I am going to begin buying car(s) and components to put this together. The end goal is to buy a wrecked LS1 car (so i have all of the parts i'll need) and swap the driveline into a 1991 Camaro. I haven't bought the 91 or the LS1 car yet, so i figured I'd try and do my homework and make it as easy as possible on myself.

so, basically, my question is: which year/model/features of each car do i need to look for?

here's some considerations:

1. i want the 6-speed from the LS1 in the 91. i have swapped automatic to manual before, and wasn't too excited about the prospect of doing it again. but, i am willing. so, i assume, the 91 doesn't have to be stick-shift from the factory to be able to accept the 6-speed. and automatic 3rd gen's are more plentiful. is it worth my time to look for a 5-speed 91 and avoid the extra trouble? keep in mind that I'm going to be VERY picky with the color/appearance of the car, so i may already have my hands full when the search begins. also, i have been told that the v6 3rd gens were quite a bit more plentiful with 5-speeds, but i'm not considering a v6 unless it will put me leaps and bounds ahead when the swap comes. i'll probably end up driving the 91 around for a while before swapping things, both to get a feel for the car "before" so i have something to compare the "after" to, and to allow for finances to recover a wee bit between stages of the project. my wife can be deadly if prompted. =)

2. i am looking at the possibility of overhauling the LS1 before sticking it in the 91. while doing that, perhaps a new set of heads and a cam? if i choose to go this route, anyone out there got opinions as to which ones? the NUMBER ONE function of this car is as a daily driver, so please keep fuel efficieny (prime concern) and longevity of the motor/tranny in mind. i am mainly looking to eek a few more ponies out of the motor, and perhaps strengthen the bottom end torque (which, from other places on the forum, i hear is not all that great).

3. i intend to keep the A/C usable. i understand that the compressor's location makes modifying/replacing portions of the framework necessary. from those of you with experience, which method would you recommend (buying parts or modifying the existing ones)

4. i know that most camaros are not all that well known for suspension that will hook, or for lack of body flex when under load. i have been looking/asking around at fixes for this. i've had several recommendations on what to do, but i wanted to ask here as well. i'd like to not spend much on suspension if i can get away with it. i'm not even really convinced that the mods will be necessary on this project. note: this car might see a drag strip once or twice, if ever. and at that, it'd probably be just to get an idea of what she'll do. never any serious drag-racing. perhaps a bit of impromptu racing while rolling down the highway or at a stoplight. but that's it.

anyone have an exhaust system they'd recommend?

in all recommendations, please remember that though i don't mind putting a bunch of labor into this initially, i'd like to not be under the hood much (at all, if possible) once it's all together. so, if i need to go buy a part rather than modify the existing one and risk something happening later that requires more work, than i'd rather spend a few bucks.

PS: MUST have t-tops, if that changes anything.

 

Welcome to thirdgen.org.

Read this yet? https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...1-lt1-tpi.html

 

i did take a look at that... but my questions related more to the whole project than the aspect of the motor. i know this is an "engine swap" area on the forum, but i didn't see one category that covered all my questions, so here i posted. i've got a decent understanding of what i'm up against when i do undertake the swap, but i'll be reading through all the posts on here for ideas hints and tips. for now, though, this post is more to try and figure out which cars will be the best options for my project, since i don't own either the 3rd or the 4th gen yet, but i am looking to buy soon.

-Chris

 

The more i think about it, the less i think this post is in the right category. i didn't see a general "swapping questions" category though.

a random thought: how much are the wrecked LS1 cars selling for? is there any sort of an average? i'd need to get all driveline pieces, so it couldn't be too terribly banged up.

 

Welcome to the board. I'm going to stab at most of your questions, but may miss some along the lines. Regarding how much the wrecked ls1 cars are going for always varies, I myself have not been lucky enough to even find one for a decent price so I've had to stray away from that idea.

If you are looking to drop in a 6 speed, your best bet would be to go ahead and find a nice 5 speed car. This puts alot of issues at ease and generally makes the swap go alot quicker and easier. I myself would look for a 5 speed t-top v6 car, plan to for my next build. I am going to choose a v6 car because I know that 9 out of 10 the body will be straight because of the pathetic power that they produce should not be anywhere close to enough to torque a frame. Especially for a t-top cars, I myself have yet to own a t-top car, but I would hate to buy it and find out the frame is tweaked, so that's my reasoning behind it. Unless you are going for the ID tag, a 6 cylinder car would be a better bet.

If I were you, I would not slack on suspension. Suspension and tires are very vital parts of the pie regarding cars. I would definately invest in some sub-frame connectors from a company like UMI or Spohn. You may as well rebuild the whole suspension, Spohn sells kits for 395, so it can be done for relatively cheap. Get some good shocks and struts, which tend to get pricey, but well worth the price. Bilsteins and Konis have a good reputation, I am happy with my Bilstein, so I stuck with them when i purchased new rear shocks, I sent my fronts back to Bilstein to get rebuilt since my car orignally came with Bilstein shocks/struts. I'd go for polyurethane bushings all around to get rid of the old deteriating rubber bushing OEM.

Suspension and tires will help your car hook alot better, so definately don't cheap out in that area. Run some good tires and you should be fine. If you plan to run bigger rims/tires, you may want to get the 4th gen rearend to go along with the driveline. Remember that this rear is about 2 inches wider on each side, but if you are planning on running wheels for a 4th gen you should have no problems fitment wise. I saw recently that PA Racing is making a k-member that accepts Flaming River rack and pinion, so you could always go for that in the front.

While you are re-building the suspension and whatnot I'd opt to go for a disc rear with the ls1 calipers, and either ls1 or c5 corvette brakes in the front. There are a few modifications necessary but you should be able to find all of that information here.

I'm not sure where you heard that the ls1 is not a good torque producer, I don't see that to be true. If you want to beef it up go ahead and get some better pistons/rods/pushrods/etc and do a complete overhaul on the motor. Some new heads and a wide range camshaft and you should be able to daily drive it, take it to the drag strip, even through some laughing gas at it without much problems.

I can't help you with the AC components, but do a search and you should yeild all the results you could ever need.

After all the smoke clears you will know you have a badass car. There are certain areas where you could slide by without buying everything new, but certain areas where you can't or shouldn't, so keep that in mind. If you are like me, you'd like to do it right once and get it out of the way and move onto the next area of the car. I've found this to be much more reliable and much more enjoyable, Stops me from saying so many damn curses when something goes wrong. Hope I helped.

 

i had intended (but not mentioned) to swap brake components from the donor car to the 91. i've got a buddy that just did this to his 91 formula, so i've got a bit of help there with any questions i may have.

any idea on fuel mileage differences b/w the v6 and the v8's? i still really don't wanna go for a v6... though the potential to have the body tweaked by a lead foot does sway me a bit, considering that i'm likely to have to hit e-bay to find the one i want.

and as far as torque goes, i'm not sure where i heard that... i thought i read it somewhere on here when i first started looking around for info. maybe not. after thinking about it a lil, i seem to remember never feelind dissatisfied with the LS1 cars that i've been in/around/driven's low end. hmm.

is there a particular LS1 car that would be better for me than another? i remember vaguely someone telling me to ONLY get a 2002 model LS1 car if i was gonna go this route, but i cannot remember why... something with the ignition in the '02 model perhaps?

if i'm looking to dump a bunch of cash for the wrecked car, then an overhaul is probably not in store in the near future. i'll have to find one with low miles and cross the 'ole fingers before buying it... hopefully it won't need one right away. what's a stock overhaul on an LS1 run anyway?

is it feasible to keep this entire project (purchase price of both cars included) under $10K?

thanks for the help
-Chris

 

As far as prices on wrecked/salvage cars go, check out Hawk's (there's a link for them somewhwere on the board, probably an ad on the right of the screen) and consider that about the ceiling. Keep in mind Hawk's is a specialty shop, so the prices tend to be a little higher (and keep in mind I'm a cheap bastard). E-bay may be the way to go, or go lurking on some fourth gen boards.

I myself highly recommend the subframe connectors. I had a set on my black '87 Z28. I don't remember if you drove it before and after they were installed, but it made the car feel much more solid. Also helps eliminate a lot of the squeaks and rattles our cars are known for.

I'll send you some extra spindles and rotors for you to modify to take the 4th gen brakes if you want them. I can just bring them as checked luggage when I fly down there, or I can mail them to Wes and Vicki (though I don't know how much they'll appreciate that...)

 

With regards to the A/C, all you have to do is notch your k-member. There is a TON of information here about that already so I won't spell it out for you.

As for putting in the 6 speed, my car was originally an auto, then a 5 speed, now 6 speed. Its not that hard to swap over, the worst part is cutting thru the firewall for the pedals.

 

thanks for all the input so far everyone!

as far as the K member goes, does notching it weaken it any substantial amount? does the purchase-able bolt in retain the strenght lost (if any) if i were to notch it instead?

after mulling over all the info i've got so far, i've decided to find a 1991 v6 5-speed car as the starting point. i'll likely add chassis stiffening parts (subframe connectors, etc..) ASAP, and begin searching for the 4th gen ls1 donor car. any recommendations as to which specific 4th gen model/features to look for?

-Chris

 

Notching will not weaken it as long as you weld a plate back in, thats all explained in the threads about it.

Don't waste your money on the tubular, trust me.

 

Surf this site,LS1 tech and hawks web site. All your questions will be answered. It's a great swap but can get expensive.
My mild cammed LS1 gets 20.9 mpg combined city / hwy driving with 331 RWHP.

 

to wrap this all up, here's the final decision:

as far as the LS1 cars go, the motors and tranny's were very similar... a few extra horses for the ss i suppose and a few differences here and there. but finding the wrecked car at a reasonable price will be the hard thing. so, likely i'll spend a good deal of time searching for an LS1 with a 6-speed wrecked... to heck with being picky. i can make up the minor differences in performance and whatnot with aftermarket parts and a few minor engine mods. besides, i imagine a wrecked 1998 base-model LS1 will be a lot cheaper to nab than a 2002 SS, and, for my purposes, will yield nearly identical results. (of course, correct me on all of this if i am wrong)

anywho. thanks to those who have replied. and thanks for the patience. rest assured future posts from me will be well-researched, to the point and posted in correct areas. no one enjoys noobs (and their questions) and i am not a fan of being one. i'll be better next time =)

-Chris