Just looking for people's experiences in passing California smog emissions after redoing your block from a 350 to a 383. Do you have to reprogram the ECM? How much retuning and at what cost? How does the car pass, low numbers, average, barely? Overall is it a pain to pass smog?

thanks for the input.

 

383's are great but they just multiply the TPI's already great torque. You'll be spinning the wheels when you launch instead of planting the tires and shooting forward.

Yes you will require a custom chip because of all the other enhancements you need (cam, heads, intake, transmission) to go with it, or you're wasting your money stroking a stock engine.

383's are better for carb engines to give them extra torque they dont have. TPI's already have awesome torque so they dont need it. Also, the long tube runners that provide TPI's torque cant keep up with the extra air requirements of a 383, so be prepared to spend big bucks having your TPI ported and reworked like Dyno Don, 1989TransAmGTA, and myself have done.

 

Since I think I will be doing my engine anyways I thought I might as well stroke the engine. I would love to have more power, but I won't be racing or burning any rubber. Other people love power in the form of BMW’s, Porche's, Vipers, etc...but that doesn't necessarily mean they use it. It's more like bragging rights I guess. For me it’s always been my Camaro and will always be.

I've never had the type of engine work I'm planning to have done so I don't really have an idea of what you would consider big bucks. My current situation is that I have a deadline of February 29th because as you know from my other post, I failed smog 3 times and who knows why. So, to aleviate that whole situation, I might as well have someone do my engine with a guarantee to pass smog by that deadline. The estimate I'm leaning towards now to have this work done is $2000 max labor to pull the engine and put it back in. The 383 engine itself is $6500 to $8500 max depending on whether I want the best stuff or just very good, meaning better than the stock stuff. This does however includes AFR heads and a bit more aggressive roller/hydraulic Comp Cam. As they described to me the building process, every thing built would be to exact tolerances. The example they gave me was that the bearings used would all have the same measurement. If they didn't, they would not be used. According the shop, because of that, it takes more time and money. Makes sense to me. I guess I can always just have them add bigger runners and high flow manifold right? Like Edelbrock or someone elses? Do you think I will need a bigger throttle body? I'm the type of person that likes detail, and for things to be done correctly but I'm also do not want a race car. For this reason I'm attracted to having my engine redone vs. a crate engine which is mass produced and with tolerances not as tight. They also guarantee I will pass smog.

$600 to reprogram/retune my computer?

I'm also gonna have them install a Transo shift kit.

So, my final cost on this buid is in the approx $10,000 to $12,000 range I guess and I'm ok with that price to have it done right.

Kevin, you and Dyno Don we're my first choice for building my engine, and was hoping to get it done by you guys since you are truly "Camaro experts" but a one year waiting list is too long for me. So I have to settle for someone else. Since I'm off work for MLK holiday, I'm going down to the shop to screen them a little more and see the operation before I commit. No sense in thowing any more $$$ at figuring out why my car won't pass smog.

Thanks again for your help and any suggestions are welcome!

 

I can do the chip tuning for less than half of that cost, if you want. I'm available almost every Saturday.

Edelbrock makes all the intake manifolds now, and they have the lowest price, so you might as well buy one of theirs.

Accel runners have always performed well. The Arizona Speed & Marine semi-siamese are the best but they're very hard to find. AS&M is always out of them.

You dont need a 52mm throttle body, but it wont hurt if you have one. Keeping the stock one is one way to save money, but go ahead and get a 52mm one if you have the money.

$12,000 is big bucks in my mind. Don's customers typically spend half that, including cam, intake, heads, tranny, and install. Who is the shop?

What Comp cam? The hot ticket right now is the XFI268HR-113.

If you're not going to be racing or burning rubber, why make it a 383? The extra cubes will require more gasoline, meaning you get less miles per gallon, and it will put out slightly more smog during test time.

 

Kevin, thanks for the offer. I just passed smog, very clean, so now I don’t have to rush into an engine and I have more time to research and think about it and who I want to use.


I like the cool looks of the Edelbrock. Performance wise or what to combo up with that I would not know. If the 52mm was the right part to add, I would want it. Looks they are about $300-$400. Looking at the big picture, I would be ok with that if I we’re already spending thousands.


Like I said, you and Dyno Don we’re my first choice.

Looks like I’d be paying a premium. The shop is Hot Rod Speed Work / Corvettes and Muscle Cars in Van Nuys. I found them advertising here on Third Gen. See the link.
http://hotrodspeedworks.com/

I visited them yesterday and got a short tour. They had some really, really, really, nice cars they we’re working on and restorations.

However, in speaking with them, I got the feeling they we’re not as knowledgeable in TPI cars or computer controlled cars. For example, for $2k, they are taking out and reinstalling the engine. There engine builder, not on location, would build the actual engine. There was no talk about changing intake, runners, throttle body, porting, etc
It seems to me from reading Third Gen forums, that if I swapped to a 383, it would almost require an intake and runners, or it would defeat the purpose of the 383.
Also, the tune guy is not on location either. He is in San Bernardino. They would trailer the car out for that. In other words, I’d be paying for gas and a guy to drive my car out there and back…They charge by the hour. So if it take them longer to do the engine because they are unfamiliar, then I would be paying for it. Overall, I didn’t get the warm fuzzys with what I was hearing.

I want to be at least 350 hp and proportionate torque, or anywhere north of that but not more than 400hp/. Mostly because I want it…Most new cars, imports are coming out with an excess of 300 hp stock. Even my 2004 GMC Crew Cab has 300hp stock. I think my Camaro should at least be higher, if not, a lot higher, after all, it is a sports car. So I would be content with that. Overall I like performance and power. But my biggest priority would be to remain smog legal and have C.A.R.B. #’s for all the mods. I don’t mind using more gas since it is not a daily driver anyways. It’s a toy.

It doesn’t have to be a 383. If I could have someone build me a 350 within those parameters, I would be happy with that. I like quality and attention to deal with well thought out planning.

Does Dyno Don really have a whole years waiting list??? You don’t have to answer that here…Did I mention I would be paying cash? Just kidding but can you please make sure I’m on your/Don's waiting list in case I can hold out that long? If you think you might be able to slip me in somewhere in the near future please email me whether that would be 6 or 8 months down the road. Shoot me an email, I hope you still have it. Let me know if you don’t have it.

Thanks for all the help! I’ve learned a lot.

 

We have people in our SoCal club with cars done by Dyno Don and myself that put anywhere from 300 to 350 horsepower and 350 to 400 torque to the wheels. This is with a 350 cubic inch engine. They run 12 second ET's in the quarter mile, and routinely get 20+ miles per gallon. Is that enough power for you?

However all this power comes at a price. We're so popular we're more busy than we want to be. That's why I'm trying to let everyone know our tricks and secrets so other people can build TPI engines that run faster than 13's and get beat by LS1's. Its all about the combination and getting the TPI intake opened up so it can breathe.

We can talk more at the club meeting if you're coming.

 

Thanks Kevin. I would be happy with 350. I always like the "good stuff" and steer away from budget things, so I'm used to paying the higher prices when it comes to my car and other things.

I will try to make the club meeting!

 

yeah, my dads boss has a 79 malibu with a 350 lt1 stroked to 383 with tpi in it. she is not really a speed car person, so she left the one legger from the v6 in it. when my dad launched the axles literally came out of the rear! the torque shaddered the c clips.

 

yeah these cali guys are definately takin tpi performance to a new level alll the while keeping it smog legal. I got to hand it to them

I do know there are alot of LT1 guys doing 383 with custom emission grind cams that will make 350whp or more and still pass smog no problem.

it can be done with TPI just needs great tuning, and right combination of parts. really open up that TPI stuff.

 

The LT1's and LS1's work great with 383's because of their short runner, high flow intake manifolds. Their manifolds are made to flow better at higher RPMs, so they need the extra torque of a 383 to get them off the line quicker. TPI's already make great torque down low so a 383 just multiplies that torque to where you're either spinning the tires, or breaking parts.

 

if you could siamese the TPI stuff to shorten the effective runner length, or go with a superram, i think you could make really good numbers in a 383 yet be emmissions legal.

It may have a lot of torque, but thats what suspension and drag radials are for.

 

My engine in my car is a 383 tbi and it passed all ca smog checks with no problem. As long as you stay within a smog legal cam you should be fine.

 

Just reading through this thread and I wanted to chime in on a few points.
1) 10-12k IS A TON of money for what you want done. Look at my sig and I had that shortblock built for under 4k and finished the top end off myself, reworking the TPI plenum, SLP runners and TPIS intake. All for under 7k when all said and done on that engine.
2) Your hp/tq goals are VERY achievable even on a stock 350. How? Forced induction. I have a good friend here in CT with a 305, mild cam, world products heads and larger throttle body making almost 400ft lbs of torque....on a 305!! He's using a D1SC setup from Procharger. His engine parts, blower package, etc, when all said and done is probably around the 6-7k mark as well.
3) To take advantage of any moderate engine build/modification you're going to want to either have a knowledgable 3rd genner help you out there or get into DIY tuning.

Just some additional points to think about. Good luck in your build.