6 to 8 swap
08-01-2003, 10:50 PM
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6 to 8 swap
First off I want to say thank you for looking at my post, as I know this thread is commonly seen on these boards. I just want to start off with giving my reason for not going out and buying a 305 or 350 right away.
The car is an 1989 Firebird 2.8 5 speed. It was given to me by my uncle, the original owner, as a birthday present as long as I promised to keep it in the family. The body, and interior are in absolute mint condition.
I've been doing a lot of research into this, about the difficulty, and cost. Some people say it's worth it, some don't. I have a few simple questions that weren't either asked, or answered all to completely through the other threads.
They sell used 350 TPI motors on ThirdGenResource.com. I was wondering if anyone had any information on these motors, along with the honesty and loyalty to the customer. Do these engines come complete? I know you need to change a lot over, power steering pump, brackets, fan, starter, etc. but from the picture it looks as if many of those items are there already. I was wondering if it was true to the picture or not. And if it isn't, couldn't I goto a junkyard and remove all of the parts from a 350 F-body and simply put them into mine?
Also, another issue is the suspension. Some posts said to change the whole suspension, others said just the front coil springs. I would imagine changing only the front coil springs. Will these springs match up, or is more required?
And the T-5 transmission. I know for an automatic you have to change the transmission, but since the car is 5 speed, couldn't I keep the same transmission? I read that you could, but that you can't be to rough with it.
And also the rear end, any information on that? Is it the same? Is it different?
And lastly, I was wondering if anyone knows if there's a tech article somewhere that tells you how to go about and do this? I have enough mechanical knowledge to do this, along with the help from my father, yet I don't want any surprises, as we all know surprises and cars NEVER work, unless someone surprises you with a brand new Corvette.
Well thank you for taking the time to look at my simple post. I look forward to reading the responses.
The car is an 1989 Firebird 2.8 5 speed. It was given to me by my uncle, the original owner, as a birthday present as long as I promised to keep it in the family. The body, and interior are in absolute mint condition.
I've been doing a lot of research into this, about the difficulty, and cost. Some people say it's worth it, some don't. I have a few simple questions that weren't either asked, or answered all to completely through the other threads.
They sell used 350 TPI motors on ThirdGenResource.com. I was wondering if anyone had any information on these motors, along with the honesty and loyalty to the customer. Do these engines come complete? I know you need to change a lot over, power steering pump, brackets, fan, starter, etc. but from the picture it looks as if many of those items are there already. I was wondering if it was true to the picture or not. And if it isn't, couldn't I goto a junkyard and remove all of the parts from a 350 F-body and simply put them into mine?
Also, another issue is the suspension. Some posts said to change the whole suspension, others said just the front coil springs. I would imagine changing only the front coil springs. Will these springs match up, or is more required?
And the T-5 transmission. I know for an automatic you have to change the transmission, but since the car is 5 speed, couldn't I keep the same transmission? I read that you could, but that you can't be to rough with it.
And also the rear end, any information on that? Is it the same? Is it different?
And lastly, I was wondering if anyone knows if there's a tech article somewhere that tells you how to go about and do this? I have enough mechanical knowledge to do this, along with the help from my father, yet I don't want any surprises, as we all know surprises and cars NEVER work, unless someone surprises you with a brand new Corvette.
Well thank you for taking the time to look at my simple post. I look forward to reading the responses.
08-01-2003, 10:54 PM
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One more quick thing, I was wondering if anyone has done this and could give me the approximate cost and time it took to do this. I'm putting it away for the winter starting around next week and that's when I plan to start this.
08-07-2003, 12:43 AM
#4
You do not need to change the whole suspension. However higher end Trans-AMs usually have a few better components that are worth the effort also. Like swaybars and steering box are sometimes better. It is possible to have the better suspension on your car from the factory also. It is not unheard of to have WS6 on a 6 or even a 4 cylinder car.
But you do not *need* to change anything but the front coils.
The transmission can be kept. But you do need the flywheel off of a V8 which you will not find off of a 350 car. Only a 305 car. 350's were never shipped with T-5s.
You however must change the bell housing as they are different between V-6 and V-8 cars. The V-8 bellhousing as I understand it are harder to come by. I hope this answers your questions.
I know I didn't answer the cost question but I would imagine it would be quite high. I know to do a simple V-8 to V-8 swap can cost $700.00 or so. With all the other things that need to be swapped out the cost could go higher than the car is worth. Keep this in mind. I just do not have exact figures for you. I would suggest that you do this yourself. Get the tools. Check on this site as any question you need to and go slowly. You can do this it's not as hard as you would expect. Nothing mechanical generally is. You just have to think it through and have the tools.
Also you may need the radiator from the V-8 car also. There has been a debate about the later model V-6 cars getting the same radiator. But the early ones did not. So you may need that also. Hope this helps.
But you do not *need* to change anything but the front coils.
The transmission can be kept. But you do need the flywheel off of a V8 which you will not find off of a 350 car. Only a 305 car. 350's were never shipped with T-5s.
You however must change the bell housing as they are different between V-6 and V-8 cars. The V-8 bellhousing as I understand it are harder to come by. I hope this answers your questions.
I know I didn't answer the cost question but I would imagine it would be quite high. I know to do a simple V-8 to V-8 swap can cost $700.00 or so. With all the other things that need to be swapped out the cost could go higher than the car is worth. Keep this in mind. I just do not have exact figures for you. I would suggest that you do this yourself. Get the tools. Check on this site as any question you need to and go slowly. You can do this it's not as hard as you would expect. Nothing mechanical generally is. You just have to think it through and have the tools.
Also you may need the radiator from the V-8 car also. There has been a debate about the later model V-6 cars getting the same radiator. But the early ones did not. So you may need that also. Hope this helps.
08-07-2003, 01:03 AM
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what happened, you get tired of your other post on this subject???LOL.
As stated before, you could reuse the T-5 tranny but you WILL have to change the bellhousing to a V-8 version, sorry but theres no way around it !!!!!
the rear end is basically the same from motor to motor with the exception of the gear ratio, this is where you may be fortunate, the V-6's usually came with a little better gear than most of the V-8's, check under the back of the car and count the bolts holding the cover on and also look for the little metal tag hanging from one of these bolts which should have the ratio stamped on it. theres a slight chance you got the B/W 9 bolt, if so, consider your self lucky.
the front springs should be changed to V-8 springs but that is no that difficult or expensive.
as far as motors go, there are many,many choices out there, the first question is, do you have to worry about emmisions? if so, the job just got alot more difficult. aside from a few bolt on accessories nothing will swap to the V-8 nor will the computer or wiring harness work. here are just a couple of options for ya:
1). get a COMPLETE used motor from someone you trust, if emmisions allow go for a carbed setup and ditch the computer all together, there will be a little more work getting some minor stuff to work right but I think it would be lots easier than trying option #2.
2). get a COMPLETE used motor from someone you trust with the COMPLETE fuel injection system including the computer, harness, sensors etc,etc,etc,etc,
to go with option #2 I would try to find a V-8 donor car and buy it, then strip all the parts you need and put in your body, there are too many parts needed for this swap (#2) to list them here and for you to hope to find piece by piece. if you look around you can find a good V-8 car that has been wrecked or is rusted out for not alot of coin. the 350 cars are harder to come buy but the 305's are plentifull, if you could find a good running 350 car with a 5 speed for less than $2000.00 you will be money ahead to buy it and strip it for parts for the swap.
As stated before, you could reuse the T-5 tranny but you WILL have to change the bellhousing to a V-8 version, sorry but theres no way around it !!!!!
the rear end is basically the same from motor to motor with the exception of the gear ratio, this is where you may be fortunate, the V-6's usually came with a little better gear than most of the V-8's, check under the back of the car and count the bolts holding the cover on and also look for the little metal tag hanging from one of these bolts which should have the ratio stamped on it. theres a slight chance you got the B/W 9 bolt, if so, consider your self lucky.
the front springs should be changed to V-8 springs but that is no that difficult or expensive.
as far as motors go, there are many,many choices out there, the first question is, do you have to worry about emmisions? if so, the job just got alot more difficult. aside from a few bolt on accessories nothing will swap to the V-8 nor will the computer or wiring harness work. here are just a couple of options for ya:
1). get a COMPLETE used motor from someone you trust, if emmisions allow go for a carbed setup and ditch the computer all together, there will be a little more work getting some minor stuff to work right but I think it would be lots easier than trying option #2.
2). get a COMPLETE used motor from someone you trust with the COMPLETE fuel injection system including the computer, harness, sensors etc,etc,etc,etc,
to go with option #2 I would try to find a V-8 donor car and buy it, then strip all the parts you need and put in your body, there are too many parts needed for this swap (#2) to list them here and for you to hope to find piece by piece. if you look around you can find a good V-8 car that has been wrecked or is rusted out for not alot of coin. the 350 cars are harder to come buy but the 305's are plentifull, if you could find a good running 350 car with a 5 speed for less than $2000.00 you will be money ahead to buy it and strip it for parts for the swap.
08-07-2003, 12:19 PM
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Thanks a lot guys. I do have the money for this, and the car has a lot of monumental value to me, so it's not about the worth of anything at all. And I have a lot of time and all the tools in the world to do this. Hopefully the air tools will help out a lot. Plus my father who's done engine swaps up the ***. (Total gear head in his younger days) I just want to do the majority of it myself and when I run into problems I'll see what he can do.
Okay so I need V-8 coil springs, a v-8 bellhousing... out of a 305 or a 350? Probably doesnt matter, and a 305 flywheel. Gotcha. I'll go look at this local j/y that has quite a few beat up and smashed IROCs and T/As. My uncle also works for a sign company and they have a lot of chrome pipes and such, so he said he could fabricate a full exhaust set for me, and he knows how because he did it before for the same car, which was his previously. Except this time I want bigger pipes, and side pipes! There is no emissions in CT so I dont have to worry about that. Well thanks again guys.
Oh yeah, I counted the bolts and theres 9. I dont see no tag though.
Okay so I need V-8 coil springs, a v-8 bellhousing... out of a 305 or a 350? Probably doesnt matter, and a 305 flywheel. Gotcha. I'll go look at this local j/y that has quite a few beat up and smashed IROCs and T/As. My uncle also works for a sign company and they have a lot of chrome pipes and such, so he said he could fabricate a full exhaust set for me, and he knows how because he did it before for the same car, which was his previously. Except this time I want bigger pipes, and side pipes! There is no emissions in CT so I dont have to worry about that. Well thanks again guys.
Oh yeah, I counted the bolts and theres 9. I dont see no tag though.
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08-08-2003, 03:02 PM
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Hey good news guys, I got both a mint condition 305 flywheel AND a 305 bellhousing for $25 at a local junkyard. They had them sitting there out and everything. How's THAT for luck?
:lala:
:lala:
08-13-2003, 12:59 AM
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Car: 85 Z28
Engine: POS 305
Transmission: 700r4
I had A 82 camaro that came with a 2.8 and a 200 metric tranny and I swapped a 350 and a TH350 in it you do not have to change any of the springs or anythin
08-13-2003, 08:09 AM
#10
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I was under the impression that the input shaft on the V6 T-5 was different from the V-8, henceforth the problems guys on the Transmission board have been having with using a V-6 trans with a V-8 swap.
If interested, I've got a V-8 T-5 bellhousing sitting in the shop right now. It's not going anywhere, let me know if you'll need it.
If interested, I've got a V-8 T-5 bellhousing sitting in the shop right now. It's not going anywhere, let me know if you'll need it.
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