ZR1-IROC-RS

Interesting...I'm eyeing a '95 Caprice State police issue brake package.

I've been eyeing the sway bar between the installed and the one I have on the side. Been meaning to take measurements (electrical issues took priority, didn't want to drive her with issues), but by eyeball it looked thicker, I'm planning on doing it and the links when I do the front suspension "pre-v8" which means everything that's not v-8 required like struts/springs. Steering and frame connected suspension. The existing v6 doesn't care about the sway bar size, so I'll do that now when I do 1 spring,the ball joints/tire rods. (at least that's the plan).

What's a wonderbar (beyond being wonderous) and what does it do and what does it cost? The front clip I have is from an '87 Z28 so I might have a wonderbar but couldn't identify it without some help and it sounds like I probably don't.

I had heard/considered that (I have the steering box from the z28), how would I identify a high ratio steering box (at least distinctly from 'the' low).

Also an important point to note (as it's the nature of the thread), I'm looking at two potential engine likely to be purchased within the next week. And the finalists are...

1) a chevy 350 carbed 80k (rebuilt) from a GMC 2500HD 3/4 pickup. $400 - the entire pickup with some repairable door rust. I could register this truck and use it.

2) a chevy 350 '95 LT1 reverse flow heads out of a 9C1 State police issue Caprice. $800 275hp stock - the entire car -with a dented front fender.

I'm considering buying both, keeping the truck, and striping the Caprice.

Thoughts?

89RsPower!

Heres a pictures of a wonder bar, it's basically just a bar that bolts between the front frame rails to reduce flex under heavy cornering and helps reduce the likelyhood of the rail cracking behind the steering box where they normally crack on these cars.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/82-92...Q5fAccessories
can't say I've ever heard of anyone using caprice brakes on a f-body.. probably a reason for that..
Of the 2 engines the carbed gen1 sbc would be the easier swap.. the LT1 would defently be much more involved...

ZR1-IROC-RS

Wow, it's been a while since I've checked in. Hectic Winter for the project, yes I haven't sold the car and am still working on it, Though since the Rear End Swap/Disc Brake conversion I found that the Pinoin seal was leaking during road testing. I swapped that out (It was much easier since all the bolts were turned recently for the swap ...) and it looks like I need some bearing repacked (or replaced...not an immediate concern). I haven't been lazy mind you, just haven't run into any real snags. If you've read through this post I mentioned with the disc rear also came the 87 front end and springs (my current project) and wow have I made progress there. Started with the suspension refurb. Sway bar was a ringer, 34mm on the 87 Z28, much larger than the stock v6. Cleaned, painted and got new poly links and bushings. The A-Arms, bought a full poly bushing set and new hd balljoints for it as well (dropped $90 and my mechanic did all the press out press in work, lol.) -also cleaned and painted and ready. Today finished off the last of the steering linkage teardown (at least as far as I'm going with it). I left the struts in figuring I need a huge and expensive torque wrench to put them back in right, so I'm going to pay the shop to do struts when I get the alignment I now need. Going with all new steering linkage so far as centerlink/relay rod, both inners and outers and sleeves. I've been able to find no discernable differences between the steering gear/pitman & idler in either of the 2 assemblies so if any body knows for a fact let me know. Both steering ratios are the same ~2.5 turns end to end. Otherwise things are progressing smoothly, I have pics on request She's closer to driveable again

ZR1-IROC-RS

A big weekend for camaro work!! The suspension is (short of the struts) is in and reloaded (thankfully didn't hurt anyone, mostly myself, trying to get the lowering springs in since my spring compressor was too long for shorter springs after compressing and releasing them 5 times in 5 different ways, I finally broke down and took a chance jacking them back into the crossmember. Phew, a very ill-advised and nervous operation. But they're in and nobody got hurt. The new relay rod is also in...and damnit if I didn't run out of parts Got the keys to a commercial account at the parts store, YEA!!!, can you say $600 Moog steering for $225....I did , except they've been trying to pass me mismatched outer rods so I'm waiting for the 4th reorder to come in. Seems there are 2 out there (old version new version?), which they'll both work and function fine, so if I were looking to roll the car over for sale they'd've been fine, but since it's mine they have to match to satisfy my sense of symmetry. lol...but tie rods and the steering is done, suspension, short of struts, is done, rear axle and brakes are done....so 3 or 4 frame supports left (subframe connectors, wonderbar, strut tower brace, and possibly ladder bar(s) ) and I'm shopping for my v8 ....sweet. These parts aren't on the car, so there's no teardown involved, just buy and install....oh yeah.

Almost to the engine, Buwahahaahahahahaha, mustangs and mopar beware!

Any chimes on the framing?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Wonderbar....hmmm, looks like it connects right under the sway bar mount brackets from left to right rail is that correct? or do I have to pull the idler mount bracket and sway bar mount brackets off and put the bar under them?....

Shockingly, my service manual has no listing/procedure for wonderbar removal/installation....


"Service to be performed by a qualified dealership mechanic only"

They haven't worked on these cars in 20 years. LOL!!!!

ZR1-IROC-RS

So the guy at the shop gave me a ridiculous quote for the strut job, $225 before parts -yikes, so I'm doing it myself and then having it aligned 40-60 bucks. got the old ones out, and the sensatracs ready to go in, cleanin up the hardware and dust sleaves today. Hopin to have her drivin for the weekend.

ZR1-IROC-RS

A little behind in updating , got the front suspension installed...whoohooo....Lucy is Z28+ from chassis to road....now onto the the last part before the motor....framing.

I figure it starts with a trip to a frame shop to have her checked and, if necessary, straightened.

So I'm targeting three things right now and had questions about a forth.

1. Subframe connectors
2. Steering Brace (WonderBar)
3. Strut tower Brace

and as a fourth I've been thinking whether it'd be worthwhile hunting down some sort of rear framing...maybe some sort of bar between the lower control arm mounts and/or shock mounts?

Anybody seen or know anything like that?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, shopping for the framing today, whew it's been a while, winter just stifled progress. But with a renewed energy, spring is in the air and I've dewinterized and ready to push on with the project.

The big event has happened , I have bought a motor (more specifically the '86 Silverado C10 extended bed it's currently in). Now, I know both the previous 2 owners. the original owner past away shortly after selling the truck to the most recent previous owner. I know for a fact that the engine was swapped out a year before the 1st sale of the truck. Looks like a rebuilt, it's got a 4-Barrel Summit 650CFM up on the intake. I also know the mechanic who performed the swap, but long story, I've got a motor that's about 5-6 years old sucking 8mpg out of that truck with only about 10,000 miles on it (The previous owners were both a couple of local veteran's club buddies, 60ish crowd, very low travel requirements) for $300.

It's supposed to be a 350, but I'm concerned it may just be a 305 with a good intake. I'm having trouble identifying this motor/heads on my own. I've been looking for serials/markings (without disassembling anything), but haven't found them, or can't get to them in the truck's engine compartment, so if anybody knows any tricks for that I could use a little help.

Otherwise, I'll see if the mechanic might still have records or at least a memory of the engine swap for what info it's worth, but it'll be a little bit before I run into him again unless I go out hunting for him.

Any chimes in on the framing components? Brands, exhaust recommendations, ladderbars/crossmembers? How much is too much for a projected 400-450 hp? (weight-hp ratio for drag time considerations)

ZR1-IROC-RS

Confirmed! AC Delco chevy 350 w/ summit 4-barrel carb...$300...SWEET

ZR1-IROC-RS

V6 to V8 Chassis/Suspension upgrades So much disparate information, trying to sort it all out...my running thread of record is here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/en...1-rs-3-1l.html (91 RS 3.1L V6 AT to V8 6spd)

in the Engine Swap forum as that's the "overall" project, but it's had me through everything non-engine related so far. Pretty sure I'll have twisted every damn bolt in this car by the time all's said and done.

Long story short, I'm upgrading my 91 RS into a 91 Z28/SS whatever. (Yes, I'll badge it SS because it's mine) Dropping in a 383 stroker if money/time allows.

I'm in this forum now because in prep for the big drop in I've already rebuilt the entire front suspension into v8 (now a lowered & modified Z28 front clip all poly ) and done the 4 wheel disc conversion w/ passive posi rear end.

So I'm up to frame concerns. SFCs are what I'm shopping for presently. The consensus seems to be tubular weld-ons are the way to go. The welder (buddy of mine) recommended I go bolt on to not fatigue the frame metal and create rust points at all the weld joints. Additionally, he and most of the instructions seem to indicate that welding to the floor pans is required as well. My pans aren't in bad shape, but I live in New England so I expect to do them...should I do them as part of the sfc install or if I weld to the old pans, how much more difficult does that make a pan change later?

Advice anyone?

Chassis Thread Reply from //<86TA>\\ inclusion:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ml#post4892790

"if your pans are in good shape, why change them? thats a heck of a lot of work. Just clean up the surface rust, if any, prime and paint where you ground the metal down, then have the car undercoated again. It will last for another 20 years.

you need to have the connectors welded in. the issues with bolt in ones are that unless there are actually reinforced areas to bolt to, the bolts will work loose and begin to oblong the holes and your connectors will get loose and you will loose much of their benefit.

on a 3rd gen, the only place the subframe connestors can be properly bolt on is the rear LCA mounts, the trans mounts, and the pinch rail, but that ones requires drilling holes. Anywhere else, you have to drill holes through a hollow frame section, and without something inside the frame to keep that part for collapsing when you tighten the bolts, there is no way to keep the connectors tight.

If you paint over the welds, and coat over that, you will never have rust issues.

and since you are in the north east, like me, you have to deal with road salt. best thing to do is not drive the car in the winter, but if you have too, make sure the car is well undercoated, and hose off the underside and wheels well regularly in the winter when the roads are salted.

This year was particularly bad, they must be using different salt or something because all of our trucks at work rust underneath really bad this year for some reason, its actually shocking. I need to check over my personal pickup and see if its rusting anywhere are take care of it before it gets out of hand."

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, so I have a pair of Spohn weld in tubular subframe connectors waiting for weld, and I got the Spohn Chrome-Moly tubular steering brace, bolted that in this weekend

Lesson learned on the steering brace install...

The V6 engine coolant hose is not routed to account for wonderbar installation. I was able to bend the thin metal bracket back enough to install it without interfering with the hose, but I know the brace I got was a lighter stronger dimensionally smaller alloy metal. The standard issue part, if it's any bigger would have been a considerably more difficult install.

I guess since the wonderbar is a v8 option there was no design level thought as to it's spacial requirements.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Alright...so I've been looking into the weld on SFC job...found a master welder, knew exactly the job I was looking for $120 front to back (has his own lift, very good long standing rep, etc.)... big notable prerequisite: THE CARPET/WIRING NEEDS TO BE REMOVED (or at least picked up away from the pans) PRIOR TO WELDING TO THE FLOOR PANS TO NOT SET THEM ON FIRE!!!

Terrifiic, so now the plan is to pull all the interior out (my job) before I can get the weld job done....

ZR1-IROC-RS

More immediately, it's Inspection time again. going to clear that out prior to the interior tear down.

ZR1-IROC-RS

So I ran into a MAP code and the car died out at a light, I managed to get her restarted and limped into the driveway where she'd turn over and then sputter out after a second or 2. Had me a vacuum problem. replaced all kinds of lines with little bits of success, but she still wouldn't idle. traced all the way up to the intake vacuum lines connector. disconnected the rubber connector ( does anyone know what that's called so I can find a new one? looked dry rotted). noted some build up on the connector, so I blew off the lines, blew out the connector, and blew out the upper plenum connector inlet, started up with a little extra pedal, and has been running and starting normal (no pedal) since. It's off to the inspection bay tmw.

But what is the rubber connector at the plenum called?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, so it did it again...same symptoms, but this time I was able to drive her to the bay, got her sticker, parked in front of the shop where the sputter out issue started again. came back to her 2 hours later, pulled and then replaced the injector/pump fuses, she kicked over and I got her home...obviously at this point there is no 'vacuum' problem other than the motor stalling, the vacuum dropping out and the MAP sensor apparently is the only one that's picked up.

Well me and my buddy started going through testing, spark/timing was all fine. in fact we could get her to run by spraying ether/starting fluid directly into the throttle body.

Bingo. It's not getting fuel...why? I didn't take a pressure measurement, but I was able to push the pin down on the fuel rail and could see I had good pressure and fuel was getting into the rail, changed the fuel filter to eliminate it (never changed from when I bought the car, but had it in the trunk for 2 years so what the heck)...no luck on the filter change... couldn't find a sensor that might have died to prevent firing...relays all seemed fine... ok, it had to be an injector/regulator problem. After a little research of the symptoms it was all pointing there...tore down the upper plenum to get to the fuel rail. Of course the regulator requires special tools to even look at, and really wasn't much concern, so how to check the injectors....a working injector coil has a resistance value from 12-17 ohms, terrific. I tested one at 1.3, one at 5.2, and another at 10.1, the other three were all 12.5...eureka!! Finally a broken part to replace in the fuel system...so I go price out new injectors...70 bucks a pop, ouch!!! Well I wasn't dropping that into a motor I intend to pull, so...hi ho hi ho it's off to the junkyard I go. found a 2.8L MPFI Firebird and tested all six injectors at 16.5 ohms, SWEET!!! pulled all six for nothin($) but time, swapped them in and viola, she kicked over the first time and has been running as well as ever since. Kickass! Now I get to drive her around for the holiday weekend, immediate issues resolved, and start the interior teardown next week.

ZR1-IROC-RS

So it's been a while, project stalled a bit. Money ran a little dry, had to move, no more garage/driveway so into winter storage she went. The snows have cleared, the situation has gone a complete 180 degrees and it's time to renew the registration. So game on! Starting to realize I need to do the engine and transmission at the same time so I've started pricing out the transmission swap/manual conversion. I have my base block to rebuild, the Gen I SBC 350->383 conversion and top end upgrades in addition to the 6 speed manual transmission and all the conversion parts. Exhaust, Fuel, and Coolant systems need upgrade, and I'll probably hunt the Mechanical Dash for the computer delete (if I stay carb, computer swap/upgrade/Tach replace if I go TPI) Since this will be the "1 and Done" event likely for my ownership (I don't ever want to have to fully convert a ride again, next time I'm be more requiring of the base car), a Final Major Driveline upgrade.

In the immediate future of course, going to de-winterize the car tomorrow, get it moving and run it around the neighborhood to stretch her legs.

Door pins I want to get done finally, and the SFC install is my next goal (parts on hand, need to finish interior prework for welding) probably in another week or so. Almost time for a junkyard walkthroughs day (size up part finds, got a couple daily driver repairs to do as well) somewhere after inspections are complete (Motorcycle ramp up time too.)

ZR1-IROC-RS

Here's a thought/question...Really with the swap all these parts need to go in at the same time pretty much, engine/trans + all supporting systems, unless I have all the money to throw at it all at once I'm going to need somewhere to keep all these various parts (as they're bought/completed). I do have a storage bin rented so I suppose I could probably make room for supporting systems, but I'm thinking I need to complete the Engine/transmission pairing while I know can support the push over that enormous-work/cash-hill...where could a person look to store a mated engine transmission pair? Do private garages commonly do things like that? (here's 150 bucks, hold it 3 months?)

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

A garage could possibly do that for you, I'd think the easiest would be out the engine in a plastic bag (they specifically make bags for engines) to prevent rust and throw it in a shed

ZR1-IROC-RS

It would be if I had a shed...or a place to put a shed...any idea of a "rough" dimension of the shed it would take? Is there a standard size to a motor palette? (Thinking maybe I can trade a new shed for temporary storage in it. ...)

ZR1-IROC-RS

So hunting down the transmission...now a 'conversion' kit (seems to include most of what I'll need to within maybe a few hundred bucks) any recommendations? I'm looking at Hawk's as a baseline of $2200 for a t-56 conv kit. I've found a few others out there...."Bulletproof"s, "Magnums", rebuilds- all give or take a few hundred bucks....

Anybody got kit recommendations?

Is the T-56 our only real 6-Speed option, having trouble finding other 6-speeds? How much would a rebuild/upgrade to the t-56 internals vs. one of these pre-beefed up T56 transmissions?

Is a kit generally worthwhile to pickup (if I were to buy all new hydraulics/clutches)?

Do compatible T56s come in other vehicles (for pricing/availibilty options...ie. C4/5 Corvettes?, 4th Gens?, Pontiacs?)?

Are the only real differences here the bellhousing shapes (SBC compatible?, Transmission Tunnel/Frame shape?, Crossmember mounting?)?

Has anyone done the (Late model '91) Automatic-> 6-speed Manual Conversion?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Wow, it's been a while since I updated. Bought the engine hoist, 2-ton at $65. Should be more than enough to pull the truck's drivetrain and scrap the body (after maybe craiglisting it to part out the leftovers) , a stand and hoist chain and the motor is free!! Subframes still outstanding (I figure with engine buildup looming and transmission acquisition I 've got plenty of time to tub the interior, might even have to do floor pans while she's tubbed)....ahhh, Fall projects

ZR1-IROC-RS

Continuing on, whew it's been some fun. Engine stand and hoist balancer all in hand. Hoping to have the engine out of the truck stand mounted and stripped/stripping by the end of the summer/fall. Unfortunately, got pinched in the inspection for no e-brake. After tearing apart and tightening/reviewing the entire assembly, console-to-caliper and scratching my head about it, after a little research come to find out it was my fault. Parking brake cable/sleeve lengths were shortened (~6") in the 91-92 Cams. My disc brake rear end swap (coming from the 87 Z28) still had cables in good shape, so I hooked them up and off I went. Ooops...lol...Now for 91s with disc brakes it seems there are 2 lengths there also (from factory)...I presume the shorter the tube the tighter the e-brake. Time to order up them both and swap them over. Sounds pretty straight forward...I'll find out by eow. Just in case anyone else has swapped early to late model discs, please chime on the cable/sleeve lengths, part numbers, recommendations, ect.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Wow, if the plot doesn't thicken... ok, hunting 91 cables has produced some differing results. Comparison with the 87 Rear cables revealed two different length e-brake cables, while the 91 used identical length cables. As I've come to find out the calipers on early models were opposing (one on the front and the other on the back of the rotor) and this is what appears to drive the different cable lengths in the earlier year cars (I did notice the cables were of different lengths when installing which is why I found it odd the stock 91 cables were identically lengthed). So... at stock 87 lengths, the passenger side 62 inch driver and 48 and a quarter inch passenger, the driver moves a little, the passenger full compresses the spring (not enough to hold for inspection). Now my plan has changed to swapping the driver's side up to the 91 version at 56 inches, leaving the passenger side the stock 87 to account for the opposing rotor difference. So 62.5 & 48.25 to 56.5 & 48.25. I'm concerned. I've also seen reasons to believe that the early years were adjustable at the split (solid bar 'equalizer' in a 91-92). Does anyone know whether this setup will work (self-adjust and equalize) or do I have to differential offset the passenger side length to a flat or percentage based length with a non-standard cable on the passenger side?

Math for example...
62.5 - 56.5 = 6 inch difference, 48.25 - 6" = 42.25

or

56.5 / 62.5 = 90.4% reduction, 48.25 * .904 = 43.6

anyone? Do I need to back up to the adjuster model?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Update...good gosh those e-brakes were a pita. And of course, after that, the VATs system disabled the car to where I had to have it towed around eventually home (after some electrical tsing, the resistor reader in the lock cylinder stopped reading the key resistor, couldn't revive the cylinder with cleaning so I built the bypass loop and resolved the intermittent starting problem that's haunted me since purchase -finally a last straw when it stopped all together, result -hacked a Camaro, lol). Good done, inspectable...mostly, unfortunately the factory pans finally rusted through on the driver's side. After all the bs getting through the e-brake, now we're up to a welding job. Not the worst thing as I had the SFCs for install. All welding in one shot, coat the pans excessively - install the SFCs and the rolling shell is complete. Pans from Jegs didn't have the truck freight all the other sites did, so got both, delivered for <$500. Now the plan is to tub the interior in prep for the welding (once the weather turns right around the corner). Have to pay for the welding as I don't think I've got the experience to 'do the job right and once'. Going the get the doors straightened at the same time (got some age sagging, minor -considering). So a major benchmark on this project. The Z28 rolling shell will be completed, ready to accept the forward drivetrain upgrade. Yay!!! We start engine building this summer!!!

So moving on to the Engine (at last)....now, from earlier posts, you know I've secured an AC Delco sbc/350 with 10k mi and a 650 summit carb from an 84 Sierra (swapped into the truck in the 2000s) I was/am planning to rebuild into the 383 stoker for $350 for the whole rusting truck around it. It just so happens that very recently a buddy of mine offered me his 'spare' bbc 454 for $500 (sails a 30-40' fishing boat with 2 of them in it, one forward, one reversed setup, the spare is set forward/automobile/ready, not the marine reversed one). Presently it's nearly complete past long block, need a carb+accessories, intake's on, lower miles, good running, though sitting for a while in storage - trusted source, just finish the build and run. 14015445 casting.

So now I have 2 motors. Thinking the BBC will be FANTASTIC, but the car probably won't ever pass inspection again legitimately with it...but will with the sbc. Both are carbed so with the right transmission I'm thinking interchange would be relatively easy if I had to swap them around to get through the bay. Anyone know if I'm horribly mistaken about that idea?

The immediate hunt is around the transmission, to make all this work, I need a transmission that can accept and live behind both motors (focusing on the bbc for power handling - if it can take bbc power than sbc power should be a walk in the park, focusing on the trans for interchangeability).

Feeling like all this ends up leading to another rear end swap, possibly a 12 bolt upgrade, bigger rear tires and fender flares, but at least the disc conversion is completed from the gov-lock IROC/z28 rear swap a few pages back.

So please chime in on transmissions, I REALLY want to go manual with it (conversion being planned)...but the straight line patterns just feel like automatics...a clutch and rowing pattern just makes me part of the car, personalizes the power curves...mmmmmm, donut......at least a 5th gear for the highway would be nice too...