Starting to gather paRTs for my swap.. I was wondering will sfc's support all the tourge and power in my 89 rs?? I have ttops and can hear it streasing all the time should i do anything else so i dont twist up my frame?? Also any suggestions on setup .... which turbo cam exe. thanks for the help!!

 

SFC's will do the trick

As far as mods go, I'd get the motor in first...then mod after you get everything squared away. Are we talking about a buick turbo 3.8?

 

yeah im talking about the grand national motor.. hey u did the swap?? how hard was it changing the wiring and computer and what did it entail??

 

Well I was fortunate enough to snag a TTA motor along with the harness.

The swap isn't that hard, pretty straight forward.

If you use a GN motor and the GN heads you have to ditch the AC unless you want to get into some custom work. You can use the manifolds and crossover pipe but a custom downpipe or a TTA downpipe needs to be used. As far as the motor mounts are concerned I've heard people using GN mounts but don't quote me on that. The GN wiring harness can be used but you'd have to splice it in with your stock harness which can be a real PITA.

Trans wise...you can use whatever, I'm running a 7004r with TCI's adapater plate that allows you to bolt a chevy bolt pattern trans to a BOP motor. Whatever you do don't even think about a stick(though people will still argue that because they are clueless).

If you have any specifics post 'em up

 

i'm clue lett....fill me in.

 

The GN motor isn't a high revver..in stock form you don't want to rev it past 5K really..it's much like a TPI motor with it's power band...

Everytime you shift(unless you powershift) you loose boost. Also you can't build boost at the line without some work...

Plus, the idea of a T5 behind a torque monster like that isn't a good one lol.

People on other boards on this site still argue with me about it. Hell EVEN GM did it and they scrapped the idea. Everyone that agrues with me I tell them to go over to the buick boards and tell them a stick will work better than an auto and see the responses lol

I'm sure with enough $$ it could be made to work..but is it really worth it?

Then comes the issue where people tell me that a GN motor will build boost in neutral or park but just revving it :sillylol:

 

Also 89RS-T

Check out these boards


www.turbobuick.com

www.turbobuicks.com

www.gnttype.org

 

ok i know i cant use the gn motor mounts the stick up to far and i have to get 3.1 fwd heads. also i actually have to splice in to the old harness??? i dont have to change the computer??? how is the waste gate and boost controlled?? or do i chande to a gn harness and comp? also will my gauges all hook up to the gn motor and harness?? thanks i am goin to be needing alot of help on this i wanna do it right the first time!

 

yeah you'll need the GN computer as well. Also as far as the heads go..you have to change pistons too.


Yeah to use the GN harness and your gauge cluster you're going to have to cut and splice. You might be better off biting the bullet and finding someone that will sell a TTA harness(probably around $400)

 

well if i find a tta harness do i need a tta computer?? and if i do do the gn harness? can i just make a custom dash with some auto lite gauges?

 

not sure about the GN harness and a custom dash

the TTA and GN computer is the exact same part

 

so all i need i\s a tta harness and it will plug right in??

 

yes, the only thing you'll need to switch out is the tach for a V6 tach or I believe you can swap out the resistors. I just bought a big tach and covered the stock tach with it...I don't trust the stock one after the swap..no way am I going to be shifting where I am and not know exactly where the RPM's are at(if you over rev a turbo buick baaaaaaad things happen)

 

ok cool and then i can use either comp.. gn or tta.. im told that i can buy an aftermarket tta harness from a local gn builder i met. I am awaiting the magizine to see if its possible! But when i switch out the harness... does it just plug into the fire wall?? and what wiring under the dash do i have to change out.

 

it plugs in just like normal. You don't have to change any under the dash wiring

so you know a guy thats reproducing a TTA harness?? How much do you think he's gonna be asking for one?

 

not sure i should be talking to him tonight!! but if i cant get a tta hanress i have to splice into the connector at the fire wall?? also correct meif im wrong.. with a tta computer it will plug directly in under the dash of my camaro?? but with a gn comp. i would have to splice into it?? if so whats different about the tta harness??

 

the computers are the exact same thing, no difference

the GN harness is a lot different, it doesn't have a tach, oil pressure gauge, all that stuff like a fbody does

 

ok so if i make an auto meter gauge i could use the gn harness with out splicing naything??

 

not quite sure...I'm not running aftermarket gauges(aside from the tach) with a GN harness...I have the TTA harness

 

he has a GN motor ready to go eh?

here are a few websites, have him read up on the motor


www.turbobuick.com

www.turbobuicks.com

www.gnttype.org

 

what about if you had an auto with like as 4500 stall

 

what about it?

 

Right, at idle, there will be vacume. By increasing exhaust pressure by revving the motor, the turbo spools up and creates intake pressure. Thus the motor is out of vacume. Unless the turbo has a wastegate controlled by the gear shift/clutch it is pressurizing the intake air. Like he said, a 4500 stall converter. The motor will rev up to near 4500 w/o transmitting a majority of the power, allowing the turbo to spool up and generate intake air pressure. To me this makes logical sense, and I am a logical thinker, please, show me the flaw in this, as I can see none

 

1) the turbo has absolutly NO CLUE if the engine is under load, there is nothing hooked up to the turbo to tell it if the engine is under load or not.

 

It's about physics...no more than that...it has nothing to do with the turbo "knowing" anything. It's about pressure, engine load...the velocity of the exhaust gases along with the mixture and temp of said exhaust gasses...

 

Leave you guys alone for JUST A MINUTE... sheesh.

Hmmm.... I think turbo cars dont provide much if anything as far as boost in neutral or park.

 

Geesh this post is horrendous.

 

Flaw: The throttle isnt wide open.

Guys, I have edited out all the 'useless' responses. Those would be the ones that do not pertain to the original posters' question, about installing a 3.8 turbo regal motor in a F-body. Stick to the subject please, or get edited out.

 

Well since you are basically duplicating a TTA I can tell you that the T-Tops will be fine with SFC's. You haven't posted what aftermarket parts you plan to add to the stock Turbo6. If you are planning to use the stock intercooler and turbo, the factory cam will be just fine. These turbo6 engines don't gain nearly as much as the V8's from a cam swap. Guys are running into the 10's with the stock cam and also the stock throttle body. Another big misconception is rear gears. You will want something between 2.73 and 3.43 for a ratio. Anything more and you will have to shift into 4th or run taller tires to get the performance you want. The more info you give us about what parts you have the easier it is to answer your questions. HTH

And you will definately want either a 700R4 with an adapter plate or a 200-4R with a modified crossmember. Don't even think about a stick unless you only plan on running the silverstate classic.

 

What is it you didnt understand about posting about the original subject only?

Any further responses and you will end up on probation.

 

ok i got my block . i have a local guy heleping me withthe build. i dont know what to use for a setup yet.. I know that i am taking the block trw pistons .30 over fwd heads and gn turbo crank and stock rods to a macine shop in orlando fl. 1,200 bucks in machine work to be done on block and heads. I want to be running mid tens. i dont know of any mid ten daily driven ttas with ttops. oh course i intende on having a manual boost controll to turn her down when driving on the street.. i am trying to keep the project at 6 grand. i want to run on pump gas also. i am thinking about a alcy system that kicks in when only at certain throttles?? what do u think and can i do all this with a stcok appering camaro?? gotta love a sleeper 6 banger smokin some 5.0 and then sopme all day long and gettin 27mpg hahaha thanks for all the healp guys. Also found out i cant get a harness from capers for about 600 bucks. But caspers also sells all connections for gm so im thinking i can get a gn harness and " splice it" but with all the right connectors so it looks like it belongs!!alos can i use the compressor i have on my 89 for my ac or will i have to change this also ?? thanks for the help

 

you talking 6K for just the motor or 6K for everything? even 6K for just the motor is pushing it....6K for everything is comical..there is no way in hell.

If you really want to go that fast you're gonna need billet main caps and a girdle.

To hell with those manual boost controllers...do it right and spend the $$ on an electronic one. Also be prepared to spend upwards of $800 or so just on the turbo if you want to go that fast. Running those times on pump gas will only be achieved if you run an alcky setup.

 

well the whole project is going to cost 6g 2and a half for the trans i have a rear end.. oh by the way what rear is in the ttas?? and canit handle tens?? Thanks to a local friend of mine i will be able to complete the motor for 3 grand... (he has most of the parts in his gargae and is going to help me out with the price.. !!! Lucky me. i do intend on gogin with an alchy setup local guy here in fl has just designed one thats going throught testing now and i maw purchase that setup if it goes as planed. PLease keep it coming i need all thge feedback i can get and suggestions exe. Also what are the requerments for roll bars at the track for a mid ten second car?

 

OK, I think you need to adjust your goals. 10's on pumpgas and alky will require more parts and money than you are planning to spend. Also remember that with TRW pistons and FWD heads that you will have 9.3:1 compression ratio.

I am assuming if you plan to go at least into the 11's that you are going to have a 3" DownPipe no cat and a dump ($600). For 11's you will need a minimum of a TA-49/TE-44 turbo, but if you are looking for 10's then look at the TE-45a ($1100). Dont forget injectors, you will need 50lb/hr injectors for mid 11's and probably 57-63lb/hr injectors for 10's ($400-600 +$150 for modded ECM) plus a serious fuel pump setup ($250+?). A Front Mount InterCooler will definately make it easier also ($1000) but a larger stock location IC would be the minimum ($700).

This is just the begining, as you will need slicks to get any traction, a tranny that will hold it, a good torque converter stalled around 3600-3800.

So let us know what you already have and we can give you a realistic goal t oset once you get to the track.

P.S. Don't forget you will need plenty of seat time also.

P.P.S. If the local guy you are talking about is Julio (Razor) then definately listen to him about Alky and buy his Progressive Alky Controller as it will be a million times easier to tune.

 

$3K for a motor that is capable of mid 10's? I'd be skeptical man, honestly. It takes A LOT to get into the 10's. On top of what 1badTTA stated you're gonna need billet main caps(upwards of 400+ if you do all of them) a girdle(a few hundred plus machine work)...the pistons like 1badTTA said are probably gonna bump your compression up.

The intercooler is a big thing...you're also gonna need a lot of tuning...not to mention if you can't find an orginal GM MAF you're gonna have to go with a LT1 or LS1 MAF and a translator or translator plus(another few hundred). Between the turbo,injectors/tuning and the intercooler you're looking at over 2 grand just right there.....suddenly that 3K isn't looking so good. Not trying to sound like an ***...just giving you some facts(just saying that in case I came off as an ******* in that last statement).

11's are pretty easy to hit with a small budget..once you start getting into the low 11's and faster it starts to really get expensive.

and on a side note Julio's alchy kit is gonna be beautiful. After I run what I want to run on pump gas I think I might pick up his kit

TE60+alchy=WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

Also, what trans are you planning on running?

 

heres the thing i have a guy whos name i will not expose do to request that has 90% of the stuff i need minus block and machine work.. he onws a 10sec gn and says that with the stuff i have plus u getting a tranny done we can do this for 6g! but i mean it all depends on what happens im doing little by little. if it cost more then ill save more i want and will have a ten second third gen camaro with a six cylender 3.8t. what do u guts think totaly cost on mid 10's will cost motor fuel trannny rear every thing give me a guess . a i know machine work is going to cost 1,200 bucks my contact has a macinest that will do it for me thanks for all the help

 

What trans do you plan on running???

 

I already put in my $.02. I would guess around another 25% of what I said as it wasn't an all inclusive, just the basics that cost the most. For example, my TTA runs 12's at 111mph. It is nearly stock and would cost around $4000-$5000 to get it reliably into the high 10's. I also have a running car to start with and most of the simple $50-$150 items including Direct Scan ($250+ a laptop) for tuning. I could pretty easily get my car to run mid 11's for around $1000 (injectors, chip, and Turbo either TE-44 ot TA-49).

I will let you look at the numbers and decide for yourself how you want to go about this. If your heart is set on 10's and you don't have the cash to lay out for it at the moment, I would recomend overbuilding the engine at this time and running nearly stock, tune the heck out of it untill it wont go any faster, then spend some more money to go faster yet.

BTW, what heads are you running, if they are stock FWD heads (I think thats what you said) then they will need some serious porting to get into the 10's, and it will run you some serious bucks to get them done right.

Also, there are plenty of guys running the turbo 6's with larger turbo's, injectors, FMIC's, 3"DP's etc... and go to the track and can't even run a 13 second 1/4 mile pass to save their lives. They are the ones that put all the parts on the car when they bought it and have never raced one or tuned one. If you want to avoid being that person, I suggest you listen to the people that are trying to help you. Not trying to be an ****, just saying it the way it is. As mentioned on TB.com, you might want to choose your swap vehicle carefully. Even if it does run 10's, an '83 camaro won't be worth nearly as much as say an '87 IROC or some other F-Body that is more in demand.

 

Injectors and a 44 will get you 11's don't go spending money where it isn't needed. You don't needhogged out heads either. A fully ported exhaust runner and bowl work will do wonders for the fwd heads. Spend $1000 and get the heads done(you can step up the turbo later). No matter how big of a turbo you put on there you are not gonna move the air throught those heads period. At a certain airflow the air will just cavitate and cause reversion into the intake manifold cause a lean condition and the bottom end does not liked to be knocked at all.

Think of a cat with 9 lives every time you see more than 5* knock you take off 11% of it's life(just an example). You can check john percy's site he may still have a few set of custom forgings from Ross for the tta. To keep the compression down. Lastly at all cost i would get the lowest timing chip possible once the engine is up and running. With the extra compression it may be easier to detonate and you don't want the expense of redoing a brand new motor all over again.