Hi guys and gals.

I need some advise on the best swap, if any, given the following parameters...

I live in California.

I have a 3.1 V6 that is about to hit 200,000 miles.

This is my daily driver- I love this car and it will remain my daily driver, until some ACLU-type pries my keys from my cold, dead fingers!

Do I: rebuild the V6, swap in a 3.4 or go to an LT1/LS1?

Remember, this is my regular car; I am not about to go out to Bonneville and chase some record; it needs to be smog legal; it needs to be an ECONOMICAL option; I would like to improve on the pig of an engine that it currently has and by the time I go to the rebuild /replace option, the suspension and brakes will be fully upgraded...

Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

The only technically legal swaps would be EFI passenger car V6's or V8's. The LT1 or LS1 swaps make a lot of sense if you want V8.

 

That still leaves the 3.4 from the 93-95 F body.

The LTx or LSx would be the best option IMO.

 

Sure does!

You need to bring over all of the emissions equipment from the 93-95 f-body, though. When people talk about the 3.4l swap, they often mean with the 3rd gen induction/emissions, which technically isn't emissions-legal.

 

Yup, though in reality it would probably be a pretty nice upgrade if you are determined to stick with the 60* v6, although i wouldnt be surprised if there werent a few on the streets in cali with the 3.4 and the smognazi's not even noticing it, reusing all of the 2.8/3.1 stuff wouldnt make it very noticable, they arent the sharpest pencils in the box typically.

 

you wouldn't feel a huge increase in power, those who swap in the 3.4L will probably do a 3.4L/3500 top end swap, according to firstfirebird is looking for 250rwhp and its only cost him around $1000 only problem is it smog legal? but like the others have stated LSx/LTX FTW

 

Just remember, in California, especially if you live in a "enhanced" smog check area, you can't swap an engine for another size engine if the new size didn't come stock for you year vehicle. For instance, my 84 came with a L69 305 c.i. motor. By California law I can't swap in a 350 c.i. because the 350c.i.motor wasn't offered that year. Doesn't matter if you bring over all of the new smog equipment.

 

Which means a L98 for him

 

That still leaves the LT1 and LS1, same displacement. Not to mention i'd have to bet that is a rumor, i've never seen anything close to that.

You cant do a truck engine into a passenger car, engine must be from the same year or newer and emissions equipment must remain.

 

Again, it's not a rumor. The engine you are putting in had to have been offered the year your vehicle was made. This applies to all California vehicles built after 1975.

 

Tell that to all the guys with TPI, LT1 and LS1 RX7's with BAR legal stickers, RX7's came with a "1.3L" engine, thats far from 5.7L

Same goes for all the SBC S10's

 

Or later.

Nothing prevents you from putting in an '85 Caprice engine, for instance.

 

I didn't say that it couldn't be done. But for guys in California, The car must pass not only the smog check but also a visual check if you live in one of the enhanced area, which usually means a metropolitan area. There are some counties in California that don't require any smog check, mostly upper Northern California above Sonoma Co. and the desert counties. Other counties only require a smog check when you sell your car.

 

Read what I posted, i'm referring to the swaps done IN california, with a BAR certified sticker, it means the engine swap was done, and has passed inspection in california by a smog referee and is certified legal. Its perfectly legal, the engine does not have to be available the year of your car etc, what you may be mixed up with, is swaps that dont require getting a certification.

If you swap in something from the same model and year car that was offered, you dont have to get it certified. However you are stating that no matter what to do a swap and be legal it has to have been available, which is not true, you can perform a swap provided that 1. the engine is from the same type of vehicle family (light duty truck, passenger car, heavy duty truck) , 2. the engine being installed is the same year, or newer than the vehicle its going into 3. all emissions devices on the new engine must remain in tact.

 

I stand corrected. What I was speaking of was for swaps that don't need certification by a referee. It's still a scary proposition to swap out for a different engine. I was on their site reading the requirements. You have to keep all emission devices that came origionally with the chassis and they can disqualify you if you void the manufacturer's emission warranty.

I got baptised in the subject when I took my car in for a smog check. I had placed a "tornado" in the air cleaner. You know, one of those metal finned things that spin the air in a vortec. No moving parts, just moves the air. I failed on a visual check even though I told the tech I'd remove it. They failed me telling me that I needed to have a certified smog mechanic remove it. Screw that, I took it off and went to another smog check. Thats when I found out that I had been reported to DMV as having a "modified" emissions system. $300 later I got my certificate.

 

According to Car Craft magazine, based in CA, you can swap any newer passenger car motor into any older passenger car as long as ALL the emissions equipment comes along with the motor. So an LS1 would be a legal swap so long as all emissions are retained. After re-reading I guess I just said what Z28RlCER said.

 

And what I said.

 

Indeed


Kevin: i'm sure there are plenty of jerks in the smog testing there, just as well as there are some decent people, you definetly found one of the jerks. The ones you'd take a swap to are referee's, i'd guess you bring your car to the regular checkups after getting a BAR swap sticker, which is what you get from having it checked out by a referee.

You stated they can disqualify you if you disable the factory emissions setup, well you found out yourself they can do just the same on your original engine to the vehicle by adding something that doesnt even do anything. Just one of those things you have to deal with if you want to live with the smogidiots in cali.

 

While we were going back and forth on this topic, I had e-mailed the State of California BAR and asked them if the swap from a 1984 305 c.i. to the 350 c.i. would be legal, The following is the answer I was given, reaffirming everything Z28***** stated.

BAR: "Regarding the engine swap you are considering: Yes, you can do it. However, while installing the new engine, you will need to install all the emission components for that engine as well. After the swap is complete, the vehicle will have to be inspected by a California State Referee. The Referee will insure that the job was done properly and that the new engine does not pollute. If all is well they will issue you a BAR label which will be placed somewhere on your vehicles chassis which will be an indication that the vehicle is California legal.

In this case I also recommend you speak directly with a State Referee before beginning any work, just to get the fine details. You want to do this job only once. And with the way the smog laws are always changing, I recommend you get up-to-date information, from the referee's office right before you begin this project.

You can contact the referee by calling (800)622-7733.

I hope this information is helpful to you. If there is anything I can help with in the future, don't hesitate to e-mail"

 

Dont know why it astriked out your name Z28.

 

The board bad word filter takes out the other half of my name, dont worry about it. Go figure I cant post pictures unless I upload them or post my email address because it does the same thing, hehe.

Its good to have the info you posted from the reply email, that is actually from them with the pertinent info. Hopefully this helps some of the others that unfortunately have to play by cali's excessively backassward emissions requirements.

 

Consider the Grand National 3.8 turbo engine

 

If it were me and I have considered this for a drift car project I might do in the future,I would do a hopped up 4.3 v6. Preferably the newer ones out of the new 1500's or what not. lightweight and just enough torque to get you moving. great for handling I believe, but swapping one of those in would be just like swapping in a SBC so it would depend on how badly you want a V6.

 

well i dont live in tight *** cali. i live in Pa nosmog test or bs like that. i have the same 3.1 motor in my 92 rs, whats the biggest i can go that would fit right in place. and what would i need to do this other than the motor? and could i use the same stock trans? i lust power! plus im speedin cause imalways late! help me out!lol

 

You can fit a big block if you had one.

Depends on what motor.

Anything outside of a 3.4 no.

 

94-95 3.4 block with pistons and crank, 3400 rods, 3600 non VVT heads, a decent cam, and higher flow exhaust (if you can get away with it). You will see and 250-320 hp and using pump gas you will have to use premium because of the 10.5 - 11 :1 compression but well worth it because you can swap tune and get some nice mpg out of those engines.

60v6.com has a nice bit of info on this hybrid swap.