I'm curious about how many people on this board have gone threw the swap and what they think of it...is it worth the hassle? Is there too many fab's to make it happen, or is it completely worth it from your point of view?
I have an '87 Gta that i am seriously considering putting an '01 Ls1 with heads/cam and nitrous in it, as well as doing a 12 bolt and all the suspension goodies, ow and a m6 swap as well.... I love the idea, and have a shop that is willing to do it, and possibly make it a sponcered vehicle. But its gonna be alot of work and alot of money.... what do you guys think that i should do in this situation? I could support the funds...but have been seriously thinking about getting an suv also. This would be cheaper and sure as hell alot more fun...and the shop could do the car while i am out in the desert....soo.... what do yall think? Would it be worth it?
thanks for your time.
-Chris

 

There is little if any fabrication required since sphon sells the necessary mounts. If you are running AC you have to notch the frame to keep the LS1 comressor. Otherwise you can buy a pulley kit that will allow you to use the thirdgen compressor. Overall the swap is well worth it. Crazy power and great mileage. Also you will save around 150 pounds in weight!

 

I finished my LS1 swap mid-Feb, been driving it since the weather got nice, no way I'd go back to TPI. This thing gets great gas mileage, pulls like a mule all the way up to 6K rpm where I shift, etc.

 

Yeah. It's unreal. The higher it revs the harder it pulls. No power drop off whatsoever. I am still not used to the 6200 redline. I instinctively still back off around 5500.

 

I havent even started it up yet and I know it is well worth it. Some people will say its not, some will say it is. Personally, I think it is. The gas mileage the LS1 gets is enough reason to do the swap.

I'm in for about 6K with my project so far. Thats counting Car, Motor (all acc. included), Tranny, Mounts, Cam and many other various parts thats not LS1 specific. Granted I'm still not done, but I dont see my budget going over 7.5K. Most of the extra 1.5K will be spent on interior parts, and some of it is going towards a 4th gen rear and a set of 4th gen. wheels and tires.

So yes, it is worth it, IMHO.

 

I've never heard anyone say its not worht it, its definatley worth it if you already have your hands on a LS1. Thier just a bit pricey right now.

 

Everyone with an LS1 will tell you it's worth every single penny......

I did it and have absolutly no regrets.....:lala: :lala: :lala:



In my opinion they are a great platform for building a really nice daily driver......

 

I am in the middle of a LS6 swap. Can't wait to get in the car. Waiting on motor mounts.

 

I am into a LS1 swap too. I may have jumped in a little deaper than most because I am getting a few things for the fresh LS1 before I drop it in. The only concerns I have is for the stock read end and getting the wiring setup 100% but so far it seems easy from looking at all post on the net.

BTW My goal is 440HP and 400+TQ. That should shut those 383 guys up. j/k Plus I will pass them at the gas pump.

 

I'll never understand this reasoning. The money you could have saved by not buying an LS1 would be more than enough for any so called gas loss you might experience.

 

Whatever helps ya feel better dude...personally I'd rather give as little as possible to Osama and his buddies.

 

Well, I think your in the wrong business if your concerned about gas milage and going fast....

 

Having it both ways is a good thing, you'll feel the same way as that LT1 settles into it's new home.

 

Haha, yea its already settled in, my engine is 100% complete. Im just saying as far as going over the stock ratings. I mean if your worried about gas milage, by a four banger. But yes its good to have but I don't think it should be that big of a factor.

 

i too think you are all nutz about the gas mileage. i had a 01 Z28 with a 6speed and 25-30 mpg is unheard of.

1st off.. the sticker on the car from the dealership(which is always OVER RATED) states 19-27mpg.. i cant remember exactly,i'll have to pull my sticker, but its no where near 27mpg unless you are going 65mph in 6th gear so the rpms are at 1800. Also you need to be using CAGS, that stupid invention that only lets you shift from 1st to 4th when you;re not nailing the throttle, its considered part of the gas savings.

2nd, who drives all conservative with an LS1 6 speed?? maybe a 50 year old lady, but then again i'd like to meet one that owns one.

3rd, the other guy is right, buy the time its all said and done, you've spent 7-8-9-10K on the swap, when an average person per year spends less than 1500$ on gas. the savings may seem instant at the pump, but dont forget you just shelled out 8 or 9k to get there...so you'll see your savings in about 4-6 years.

so really, the swap is worth it because of the power, and the power it makes with the mileage seen. BUT let me tell you, if you start modding the car with a cam and lower gears and all that, bye bye gas mileage, and you're back to TPI mpg.

do some real research and check it out. i have a TPI and had an LS1, yes the gas mileage on the LS1 is better, but if you drive it like you are going to, dont use this as a reason for the swap. get an LT1 and save some big cash.

 

Its gonna get way better mileage than my old carbed 350. If you can build a 383 Stroker thats FI all by yourself (no machining, assembly, etc...), and stay under 3K counting tranny and all acc., then maybe thats the route for you. I know I couldnt.

You could do this swap for 4K with the right platform to start with. Mine however, is a totally different story. No interior, peg legged rear, V6, etc...


I dont know what you call "REAL", but I have done plenty of it.



Why not? Maybe not the sole reason, but it is a good reason.

 

My LS1 with 3.23 gears and an auto got 22 mpg on the highway stock. That was back when it only ran 13.2@106. My 94 LT1 6 speed barely gets 20 mph on the highway and it just ran a 13.9@102 last weekend. Compare this to my 305 which gets 22 mpg combined street and highway mileage. The gas savings are definitely not something that should even be considered.

 

GPS verified baby. Sure I was babying it along in 6th gear on fairly flat road, but it's more accurate than a car odometer.


Do some real research, CAGS disabling is cake.


I do when it suits me, like long road trips. You need to do some real research.


Not much over $6K gross outlay here, and that's before I sold off my L98 and TPI stuff...net cash outlay is in the $1200 range in my case. But I did the work myself so no labor $$, just time. You need to do some real research.


As shown above, you need to do some real research...quit posting your opinion poorly disguised as fact. You need to find a better way to feel OK about your car and the decisions you've made.

 

ahhahahahha man you guys...

"do some research" is all you said, i OWNED this engine and tranny... i think im qualified to speak about it, unlike other people who have yet to drive their car with this engine.

anyways, YES i know cags is easy to disable duh, i was stating that YOU NEED TO USE THIS FEATURE IN ORDER GET THE MPG YOU ARE BOASTING ABOUT GETTING!!

thats why GM put it in, as a gas saver(can we say duh again? yes we can)

yep, the only way you get 22-28 mpg IS road trips, or extended freeway driving.. so how often do normal people do road trips? you're going to get a real awakening when you start calculating your mpg in the city, especially in stop and go traffic. granted its better than a 3rd gen engine.

oh and not all people are doing this swap all by themselves, my comment was not directed to those people. take FLYNLOW, spent 10k on it, "IF" his reason was gas mileage, it was a poor choice, BUT since it wasnt, then power to him. Im saying dont get caught up in the gas mileage like its the next best thing since sliced bread.

i would bet 9 out of 10 people that swap in an LS1 are not going to drive conservative and be gas concious.

"i need to feel better about the decisions i have made"???
ahahhah the hell are you talking about? and what decision is that may i ask? i dont recall i ever mentioned a decision i made or even postulating one.

i think you really need to go back and read what i said, because your comment about cags to me was lame, i wasnt saying you cant disable it, i was saying GM put it in for a reason, reason is gas saving.

6k hu? k fine its going to cost you 6k, so if you spend 1500$ a year in gas, you'll start saving money on gas in 2008. oh and not every LS1 swap costs the same if you havent noticed.

instead of barking at me, try to understand some ones post before you run your mouth and accuse me of not knowing what im talking about. I've had an LS1 since 97 when they first came out for the 98 model year camaro.

 

I'm gonna take the opinion of everyone who is saying that gas mileage on the LS1 isn't beyond great. I have only heard people talking and speculating about the 30mpg city and all this stuff. But my old friend owned a 03 Z06 which had the MPG display. He got into it a couple of times, but he was a rich ***** and didn't want to "hurt his baby". (18 years old and doesn't know what the throttle is for ) Anywho, when he drove around town all conservatively, staying under about 3K all the time, he only averaged about 16-18mpg city, on a BRAND NEW car. My 305 TBI auto got at least 18 city when I babied it. So yeah, the technology used in the LS1 will allow it to go further on less, gas and power wise. But I assure you, hardly anyone is going to be doing the swap do to the great gas mileage they will get when they are burning the **** out of everything on the street.

Back to the original question though, there's little fab work to be done. You used to have to notch the Kmember for the ac bracket, but take a look at FLYNLOW's LS1. The guys at thirdgenresource did it right and made a bracket so the Kmember doesn't have to be notched, so really there's hardly any fab work necessary.

 

Here is the bottom line....

If you are looking for the cheapest way to get horsepower.......Well then an LS1 is NOT for you....

 

I ran thru the gears on the on-ramp, drove ~180 miles in 6th gear, then pullled off and gassed up. CAGS is irrelevant, just like you and your opinion.

 

Was that one a whole tank, the 180 mile trip? How many gallons?

 

On the road trip back from North Carolina when i picked up my car, I got an average of 31.7 mpg with my LS1 in 6th gear going about 75-60 mph

 

Can you use a T5 with an LS1? I want to go LS1 but I don't have the money to do everything at once. This is the order I was thinking of:

LO3 to LS1
Suspension mods
3.08 to 3.73 (I already have posi, dunno specifics though)
T5WC to T-56

 

dude don't be a tard.

not everyone drives NOTHING but freeway, 95% of us do atleast 1/4 of our driving in the city where CAGS DOES HELP!!!

so unless you live right off the freeway, work right off the freeway, and everywhere else you go is right off the freeway, then CAGS is relevant, unlike your opinion.

 

If you're going to try to argue with me, at least do a decent job of it there ace...

 

I have a question about fitting it in the engine bay. If you have a tubular K-member will the compressor fit. or do you still have to modify it.

 

alright chief

 

$1.80/gallon = GAS PRICE

15,000 AVG yearly miles / 19 (LS1 mileage)
789.47 gallons of gas
$1,424.04

15,000 AVE yearly miles / 14 (TPI mileage)
1071.42 gallons of gas
$1,928.57


TOTAL savings of improving gas mileage with an LS1 over the course of 15,000 miles.....

$504.52


Not arguing, just providing some facts for this arguement.......It seems the LS1 swap is met with alot of criticism on these boards......

 

Where in the world do you get 14 from? And almost 32 mpg. You're full of crap.

 

Wow, facts and your using 14 mpg on a TPI. I think the average is actually close to 16-17mpg. I've seen a few posts on here of people getting 19-21 city driving.

 

I have a LS1 with over 500 rwhp and get roughly 22-24 miles per gallon.

Last time I drove my 305 I got 100 miles to a Tank.

From 305 Carb to Ls1/6 gas mileage is a rough advantage.

It might not me on a fuel injected car.

 

You guys, this was a "is it worth it?" post, not a "should I do it to get great gas mileage" post. Seriously, we all want to go fast, and we all know that going fast and getting good gas mileage don't go hand in hand, period. The technology in the LS1 allows you to go faster with a little more economy, but still, it allows you to go faster and that's all that should matter. Going from 14's to 12's or 11's (possibly) with just an engine swap is well worth it IMO, regardless of gas mileage.

 

You might run 12's NA after a LS1 swap. assuming the engine is completly stock you'll be lucky to see high 12's. 11s are out of the question until the heads come off, or a power adder goes on.

As far as the swap being worth it. I think if you can find a good deal on the donar engine, if you can do the work yourself, and if you can afford the down-time for your car while you work out all the kinks, then yes its well worth it. Esspecailly for daily-drivers.

But I do think people should relax on the gas mileage thing, it doesn't get ungodly gas mileage. The "insane" highway mileage it gets is due to the 6-speed transmission with the .5/1 6th gear. That is proven by the LT1 and L98 owners with 6th speeds pulling in almost the same highway mileage. and so what it gets 19 a gallon in the city. i get 15 a gallon in the city with a carbed 350. and if i had CAGS, or shifted like i had it, i could probably pull down a couple more miles per tank.

So I've said it before, the LS1 isn't magic.

 

Looking past your inability to spell beyond the 5th grade level, you're wrong again there ace. Here's one running high 11's with the heads having not been lifted:

http://www.speartech.com/track.html

 

Not saying your not right since he failed to mention getting into the 11's without a cam. But that guy did put a pretty big cam into the Ls1. Still thats damn good for just a cam to go in and your in the 11's. He is also running stickies on a pretty big stall, I wouldn't call that street .

 

That's actually a tiny cam by LS1 standards...these guys have a different way of thinking when it comes to cams. 0.580" and up, 230deg and up...some even at 0.600" running hydraulic roller lifters. Crazy.

I used to think my HOT cam was big, now I'm running a 0.563" 224 cam and it's on the small end of the scale.

 

What, did i spell 2 words wrong? I type about 80 wpm, and usually don't care to fix my typographical errors. It's simply not that important to me. Ease up on the internet ego dude. Does ripping on other people make you feel better about yourself?

 

Nope, but calling out bad information from people who don't know what they're talking about is good for giggles...

 

Cant we all just get along.

This thread started nice, and ive read almost every post. But , the last few of them have been uninformative.

 

Here's FACT about gas mileage comparisons.

'98 LS1/Auto (Current car) gets about 24-25 MPG on long road trips...about 19 MPH mixed highway/suburbia driving. ran 13.8's in the 1/4.

'91 L98/Auto (prior car) - got about 23-24 MPG on a long road trip and about 18-19 MPG mixed highway/suburbia driving. ran 14.3's in the 1/4.

I'm sure the 6-speed LS1 cars with the double overdrive will get better mileage - so would an L98 with a 6-speed strapped to it.

whether or not the swap is "worth it" is an individual decision.

 

Well I say if you got the cash, the swap is definatley worth it. Its not much different from an lt1 swap. The hardest part of the whole swap is on your wallet.

 

I just used 14mpg for a comparison, I figured an average gas mileage difference of 5 mpg.........14 to 19, 15 to 20.......and so on

As for almost 32 mpg on the highway.....I keep track of my fuel mileage on road trips and yes i did, not gonna start an internet arguement trying to prove to someone that i did in fact get almost 32 mpg with my LS1/T56

Want to say i'm full of crap go ahead, makes no difference to me......

 

exactly what i was getting at.

 

Getting 32 MPG on the highway in sixth gear is not hard to believe, i've heard of people getting 34-35 going in sixth. Its not so much the engine but the giant double overdrive on the t-56. Can't wait to use mine .

 

Wow that was the most time I have ever wasted reading a post! Why do you guys come on here and bash the LS1 guys? Are you feeling left out that you are not willing to put a butt load of work into your cars? Are you feeling a little short in a certain area?
So why did I go with an LS1?
1. To be different!
2. To have a car that not that many people are willing to build.
3. The newer Camaros are butt ugly.
4. Run times that a super charged 305/350 could only dream of.
5. Gas friendly compaired to a carb setup.
6. They pull like hell on the top end. Lets see a TPI setup do that.
7. Make my baby faster than my everyday driver. 93 Stealth R/T TT
8. Put the slap down on 98% of all cars on the streets in my area!
9. I like high tech things and the LS1 is that.
**10. Build a car that puts a on my face!!!!!!! I never did care how other people felt about it. :P

""Plus I will pass them at the gas pump." I'll never understand this reasoning. The money you could have saved by not buying an LS1 would be more than enough for any so called gas loss you might experience."

Well at least that money isn't going to the "people" that tax the hell out of us!! F them!! Besides I said it was a plus and not the number one reason.

Hi my name is "Ryan " and I am addicted to performance cars and building them!
^ That is the main reason!! Some of us like fast cars and others like to build them. I am sure some of the non believers will have a change of heart if they ever ride in one of these hybrids. :hail:

 

Ummmm, no one is bashing the ls1, the debate is "is it worth it" some people are making the point that you can get more power just building a Traditional GEN 1 SBC for quite a bit less than what you would pay to swap in a LS1 and it seems one of the arguments agaisnt that was for the gas milage.

Now as far as you saying people not putting a buttload of work into thier car, your too damn quick to assume, i've been working on my LT1/T-56 combo for quite a bit and didn't have anyone do it for me. So rather than say your wasting your time, your wasting ours by not reading the entire thread.

 

Double post....

 

I'm not bashing the LS1, I just don't consider it the holy grail of engines like some people do. Its a great motor, don't get me wrong, but its not what people make it out to be.

Care to put money on that one.

TPI wasn't designed to do that. Thats like asking a submarine to fly. But never the less, slap a miniram on a TPI motor and voila, It pulls like hell on the top end.

Then there's not that many fast cars in your area.

If your that concerned, buy an electric car.