rich3114

I'm trying to gather all the final parts to start assembly of my '85 Trans Am with a Ponch 455 in it. I'm running a Victor intake and 1050 Dominator. I was just wondering for those that have already done the swap, what hood would give me the clearance I need to run the carb totally under a hood. Pro-Stock style hood scoops are a NO-GO, as is having any parts of my carb out the hood. I want to run a Ram Air Hood, but was unsure of clearance, and I don't want to waste money to order the hood, if my engine won't fit under it. Any advise or pics welcome, I just want a clean install, where you can see nothing. Thanks in Advance.

Air_Adam

Shaker? lol, I dunno... i dunno how tall the engine is. You can get almost any size cowl induction hood though, so you could get one only as tall as you need.

posbird87

ram air hood? probably not tall enough though

Rockin-Iroc

I'm not sure how accurately I can answer your question, but I have a 455 engine in my 1968 Firebird, and it's a fairly tall motor. It's a little wider than a small block Chevy but not as wide as a big block. The heads are beefier than small block heads, but not as enormous as the "porcupine heads" on a big block, so power brake booster clearance should be okay. The height though is pretty tall. If you've ever seen a first gen F-body, there is a lot of room under the hood, more than a third gen. With an Edelbrock Torker II single plane intake, 1" spacer, Holley vacuum secondary carb, I have only enough room for a 2" air cleaner without any drop, or 3+" drop-type air cleaner. I think you can do it if you modify a shaker scoop, and you can probably do it if you have a cowl induction scoop, but I'm not sure what a ram air hood looks like for a third-gen.

Talk about monster power though. Your stock rear end won't last very long with this torque giant. The 10-bolt from the same era as the engine will live on street tires, but if you're bolting on slicks, you might consider a 12-bolt or Ford 9 inch. And I would recommend a TH400 BOP Trans for this big guy. If you want overdrive, Gear Vendors makes a nice OD tail housing which electronically overdrives every gear, making the TH400 a real 6-speed. And it handles 1200 lb-ft of torque.

The only thing I'd worry about is emissions. These 455's respond very well to modern cams and higher compression, (89 cc's will give you 10:1 on flat tops...consider the Edelbrock head). But if you're in a smog-**** zone, I'm not sure how well cats will clean up this motor. If you try it, let me know how that turns out.

Better get subframe connectors, or else you'll have trouble opening your doors in a year.

rich3114

Well, I haven't really said much about the swap yet, because it's all just parts right now. I live in OK, and if I was in most any other states, this car would be track only, but there is no inspection or emissions here.

The engine: 1972 Poncho 4 bolt main 455 bored .030 over. Main Caps replaced with full Billet Steel Caps. Forged H Beam Rods, Custom Ross Pistons. Full length Mega Brace, and Lazer solid cam with 310/315 adv. duration, .607 lift. 1972 7K3 Heads milled .050 for 10.5 to 1 compression, everything in them is new, and matched to the cam. Fully ported and polished, flow 260 on intake side. Indian Adventures headers and mounts for the F-Body. Victor Intake with 1050 Dominator, and a small shot of the giggle gas.

The transmission: TH350 with all the good stuff, transbrake, and 4200 stall converter.

The car: 1985 Trans Am. The car has had pretty much nothing done yet, but is stripped down to body and frame. Now that the engine is almost done, I'm ordering a 10 point cage, every frame connector that exists, new poly bushings, fully adjustable rear suspension, and tubular k member with tubular contol arms and coil-over front with all suspension components geared toward drag race. The interior will be nothing more than an aluminum dash and door panels, with a compliment of Autometer gauges and 2 race seats. I probably will put carpet it in, just to make it look better. People around here are very nosey when it comes to what you have in your car, so having no hood on it even when it's sitting outside the shop is a no-go. It's not that I'm secretive, but if you need to know, ask, and I'll tell you.

As far as the rear end goes, I am probably going to order a Moser 12 bolt, or Ford 9 inch, set up with the almost the best stuff you can find. It will be spooled at least. Gear ration is still TBD.

rich3114

Darn, looking at my last post has me depressed, it'll still be a while before I can fire up this monster and see what she's got.

flyitlikustolit

yeah, but when you do, let me know... my next engine is gonna be a 455 poncho. after all he work i put into my SBC, I'm not gonna do it again unless it's for what I REALLY wanted the first time. I'm interested to see how your poncho motor swap turns out. how's it going so far?

Rockin-Iroc

Do yourself a favor and go pick up the current copy of Hot Rod magazine. There is a comparison test of the most popular Edelbrock intake manifolds, and although the test motor is a 454 Chevy big block, you will see similar traits in any engine.

Looks like the Performer RPM is the king of torque. Even way above and beyond the regular Performer. It flat embarrasses the Torker II, even at the redline.
The Torker II was a great intake in the 70's and early 80's, and is a significant improvement over original dual plane designs, but won't hold a candle to the modern dual planes.

If I'm giving up 50 lb-ft by using the Torker II, I soon will have a very nice Torker II up for sale on E-bay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get me wrong, that 455 is SO powerful that even with this old-technology single plane, it will roast the tires at will and accelerate harder than almost anything out there. That motor on 10:1 compression honestly will give a Viper a serious run for its money.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Most of the higher hp Pontiac motors I see in the magazines are either running the Victor/ Dominator setup you mentioned, or a large (at least 850cfm) 4150 Holley on a Performer RPM. I will tell you that I seriously doubt any of the Ram Air-style hoods currently available will clear the Victor/Dominator...the RA1 style definitely won't, but I doubt the RA2 will either. I traded my RA1 for the Ra2 for my car shortly before deciding to go with a 455, and I am pretty sure the RPM will clear it. I'd like to run a Victor if possible (this isn't going to be a driver, more of a weekend toy), and my combination will be similar to yours. I refuse to run a cowl hood on mine, since it would ruin the Pontiac theme my car is going to have. Glasstek, VFN, or some of the other more race-oriented fiberglass companies might make a raised RA style hood...if they don't, I'll likely cut mine apart and add a couple inches, or buy one of the taller 4th gen hoods and adapt the scoop to a flat thirdgen glass hood. I haven't finished collecting parts for my TA, so I can't say for sure how well everything will fit, but I'll make it fit.

flyitlikustolit

LT1guy,

where in GA are you? have you tried the mounts and headers from chiefmanyhorses.com (indian adventures)? I'd like to know how they work, before i start gatehring parts. i know this won't be an EASY swap, but it can't be any harder than say, an LS1 swap. all the ponchos i see are running fat @$$ holleys on top of an eddy Performer RPM. i don't seee anyone running a torker II anymore. where did you dig up your pontiac shortblock?

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I'm in Jonesboro, but I used to live in Lawrenceville back when I worked at Year One. I haven't bought the mounts or the headers yet, but from what I understand the mounts bolt right up to the stock small block frame mounts, so that part will be easy. Pontiac header clearance is tough, but it shouldn't be any worse than an LT1 in a 4th gen. At least plug access is awesome (above the exhaust). I think it will be far easier than an LS1 swap, much cheaper, and more powerful too. I got my 455 short block and my TH400 from the Pull-A-Part on Henrico Rd in south Atlanta (just off Moreland), out of a 73 Grand Prix SJ. I have seen plenty of 455s and 400s there. I could have bought the whole motor complete for about $150, or a longblock for about $100, but since I'm only going to use the block I left the heads and manifolds and dist there. I paid about $100 for the shortblock and trans. I'll probably start mocking things up in a couple months. BTW if you need an engine builder, Kyle at Chastain in Jonesboro is awesome with Pontiacs.

private1i

Just a reply to Rocking-Iroc. Where in the world did you get a Torker II dual plane? I would love to know cuz that is one rare S.O.B Now the torker II single planes THOSE are all over the place. Now the Torker II is a sad example of a "modernized" Torker intake. The original Torker was a great manifold and was only about 20ftlbs under my Victor Jr on my 406. and that was only prevalent at higher RPM.

flyitlikustolit

I have a friend that works for yearone. I got a couple of my parts from him at the discount.

but holy crap. you just gave me some of the best news i've ever heard. in retrospect, I'm honestly wishing I'd bought a pontiac motor and tranny instead of a chevy. had I known then what i know now............. so you paid $100 for the motor AND tranny? what tranny did you get? did you see a lot of th350's/400's there? I'll go down and look in a couple weks with my first paycheck from the new job. and I'll bring a friend and some tools . what head castings should i look for? I'd like to build this engine myself. are pontiacs hard motors to build? if so, I'll call in some favors i earned during my short time as a wrench. (2yrs). but I'm looking forward to using and abusing the tools at my disposal. building a chevy motor has taught me so much, and if a lot of the ame techniques are transferrable, I'll love building this one. so when i put in the indain adventures mounts, and dop in the driveline, it should all line up... like, my driveshaft length will remain the same and everything, right? also, can i use ANY chevy parts? like my HEI distributor? i know that sounds like a dumb question, I'm just trying to figure out what can't and what CAN be re-used, or will i be parting out my chebby for a poncho. I'm looking forward to this getting rolling in a couple of weeks. thanks LT1guy!

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

i]Originally posted by flyitlikustolit [/i]
so you paid $100 for the motor AND tranny? what tranny did you get? did you see a lot of th350's/400's there? [/QUOTE]

Yes, I just disconnected everything, had them yank it out with a forklift, and drop it off for me up front. I yanked off the heads and manifolds and left them there, reattached my lift chain, and had them load it into the truck. The transmission was a short shaft Th400. BTW you can mix and match parts, they don't care...if you find a 455, but a 400 there has better heads, swap em..same for distributors, accessories, whatever. Also, the more you buy, the cheaper it seems to get...esp if you're going through the line close to closing time on a weekend!

I'm no expert on stock Pontiac head castings...call Chastain engines and ask for Kyle 770-478-7780, he'll be a big help. Pontiacs are no harder to build than any other motors, but they have their own requirements so you can't just build it like its a Chevy. Driveshaft length shouldn't change if you're sticking with the same type transmission; I'm switching from a Th700r4 to a TH400, so mine will change. None of the Chevy parts will work, except maybe your alternator, carb, the guts from your HEI (if you have upgraded it), and maybe the power steering pump.

flyitlikustolit

fair enough. I was thinking of saving up for the "Fulperformance" Edelbrock head from Rock & Roll Engineering. they seem to know what they're doing, and have lots of experience with pontiacs. I wouldn't mind scoring the heads off of another car, but I'd rather just upgrade to high flowing heads before i stick the motor in the car. I was also thinking a performer RPM, but my goal is 700+ hp on pump gas. i know that's high, but i figure, if you build it, build it well, so I'm gonna go all out. I dunno if an RPM manifold would be suitable at theat power range. i have less than 3 years til my car is emissions exempt, so I have plenty of time to save up money and parts for the swap. I was thinking of grabbing a 455 out of something, and looking for an accessory set-up off of a car to use on it, if nothing else so I'll have the right brackets. I can use the PS pump, because it's a common style pump used for many years. they only changed the resevoir design. the rest is a mystery..... but that's half the fun, right?

SOLID LIFTER

Before you buy ANYTHING from Bruce Fulper please do a search of his name and/or business name on the Performance Years message board .

Here are some trustworthy businesses if your lookin for ported E-heads:
http://www.sdperformance.com/
http://www.krepower.com/
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/

flyitlikustolit

couldn't find a whole lot... except that people seem to think he's an @$$hole. not enought to convict him, i don't think... BUT.....


do you have any suggestions? i haven't found manypontiac specialists in pontiacs except for RRE and Indian Adventures. if you have some suggestions, or personal experience with other builders, please share. I'd like all the info i can get. (i see you named a few up there, and I'm going to check them out, but i'd like some presonal references before i unload $3k or more to ANYONE.) thanks for your suggestions! keep 'em comin!

FAST RS

I know Kaufman Racing sells allot of engine parts for pontiac engines. I cant wait to get my 68 on the road with its 455.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Jim Butler Performance is also very reputable...thats who I'm buying most of my stuff from. BTW they can get your 455 to that level, or at least close to it, on pump gas. Check out the Engine Masters articles in PHR...they did very well with one of their 400-based stroker motors.

Rockin-Iroc

It isn't hard really. I really like the 455, it's a real powerhouse on only 10:1 compression. So much torque! Kind of gives you some idea of how badly the Superduty Trans Ams beat up on Camaros and Corvettes from that period.

I used a set of 6X heads that I had milled down to 89 cc's, had a 3-angle valve job done on them, hardenned valve seats installed for unleaded gas, and Edelbrock springs, Edelbrock Torker II hydraulic cam (224/234 @ 0.050") and a TII intake (which I'm going to swap for a Performer RPM). Internally, it's got stock steel rods and iron crank, but is held together a la ARP. Pistons are forged. It's got a Holley 750 carb on top with a K&N and cold air via twin hood scoops. Full length Hooker Comp headers and 2.5" mandrel bent Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust system.

One piece of advice, when you get your heads rebuilt, have PC seals installed instead of umbrella seals. I already need to have my seals replaced because they were the wrong kind.

FAST RS

What HP were u running? You have a very similar setup to what i have except i have a speed deamon 750 iske cam and it has TRW rods and pistons. Cant wait to wake up my 455 in my firebird it will be nice

Why is it that back then Olds, Pontiac, Chevy Buick etc had there own engines then they all went to the same engines around 82? I remeber my moms 79 trans am had a 403 olds in it. I jsut find it werid how it went from every one made there own to they all use the same.

flyitlikustolit

i dunno. all i know is, I found a guy who buys parts from me and he builds pontiac engines. he has an extra block, so i may snag a 455 block from him. we'll see. worst that happens is i go to the JY for a spare block... not that i mind, of course.

also, would it be better to get a TH400 or a TH350 for a 455? I found someone to literally GIVE me 2 TH400 cases. well, he'll give me one, he wants $15 for the other, and enough good parts to build a working tranny. any thoughts?

FAST RS

I ditched my th-350 and put in a Built TH-400 TH-400's are bullit proof they do not brake. I had mine rebuilt with a transgo shiftkit and extra clutches in it. One day i can drive that beast.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

While you could build a Th350 that would handle the power, it would need a lot of fairly exotic (expensive) parts. A Th400 with a few minor upgrades would be more reliable and less expensive (unless you already have a GOOD Th350) , though it will rob a little more power than the Th350. Of course, I always go for the bulletproof part first...what good is a more "efficient" transmission or rearend, when it breaks? Th400 with a 'brake and a 9" for me!

flyitlikustolit

simple enough, then. I'll be scouring for an extra block and some parts trannies in a week or so, then. wish me luck. this is gonna be fun.