ok well i have an 86 camaro with a 305tpi in it now with a 700r4 trans. come winter i plan on swapping it out to a vortec 454 and a 4l80E out of a chevy 3500 pick-up. has anyone on the board ever done this. i searched and see that some people have put big blocks in third gens but they all have been carburated as far as i can see. just looking for some feedback and a little advice if anyone has done this.

thanks
mike

 

Externally, the Vortec isn't any different than any other BBC. It uses a roller cam, has a one piece rear seal and is a 4 bolt block with a steel crank. The intake manifold may be a little tight near the stuff on the firewall but may also fit with no problems. You'll have little to no room to access the distributor. I don't think the factory oil pan will clear the engine crossmember.

The 4L80E will be more of a problem. It's a very big, long and heavy tranny. A custom crossmember will need to be fabricated and some tranny tunnel fabrication may be required. You'll also need to have a computer to operate it. You'll need a new shorter driveshaft and a tranny slip yoke since the 4L80E uses the same larger slip yoke as a TH400

With enough time and money, anything can be made to fit.

 

is the distributor not in the same place as a regular big block? and the 4l80e is the same as the th400 its just electronic. did they move the mount location on it or something? as far as the computer i havent decided if i was going to get a full stand alone or just take the computer from the truck and comletely tune it myself. im a mechanic and have the equiptment to lock and unlock anything i want in an OBDII computer as well as tuning software to make it run the way i want. but that still hasnt been decided. if the tranny is really gonna be a problem then ill just use a th400 i was just thinking of using the 4l80e from a doner truck.

 

Not true. The TH400 is a 3-spd automatic, the 4L80E is a 4-spd automatic (thats what the '4' means, 'L' mean longitude-mounted ie RWD, number has to do with strength IIRC, and the 'E' means its computer controlled)

The 4L80E is much closer in design to the 700R4 (aka 4L60 or 4L60E - there were both mechanical and computer controlled versions) than the TH400.

 

The 4L80E uses the same gear ratios (plus an OD) and about 80% of the rotating parts are the same as a TH400 but that's where the similarity ends. The case is bigger and longer than a TH400. It has a huge electronic valve body and oil pan. It uses an electronic speed sensor. It's not really much stronger than a TH400. It needs the 34 element sprag like the late model TH400's do to make it stronger. It's also at least 100 pounds heavier than a TH400

I have a couple of TH400 in my garage and my daily driver truck has a 4L80E

 

oh ok now i see. i knew the th400 was only a 3-speed and that the 4l80e was a 4 speed but i was unaware that the case was different. well then that solves that ill be using a th400 instead. i just thought it would have been easier to use the 4l80e and would be nice to have the electronic control but screw it the th400 works good enough for me.

now you mentioned something about the distributor not fitting. why is that? isnt it in the same location as a regular carburated 454?

 

It's still at the back but it's a different shape. The cap is larger. Technically it could be called a crab style with the plug wires coming straight off the sides. I really don't know if there would be a clearance issue. I had a large cap HEI on mine for a while with no problems,

The TH400 also isn't just a direct swap. Again, you'll need a larger slip yoke for the tranny. The driveshaft from the pickup truck should provide one unless it had a bolt on yoke like most trucks have. You can solve the tranny crossmember problem by buying something like a Spohn torque arm for a TH400. It will come with a new crossmember designed for a TH400. The TH400 uses an electric kickdown circuit so a switch needs to be mounted on the throttle.

 

There are two types of Vortec BB's found in the trucks. I assume were not dealing with the tall deck. I actually pulled a tall deck out of a 98K3500 some info in the BB sticky I gave a few years back is invalid.

As far as fitment it's the same as any other 3rdgen BB swap, the distributor is in the same place. Externally the engine is slightly different from the previous versions. Timing cover is nearly identical to a SBC and takes away the easy cam swap BBCs were known for. The stock 8qt pan will clear the x member but the stock exh pipe can no longer be routed between the x member and oil pan. Not a big deal since most swappers wouldent use stock routing and components anyway. Doesent seem I have any pics of the timing cover.

Crank material could be either cast or steel, they use the same flywheel GM 92-06 #14096987 for any using early transmissions, 97-00 with late trans uses a flywheel with a shallow cup, early clutch hubs will not fit the 97+ flywheel. They have two different part numbers for flexplates one with a cast crank and one with a steel crank. Kinda funny the flexplate would require slightly different ballance for crank material since the flywheel doesent.

 

and slip yoke will fit and work on a tailshaft that had a bolted on on it the only difference is that some are drilled and tapped for the bolt and others arent


thats all

so you can use a slip yoke on all of them but a bolt on yoke only on drileld and tapped ones

good luck

 

ssc i have read your info in the BBC swap article. did you ever complete the swap with a fuel injected 454?

 

No, the fuel injection would have been too much hassle for my taste. Besides that if you slap a performer intake and a Q-jet on this MPFI engine you gain a whole lot more power all around and fuel economy is even better. The current gen 6 454 that is in my 76 truck gets 14 MPG city compared to a 3/4 ton 2wd my friend has with the intact vortec setup and a whopping 12 MPG.

 

what were you gonna use for a computer? to my understanding the stock camaro computer can be used i would just have to create a fully custom prom for it.