Right now i am in the middle of a big question with my self. I would like to have a 383 built. but i also want to be different. everyone is running 383's right now. they are really good motors. my question is how serious can you get about building a mean 305 or 335 stroker. I have a 305 right now. i can start building this motor up and back some good parts into it. if i push a 305 to the max would it be worth it. I really dont want to hear stuff about how 305's are no good. i just want to hear what i could get out of a built 305, power adders, nitrous, blower, whatever. would in the end be cheeper and better to have a 383 built or have a 305 built, i am looking for power, how much is possible out of a 305, opinions welcome i just dont want this to turn into a 305 hate fest like many others have turned into, thanks


1983sc

 

you can get slightly less then a 350/383 would have, but it would be harder to drive (higher RPM power), and cost a lot more. There's a reason it's not very popular.

Tim burgess, tunedport335, mwnova66, fast355, and a few others have or had fast 305's. I think all of them would say that you should skip the step and go to the 350 now, and not waste your money. But in the end it's completely your choice.

main point a 305 is not as popular, isn't just the motor size (which you are partially getting around by going to a 335), but it's the bore size. bore size limits valve size, which limits how much air you can get into the motor, which limits how much power it'll make and how high RPM it'll spin. Since it's a small displacement motor, you have to rev it higher to make more power, but since it has smaller valves..... well, you can see it's not a pleasant circle.

In short, no. If you're dead set on doing it (and are willing to be nice about it, and take the neccesary flak ) then we will help you, but you'll be disappointed in the end when a cheaper larger motor beats you, and the busty blonde doesn't care that you're "different" with your 305

Otherwise, do a search, most members don't even want to waste their breath on this subject, since, as you've noticed, it will very soon become the same arguement it always is.

Nothing wrong with a simple low budget 305, but touching the shortblock is where it becomes a waste. an all out, no holds barred, whole 9 yards 305 is kinda a waste.

'nuff said?

 

There is no replacement for displacement. Bottom line.

Why not just get a 350, do whatever you want to do with it, in the mean time live with the little 305, and swap when the new engine is ready?

Would it be cheaper? Maybe, maybe not. Either way the block will have to get sent to the machine shop, new rotating assembly, the works.

It's not a matter of hating the 305's. It's a matter or logic. IMO "being different" doesn't really justify building a 305 when 350's are a dime a dozen. Especially if you stroke one.

But, if you want to get "serious" about it, go ahead. You can throw a massive cam in it, you can bump the compression way up, you can get some massive heads - all the things required to have a bad *** engine. In the end, you end up with a motor that has a 3,500-7,000 RPM powerband, whereas the same components in a 383 has a 2000-6000 rpm powerband and is a helluva lot more street friendly. If you're looking for power, the answer should have hit you in the face by now.

 

There is a reason the 350 and 383 setups are popular. Because they are cheap and work well. If doing a 305 stroker was better, the majority of the crowd would go with that. My suggestion, go with the tried and true 350. It's been around forever for a reason.

 

It sounds like you already know the answer to your question(s)...

For our TPI engines, 1 to 1.1 FWHP per cube naturally aspirated is a really good (somewhat smog legal) street engine. A power adder will put a streetable 305 into the low 12's, maybe 11.9 if you spend a lot of cash and know what you're doing.

A 305 with a good cam, heads, and NOS may be the way to go for you to be a little different.

 

I have a little experience in this "different" thing. Last year at this time, my sig said "305 on 'roids". And, as you can see, the '57 has the "baby" big block.

How many people have been impressed with the performance of these "different" set-ups of mine? Well, I don't need to take my shoes off to count. At the track, the most typical comment I hear when standing next to the '57 with the hood up is, "Oh, it's a big block." If it was a 283 under the hood, they might be impressed with my numbers (maybe), but since it's a "big block", somehow they just aren't as impressed anymore. Even after I say, "Yeah, but it's the baby of the family." I had the souped-up 305 in the Camaro from Nov '01 to Jul '05, and the number of people who asked if it was a 350 was a grand total of 1. And, they weren't all that impressed when I said, "No, it's just a 305." However, many people have been impressed with the performance of the current 350.

Bottom line: The only people that will care what engine a car has are the owners - that means you. Personally, I'm pretty impressed with the stock-looking '72 Nova out at the track that has a full interior with a well-designed 6-point that runs mid-10's at sea level with "just" a 350 and 750 cfm carb. No power adder. That's an impressive, "different" car in my opinion. But, he trailers it to the track.

The only reason to "build" a 305 is to minimize the cost - for now, at least. If you do (or have to do) anything to the shortblock - rings, bearings, turn the crank, bore the cylinders, new pistons - don't bother. Cut to the chase and get with the program.

Even if it's crowded in there. . .
----------
By the way, this isn't a "305 hate-fest". It's a "305 reality-check".

 

Alright, thanks guys. There is a shop around here that will build me a long block 383 for $2,000-$2,500 depending on if i want all forged parts or not. i just wanted to see what the response would be with the 305, thanks for the opinions.

1983sc

 

I think there's more than one reason to "build" a 305. They are just cars, we are not curing cancer. An all original restoration with a few hop-ups (even in the bottom end) is'nt a topic of scorn, is it? My car will never see the dragstrip, but it will never see the junkyard, either.

 

It depends. You can keep it all original with the original engine if you like, but you're not increasing the value of the car by much in doing so, if at all.

If you're going to hop it up and touch the bottom end at all, you're better off starting with a 350 or larger block.

 

You are 100% correct, but value is a relative term when you are talking cars. On some, I think dealing with the hand you are dealt is the best path to travel. But I have terrible luck with woman as well, as it turns out. They both cost me money, and I have fun with both of them though.

 

Whether cars or women, you'll have the most fun for the longest time for the least amount of money when you do things the right way.

 

It seems to me that you've read all the reasons why not to build a 305. I wanted to disprove this "theory" by keeping my original 305 block and building it to the hilt, while still being able to drive it daily (if I so chose) and keeping it emissions legal. When it was supercharged, it was my daily driver, with all power accessories and was emissions legal. My yearly emissions check includes a visual inspection for components and a tailpipe sniffer (idle and cruise). With 14-psig boost, my best 1/4-mile E/T is a 12.004 @ 117.62 mph. Not bad for a "305", I'd say. What makes this even more impressive is the following fact: I had 3.73s with this setup. Unfortunately, I'd hit redline (6200 rpm) in "D" between two and three seconds before hitting the traps. At this point in time, I had no choice but to let off the gas slightly and drop the tranny into overdrive -- basically coasting through the traps.

My 12.004 seconds will be a baseline for my current setup, which I'm still working on. It's the same car with one basic change. No more supercharger. In lieu of it, I'll be running twin turbos. Same twin intercoolers. Oh, I also changed the rear gears back to the original 3.23s. Initially, I'll run with the same boost for comparisons sake. I'm expecting to better my best. Time will tell. Oh, it still has all the original emissions equipment too. So how about an emissions-legal 305 that runs 10's? I hope to do this.

 

Willie, you're a wild man, and everybody knows that. . .

You didn't mention what you did to the bottom end to be able to run like that. Those details should be included.

 

Willie brought up a good point, Gears.... Bottom end torque, or top end speed, maybe a little of both.

If you've got a 305 with a 10-bolt, the 3.42's may be the best of both worlds. If you have a 9-bolt, you can still get a new 3.45 Ring & Pinion set shipped here from Austrailia.

 

Power is about getting air & fuel into the cylinder, burning it to produce pressure to drive the piston down, and getting the combustion products out of the cylinder in order to get the next charge into the cylinder.

Power adders skew the picture in more than one way.

If all you want to do is prove how much power a 305 can be made to make, watch Willie.

If you want to make as much power as possible for the money spent, you will only work with the 305 to about 350 HP. I know "there was a magazine article where they got 400 HP out of a stock bottom end 305" - what people never say when they enter that little piece into evidence is the magazine blew up the bottom end on the dyno at that power level.

If your stock bottom end is in good condition, you can add cam, heads, intake, and exhaust and get more power than you would spending the same money on a 350 - because a 350 will need cam, heads, intake, and exhaust, so you're going to have to skimp somewhere with the 350 to only spend the same money as you did on the 305.

Power adders - using the assumption of a stock bottom end is going to severely limit how much spray or manifold pressure you can sustain.

Now, as has been said over and over, spending the same money on a 350 bottom end as you do on a 305 will always produce more power with the 350. ALWAYS! EVERY TIME! No one can dispute that, for several reasons:
- 305-specific parts are typically more expensive than 350 parts - it's an economy-of-volume thing.
- In non-power-adder set-ups, the aforementioned valve shrouding of the cylinder walls will impede the aforementioned cylinder filling and evacuating.
- For a given pressure produced in the cylinder, the 350 piston, having greater area, is going to produce greater force to rotate the crankshaft. Therefore, more torque and more power.
- The cost of buying a 350 core vs. building a 305 you have is going to be a very small part of the total cost of the build. If you're assuming some special high-po parts, like you have to do for poweradders, 350 parts are going to be cheaper, off-setting the additional cost of the 350 core. When you're done, the HP/$ ratio is always going to favor the 350.

So, decide up front what you want to accomplish - make the most power possible from the "different" 305, or make the most power for the money spent.

 

....So, decide up front what you want to accomplish - make the most power possible from the "different" 305, or make the most power for the money spent.

Very good advise.


You didn't mention what you did to the bottom end to be able to run like that. Those details should be included.

My car's webpage is very outdated. Once I complete the project, I plan on updating it with all the specifics. But for now, the bottom end is comprised of:

1) 4340 Cola crankshaft,
2) 4340 Manley H-beam rods,
3) Forged JR dished pistons, &
4) Stock 2-bolt mains converted to splayed 4-bolt with inner studs.

The coincidental thing is this: After I built the engine, I bought a 2003 Cobra. Many of the parts/specs of this 4.6L engine (281 CID) are extremely close to what I chose for the 305. This 4.6L 4-valve per cylinder engine has seen 650-700 hp with the stock bottom end (others, not me). And we should not forget about the Buick guys with their 3.8L engines and the potential level of power those mighty-mights are capable of.

The bottom line in making a decision on what displacement to go with, is simple. Follow someone else's lead and build what almost everyone else builds, or build something different if you don't want to be "like everyone else". I really like telling other guys that "it's only a 305", but that's just me.

Willie

 

I agree, because it really boils down to why you want to build the motor. If you are the type of guy who wants to show the world what a 305 can do, or if you have a strong desire to do something a little different, the 305 can be a very interesting platform, as Willie has proven.

If your goal is to go fast, there are far more practical ways to get there. For example, as impressive as Willie's car is (VERY impressive), if the same work was done to a 400, your finantial investment really wouldn't be much different, but your power output would be significantly higher. You just loose the ability to brag about your 305.

 

Ahhh, The 305, the bastard child of the sbc V8. Something about the road less travelled..... I will always hold a special place in my heart for it. (and a special bank account)

 

I got an idea.Build the **** out of a 350.Then get some gay chrome valve covers that have 305 stamped into them.Wala',your different.From that point,lie til ' ya die!

 

ever driven a 267? Most dismal excuse for a V-8 i've ever seen.

 

for a naturally aspirated motor, please build it based on cubic inches, or get ready to spend some serious cubic dollars. been there, done that.

i will be building another 305 motor cause they are great motors, but it'll be going into a malibu station wagon at some point and will be more based around towing and reliablity...and the fact that i want to try some more things with it, but don't want it to be my "fast" car.

 

If you want to be different build a 377

 

http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/343hp305.html

please note, the heads used were stock, take in account if you were to use some Top Proline or S/R Torquer heads...

Thanks,

Eric....

 

Also keep in mind that crappy flowing heads on a 350 may not be that crappy flowing for a 305.

As far as cost for SPECIAL 305 parts(other than pistons) they're the same(balance is a little different).


Reason I'm doing it:

Already have the machined block on the stand(bearings, freeze plugs, cleaned etc.)

4 bolt Billet caps and studs waiting on my bench till it goes for a line bore

even moderately flowing 1.94/1.55 heads will feed it plenty when being pushed by a 66mm wheel.


And let's not talk about those Buicks Willie I'm done with them!!!!