Hey folks. As I'm nearing the purchase of my new (well, to me anyway) 400 ci small block, I'm looking into performance upgrades, but I have a checkbook balance that I have to adhere to. I know the stock heads are crap - So what heads should I look for? I've heard some things about vortec heads which makes me wonder, would there be any junkyard finds on vortec heads? or should I just order them new? also, if vortec heads wont work, what should I look for?

 

vortec heads COULD work, athough that limits your total lift.


since you mentioned junkyard heads, ya seem like someone who knows the value of good, used parts..

i would look for some used Iron Eagles.. you can find a assembled set of thoes pretty cheap... of course if you find any AFRs or other aftermarket alum head in your price range, go for it.

 

Vortec heads will work, you'd just need to drill the steam holes. As far as whether there's any in your local junkyard, you'll just have to go there and see. Don't utter the word "Vortec" at the yard though, if you say it, it will cost you at least a $100 fine; just tell them you need heads from (that's "from", not "for") a 97 Chevy truck with a 350.

Keep in mind that they are TRUCK HEADS, not performance heads. As they come, they have extreme garbage springs, 10-lb valves, rubber rocker arms, and so forth. You can turn them into a performance head, but by the time you do, you're up into new aftermarket head cost territory. Their advantage lies in having great intake flow for very low cost. Work with their advantage instead of fighting their disadvantages, and you can do OK.

Use a cam with a bigger exhaust lobe than intake lobe, like the Comp XE series; keep the final valve lift below .480" for certain, and preferably not much past .460". Put new springs, retainers, and rockers on them. I'd suggest Comp 1400 series rockers. You'll ned a Vortec-specific intake. Don't believe the hype about re-drilling an old-style one; "Vortec", translated from GM-ese to English, means "we moved the intake ports". Alot of older intakes won't even cover the ports, they're moved so far; and even if an older intake covers them, they won't line up, so the flow advantage is destroyed.

An actual budget number, along with some kind of HP or ET goal, would be helpful.

 

well, looking to stay in the 1,000 dollar range honestly, although like anybody who knows better, "good used" also means more money for other toys

 

$1000 for a set of heads will get you pretty close to a new set of Iron Eagles. If you're willing to spend that much, I wouldn't fool around with a bunch of junkyard stuff.

 

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...2172&pid=89535

Plus shipping, of course (probably $70-$100).

Don't know what rocker arms they include.

 

Whoohoo, exactly what I was looking for, thanks five7

 

FYI....Watch you compression ratio. You'll have to go with dished pistons.

 

yup. compression in a 400 can get real high, real quick if you arnt careful.

edit:

also, you'll probly need diffrent head gaskets then what that kit comes with.

 

I'm sure if you tell them it's for a 400 when you order, they'll throw in a set of proper gaskets.

 

well if you dont plan on getting dished pistons that would put you right at 11.51 compresion ratio with flat tops

 

unless you're running a huge chamber head, you always want a flat dish on a 400 street motor....

 

not true. I have a 22cc dish pistons in my 406 with a 64cc chamber and it's 10.5:1 approx, a flat top would have put me at the 13:1 mark almost. It's not like a 350 where you can run a flat top with a small chamber head and get away with it.

If you are looking for a good set of heads on the cheap i'd recomend checking out the protopline heads, those are the heads I am running on my engine, 220cc intake runners, 64cc chambers, 2.05/1.60 valves, good springs, studs, guide plates, for around 800 bucks. the cool thing is you can get any setup youwant for the same price.

you don't have to get a special intake for these heads like the vortecs, and these heads flow more, actually they are comparable to some of the AFR heads and are half the price.

With the 220cc heads, a hydraulic roller, 236/242 @.050, a 9.5 2800 stall, 3.23's,and dual exhaust, my car runs a very traction limited 7.8 in the 1/8 at 90.5mph, which is supposed to be 12.0 in the quarter, with my new suspension mods I hope to be 7.6's or so and a mph higher or so with my new intake. the best thing is, the car is just as streetable as my 89 T/A with 305TBI, and actually starts faster



oh, and the 7.8's were on pep boy radial tires, I'm scared to put slick's on it, it's gonne brake something, but i'd love to see low 7's. nothin but motor, nothin but motor. :lala:

 

I would stay away from Pro Topline until they get the minor problem sorted out that they're struggling with right now.... namely, continued existence.

As was said, if you run heads with a large chamber, you need to run flat-tops to keep the CR up. Conversely, if you run small chamber heads, you use pistons with a dish to put the CR back down to where it's usable. That's chamber size, which has nothing whatsoever to do with intake runner volume. They are 2 separate measurements of 2 unrelated parts of the nead, that both happen to be in cc. LilJay's heads are NOT "huge chamber; in fact they are a relatively small chamber (64cc) which is why his combo needed a dished piston.

 

Yup, the chamber's are small. I didn't know protopline was in trouble, but then again, I haven't checked, cared, or bothered to. So far, I am happy with my heads. If I could run 3 or 4 tenths faster with a better set of heads, I would be interested, if the price was right that is.

Jason

 

I believe Pro Topline has stopped casting anything, and was only shipping from stock. I think he was basically having trouble making ends meet; you know, that most fundamental business measurement, cash flow. That was a month or so ago though, things might have stabilized by now, I don't know. I wouldn't buy from them if not.

Kind of too bad; I've never used them myself, but they seemed to have a decent product at a fair price, and we need more suppliers like that....

 

Excuse my niaveness, but whats the big deal in purchasing a head that has a casting that has proven itself as near indestructable and has parts (valves, springs, etc) that are interchangable with any other head? What is the fear? There is nothing unique about the valve train. They can be bought anywhere. Appears to me the only problem would be getting a warranty on the casting and like I said, the casting has proven itself to be trouble free. Haven't heard of one single problem. Anyone using Toplines had a casting problem?

 

go read what i said and what you quoted again. and this time read what i typed, not what you assumed.






even with my 72cc heads and a felpro 1014 gasket, the compression is still high for my blower. if i had said flat top piston, my reply wouldnt have made any sense.

 

I guess I'm stupid or just completly missing something.......

 

if you use stock vortec heads and put comp beehive valve springs on them they can handle up to .500 inch lift. instead of getting rollor rockers go for a set of cranes's stamped steel 1.6 rockers.

they two items work magic for vortec heads anlong with the comp exteme energy cams

 

9:1 on my set up...runs great on pumpgas...plus waiting for a great big power adder..

 

Got me wondering too!!

Is that anything like a flat dome piston??

I've heard of flat, dished or domed pistons, but not "flat dish" - is there such a thing??

 

Me too...typo Im sure,,

 

How about Dart sportsman 2s,they are an excellent head,they give you directions for drilling the steam holes,which can be done with a hand power drill,they come assembled or bare,assembled they come with decent hardware including stainless valves,you can fit virtually any inlet manifold to them,unlike the vortecs.If you buy heads with the intent of getting them machined,you will end up getting very close to the cost of new sportsmans,i believe you may even get the ally ones for under a grand,they are certainly worth considering,the only thing i would say is that it is worth while gently going through the ports with a carbide burr,just to knock off the odd bit of casting flash.

 

Thats what I am running..the were worked on by RHS...great port work, as well as the holly intake......she screams...oh yeah!!!!

 

Dart/World sportsman 11's