LT1/T56/12 bolt with 373's. Thats the drive train, and I really want to see 350-400RWHP from it. Will an LT4 top end kit with a hotcam get me there? I really want to be closer to 400 but I am on a tight budget. I basically want that, then a 100-150 TNT shot.



P.S. Does anyone know of any good LT1 specific boards and web sites?

 

I'd really like to do the same thing. I'm guessing heads/cam/intake work could get you close to that? I dunno though... how mod/bolt-on friendly are LT1's?

 

Before that can answered, I wanna say something. 400rwhp is not going to be cheap, so this would be easier if you would have stated your current budget you have to work with. OK, now your goal is obtainable. The LT4 conversion, in my opinion and alot of others is a turd, There are alot of people, that with bolt-ons, and a cam/head work get 400+rwhp. Stock LT1 heads are a good piece, have them ported by a competant porter and they can flow 270/195 cfm. This will not be cheap to have done, but it will still be less than new heads. There are a ton of different cams that will get you to your goal w/ the aforementioned mods, but finding the "right" cam will take some work. My advice, check out the LT1 boards on Camaroz28.com, and some other places like that. There are alot of questions that are very similar to yours, and if you do a little searching there, you will find some very reputable people that do work on LT1's, and make stupid power doing it. Lloyd Elliot, and Advanced Induction are just 2 big names to search when you get there, and both have packaged deals to meet your needs. I hope that helps.

 

Agreed. From what I have heard from several reliable sources, LT4 conversions are overpriced and overrated.

Also agree that 400RWHP is certainly doable, but not cheap.

 

So assuming you get a stock LT1 to work with, how much money would it take to get the 400rwhp that he wants?

Could getting some heads worked up and a matching cam do it, or is more required?

 

Well simply put my friend is buying a 30th anniversary Z28 for 5800 bucks. It's an auto with a vigalante converter, and a 9" rear. Other than that it's all stock and he wants to make more power. His pockets are deep so I am not worried spending his cash for him (he knows NOTHING about cars) I was thinking ported LT4 heads , closest you cna get to port matched intake, and a CC306 cam. BTW, where would be the best place to get a CC306?




Now for me.... I am parting out my camaro right now. Once I get the 9" sold I am going to take a loan out for an LT1 car. I want a 97 with a 6 speed. Since i am taking the loan out I would have all the cash from parting my car to invest. I am looking at 3k solid in mods, or maybe close to 4. I know the 10 bolt will puke with some real power so no need to put that down on the list. What do you guys think I should do???



Thank you all for the help, and I will register on camaroz28.com later on today. I appreciate it guys!!!!

 

Well I can't say exactly how much it is gonna cost to obtain this goal, but it will not be cheap. Head work and a cam will not get you there alone, you will need virtually all the minor bolt-ons, for instance you will need long tube headers, a quality high flowing exhaust, 36-42lbs injectors, upgraded throttle body, a upgraded rear...etc, etc. For $3g, you will be able to do the headwork, and get a custom cam, installation, gaskets, etc, etc will add up fast. None of these prices are including Dyno-Tuning, which will be crucial with this work, a mail order tune will not suffice. I can guarentee you will either fall short w/ your goal, or spend much more than you have planned to obtain this goal. Just for your info. long tube headers and a full exhaust will run you over $1g, and dyno-tuning will probably run into at least a couple hundred bucks since most charge between $100-200 per hr., if you do some research on some LT1-LT4 boards you will find all of this info and so much more, good luck w/ you and your friends car man.

Oh, by the way.....The CC306 is no doubt a decent cam, but it is old technology, there are much better options out there. You will also find that out on the LT1 boards. Good Luck.

 

I guess I should have mentioned I have 42# injectors, a cat back, 58MM TB, 3rd gen LT headers (doubt they will fit) ORYP, and most likely a few other random parts laying around. I am not worried about Dyno tune prices since I get really really good deals at both of my local dyno's. I am not worried about labor charges either since I will do all the work my self.


As for the CC306 I see it as a proven performer and you can't really go wrong with that. I am sure as I pay more attention to LT1's I will learn more on the latest and best performaning cams on the market.



I have had an LS1 car, carbed cars, and 2 TPI cars and this will be my first venture with an LT1 car. I always like trying new things.



I am alweays up for learning and I am searching the crap out of LT1 boards right now. What are some other good cams to look at that are at a reasonable price, and pull CC306 or better results?

 

Why would you wanna go with an Lt1 car when you already had an Ls1? I think the Ls1 is a great performer to start with, but thats just me.

 

It was amazing, but having a 21k dollar bill Vs. owning a car outright that can perform jsut as well seems to make more sense.

 

ALot of guys either run the CC306, GM847, or a custom grind. I am not trying to question you, but if you don't have an 4th gen yet, how do you have a Cat-Back for one? Either way good luck w/ your goal man.

 

It's a 3rd gen catback that I am sure I can make fit easily. after all, I am parting out my thridgen.

 

My thoughts on the topic from someone who has actually done the swap...

1. LT4 Conversion, overpriced - yes; overrated - no. While 99% of the people who do the conversion will no achieve the advertised 425 hp, 400 hp at the flywheel is easily attainable. I put down 320 hp at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno = approx. 350 at the wheels on a Dynojet. This is with 0 dynotuning, only a mail order tune and some tweaking by myself. If I were to have it tuned by someone who knew what they were doing, I'm confident I could pick up another 10-15 at the wheels.

2. XJOSHX - 350-400 wheel hp is easy from an LT1. My first thought when I saw your thread title was Lloyd Elliot at www.eportworks.com. He does great work, and has 3 different packages, starting at about 370 wheel hp up to 430 wheel hp out of LT1 castings. You send him LT4 castings, and you're talking 450 at the wheels.

3. On stock LT1 heads, CC306 is about as big as you want to go. Sure, you can go bigger, but its going to take some considerable tuning work to get it running good. GM847 is an awesome cam. If some of my other plans don't work out, I'll be getting that cam along with LE porting of the heads. You add in a 383 or 396, and you're looking at 450+ at the wheels.

4. 12secformula is correct, you can't just look at the cost of your heads and cam, you need to consider all of the supporting hardware as well. But, now that I reread one of your posts, I see you have most of that stuff so that won't be much of a consideration.

I don't think you'll have too much trouble at all reaching your goals. Check out camaroz28.com's For Sale section, and you can usually pick up a CC306 or GM847 for pretty cheap, or any number of other good cams.

 

I have been reading up on AI and LE and listening to sound clips, customer testimonial, dyno numbers, and track times. Bang for the buck seems to be LE2 combo with some intake work. Maybe AI's stage one? My buddy is dead set on LT4 top end because the PO used to have an LT4 top end and nitrous and pulled 11.90's. I am still open to things, and I am always willing to learn. I also have an aeromotive A1000 fuel pump.... whats the eisiest way to use that with a stock tank? My old set up was a fuel cell with sump to filter and pump.



I guess I still have the hard part.....find the right car for me. Looking for an M6 with the newer style dash in really nice shape.

 

Can't go wrong with LE. But I always find it funny when people listen to sound clips instead of looking at numbers. If you reach your goal, you can make it sound anyway you want to. Not sure on the A1000, I'd probably mod the pickup and run it external.

Tell your buddy he can get the LT4, but if uses the Hotcam you'll be pulling him everytime. Or, on second thought, don't tell him, sounds like a great idea for him .

 

TexasLT1....you are exactly right, I must say that I was a bit closed minded about having my heads ported. Then Thirdgen.org's site died, so I had to find some other forums to read, which lead me to camaroz28.com, that is where I discovered the wonders of Lloyd Elliott and Bret Bauer's head and cam work. When I talked to Lloyd the other day, he said to try some other heads, and he will make them flow awesome and make stupid power. I trust him, and I am getting them. I'll post the flow numbers when I get them back from him, I know they will be good. His prices are very reasonable, and everyone loves his work.

XJOSHX....if your friend is hell bent on the LT4 top-end, convince him to buy the intake and heads, and have them ported by Lloyd, and have Him ge the cam made too. It will probably not be much more than the whole kit, and perform great. Lloyd has gotten around 300cfm outta those LT4 castings!! That will get your friend at 400rwhp with bolt ons, and the custom cam......think about it.

 

Exactly why if my other plans don't go so well, I will have him port mine. You could make serious power with 300 cfm heads. But I'm going to stupid power


Also, having him fully port LT4's, and with his cam, you'd have to work at it to not get 400 at the wheels.

 

Yeah thats what I am saying, When I talked to Lloyd He said we could easily make over 400rwhp w/ him porting my heads. Then I talked to Bret Bauer, and he said w/ some larger runner heads, we could make "stupid power", but we decided to go alittle milder. These mystery heads that I am gonna have ported should be at least 300cfm, most likely a good bit more. Hopefully on the bottle, w/ my mods and these heads I should be able to break 10's w/ my "highway car". But you both are on the right track in my opinion.

 

I know I know, I heard the sound clips and drooled but what else can you expect from a big cam street car???? I definitly paid more attention to times and dyno numbers than the sound....once I found a combo that seemed like it suited me I looked for sound


Here's the deal, this is my friends first car with any real power. right now it has a cat back, hot cam, and K&N filter kit. He said he wants it to be "stupid powerful" and I know 350 horse will scare the **** out of him... or at least for a while. I was thinking LT4 heads and cam him for a bit, and when he gets bored throw a CC306 in there. on another rnadom side note, do you guys find it weird his A4 smokes the tires at a 40mph roll?



For me I am looking at LE2 heads and cam with a ported stock intake from AI. That plus supporting mods should get what ever car I get going pretty good. As soon as I dyno at least 400 from what ever car I get when I get it, I will wack it with a 100 shot and see what I can run for times.





Thanks to everyone sending me in the right direction and helping me. I have learned a ton about LT1's in the last couple days. obviously I know the bottom ends on he motor but HCI..... I was a little in the dark.



Have any of you heard about the conversion on the market to ditch the optispark, and run coil packs from LS1 cars?

 

Only one totally ditches the Opti, and thats the Deltec, but you're going to spend some bucks on it. You can go LTCC if you want to, advantage to it is you take all spark energy out of the Opti and keep it for cam position. But I wouldn't switch to one of those systems unless I was running a boosted or high rpm setup. The Opti is perfectly alright for a street car.

 

I think you've got 'em backwards. The Delteq uses the optical sensor part of the opti to tell the Northstar coil packs when to fire. That is, until the Delteq II comes out, then it will completely eliminate the opti.
I'm not as familiar with the LTCC setup, but I believe that's the coilpacks right?

 

Yeah, I just checked the Delteq website. Apparently they discontinued the total replacement. I know last time I checked they offered a Stage 1 and 2, but that was a while ago. There doesn't seem to be anything on their website about the II now.

 

And what about LT1 edit? How does that work? Programmer does your computer or you get your own laptop, cable, software and run it your self? I know when I had LS1 edit done to a car they jsut plugged in, loaded the tune and then it was good. I would like to learn about fuel tables and all that stuff.



I don't really want to go optispark because I see how many problems they have. I know some people put distributors in, but that seems like a real PITA if you ask me.

 

Optispark is not the piece of junk everyone talks about. I've never had any problems with mine, and I don't hesitate to drive it in the rain. Most of the problems you hear about are the '92-'94 unvented ones that get moisture buildup. The '95-'97 was a much better opti. No need to waste money replacing it if you don't need to.

 

Where were you listening to those sound clips?

BTW, the LE2 with the AI intake work sounds like a great idea. That along with a 58mm throttle body...


Since I live in CA, what's the status on smog legality of all this stuff? Would my car still pass with all this work done to it? Would I have to go with a milder cam than what the LE2 package comes with?

 

I am not sure about cali but I hear it's all in the tune. Over here i have to buy illegal stickers because none of my cars ever pass. I have such bad luck with emmissions. Could be because I ditch all my emmisions gear hahaha

 

I'd say theres probably not much of a chance at all of you passing emissions with the LE2 or 3 package. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go with a smaller cam.

 

oh yeah, I found the sound clips while searching the camaroz28.com boards. I found one that was really good and forgot to save. Sounded sick. Nice and lumpy at idle. can't deny it of a good sound thats for sure. I am more impressed with the numbers though.

 

http://www.unrealhp.com/stevez/simple.wmv


thats the LE2 video at idle that had me drooling.

 

posted this a while back but will post it again, here is a price breakdown for my top-end.. I was already running a holley 52mm tb, electric wp, and borla catback with edelbrock headers..

373rwhp @ 6k rpm, 361rwtq @ 4.5k rpm..

Lloyd elliot heads, bigger valves, dbl springs, 7/16 studs, guideplates. $1000

LE2 cam $400 he hadn't introduced "packages" yet..

Thunderracing hardened pushrods $102

Comp R lifters $229

Comp Pro-magnum NSA 1.6 7/16 stud rockers $272

Ford 30lb SVO injectors traded for these but they are at 80% duty cycle and have plenty of room at 45 psi..

all miscellanous gaskets etc.. $200??

beer for wrench friends $30

bloody knuckles over a long weekend = priceless

and most important, a real dynotune.. I had a mail order that was useless.. Carolina Auto Masters gave me unlimited tunes and dyno time for $400. The car idles almost as smooth as stock but sounds quite cruel, like it is ready to make a jailbreak or something..

Unless you get a special tune to pass smog to load and remove at will, you will never get an LE2 past a sniffer..

The setup has more in it, right now I have the edelbrock TES that chokes over 300rwhp.. and I am still running a cat, those things will be gone soon with a corresponding increase in power. The combo should peak a bit higher.. also I have the REV valves, while good, you will see a little more hp (though not much) with the ferrea valves, not sure why but guess this has to do with a slightly different cut.

Lloyd was a great guy to work with, so was Jeff at carolina auto masters.. my next project is a forged shortblock to bolt the heads to and force induct the LT..