ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, new to thirdgen, new to wrenching, -this is my first camaro.

The backstory....
Went looking for a project car...a toy. After a bit looking around I found a 1991 Camaro RS, V6 AT driveable (albeit 5 cylinders), good body/frame, virginian till 2005 so little to no rust, ok interior. 200K mi. $500.

Phase 1 was to baseline the car. I restored to functioning stock.
Top end-rebuild, brakes front and rear, cat-back replaced, rear shocks/springs, steering, ignition, tires, bulbs, mirrors, etc,etc,etc. (took my entire summer/fall but I had a blast, never got to see pistons in an engine before......).

She's now the car that I rebuilt...much chevy love. I named her Lucy.

Got my inspection sticker yesterday. She's runs like a champ now, albeit a V6 champ. Phase 1 completed. Yeah!!!

Moving on...

Phase 2. Perfomance upgrades. (what I know I'll need some help with) The big 2, the engine/trans swap.
(I want to post continuously as I move through the project, documenting every step).

What's you're thoughts on how I get started (the plan)?

Engine first/second? Engine+trans at once? Trans first second?

Budget considerations?

New or Salvage?

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

Glad to see you made it on here!
first off you need to decide on power range and budget. common swaps that are fuel injected related are popular ltx/lsx swaps more guys will tell you lsx is the way to go, more aftermarket support but alittle more pricey. Another option is always the TPI that came in F-bodies and Corvettes aswell. Or you can go with the traditional carbed small block aswell all depends on what your looking to do with the car

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.

Unless the engine is another V6, the only choice is engine and transmission together.

ZR1-IROC-RS

That's about what I'm thinking....
as far as what I'm looking to do with the car...drive it around, intimidate, maybe the occasional drag or pass, I may take it out for 0-60 and 1/4 mi. times though not regularly

...as a toy, I'm looking to join the 400+hp club...nice sound, great power, street usable...I figure it's my first major plateau.

Which engine has been a question I've been struggling with...The LS/LTs are definately in my sites...what I know is that one's alum. the other is iron...past that I need to know how many bolt mains (more is better?)...but otherwise they're from the same mold?

Is to salvage an engine? or to rebuild a crate? more cost effective, speaking generally...I'm on a budget, but a flexible within reason one...

Another question that's come up is that to keep the car street legal(Massachusetts) how does that limit what engine I can install?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Attached is the 'Just purchased pic' and some fun we had with the snow over the weekend...nice to visualize...

Dustin Fitch

hey hows it going. I too am about to start a project, looking for swap, on my 91 firebird 3.1. I have basic knowledge on motors but never opened one up and am determined to do MOST of the work myself. All the questions you asked I have been asking myself, what kind of engine to go with, which swap is pretty easy but low budget without using carbed. So as you go through I'll be keeping up with your posts. Good luck. I will be posting pics of mine pretty soon I just need to do a little welding on it tomarrow so I can get it off jacks

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

probably the cheapest fuel injection swap v8 you will find for your car wouldbe a tpi that you could get in a 3rd fbody, and like stated above all depends what your looking for for power and what you wanna do with the car

ZR1-IROC-RS

ok...well then what's everyone's thoughts on TPI 350 vs. LT1/LS1. The material I've read doesn't seem to point to the TPI 350 being a good base. The L-Series engines seem to have wider support and more potential than the TPI, and I was not horribly impressed with what I understand of the mechanics of the TPI intake engine, at least vs. the crossfire injection or L-Series reverse cooling.

I'm leaning to the L-series. Even though, I know the TPI is native to the car.

Basically, the path I think I'm following is towards a B4C build (special service police pursuit vehicle) which as I understand is an RS coupe (which I have)with Z28 drivetrain and suspension (which I'm working on).

With that in mind, the L-series engine I intend to start on the stand with a rebuild kit from either Jegs or Summit to drive the compression up to at least 11:1 (maximum street legal value so I understand, not that I expect an inspector will test my cylinder compression and since no more emissions testing on the car, based on the money, I intend to push it as high as I can safely go).

I figure the swap to the v8 will add about $2000-2500 in value to the car, and the suspension upgrade should add at least another $500-1000. Swapping to the 6-speed should be another grand, meaning once all this is completed the car should be worth $5G+. (not that I have any intentions of selling it anytime soon, working some chevy love, but as a matter of justifying the upgrade costs).

Given the power (and the T-Tops) twisting the frame will become a concern. So before the Engine(LT1 I think because I can supercharge it if I want and I feel like iron will holdup better than aluminum, is that right?)/Tranny swap(T56, Tremac, any ideas on a good 6-speed?), I feel like I should start with install prep.

1. Subframe connectors to keep her straight as an arrow.
-recommendations on parts that will later allow me to do
true duel exhaust possibly with side venting high load cutouts
2. Front end Suspension
-Other than Springs/Struts what else differs? ( I've located a V8
parts car in my local junkyard. Interior was gutted before I got
there, but suspension/drivetrain looked to be mostly intact)
3. Rear-End Swap
-Would you beleive I want an 8.5" posi 3.73 (4.11s seem like it'd
be too much and I'd need the 9" ford rear which installing ford
parts in a chevy just doesn't feel right), where should I be
looking?
4. Engine/Tranny/Computer/Exhaust all at once
-LT-1 supercharged w/Vortec heads, T56 (or comparable 6-
speed), Chipped/Programmable ECM, true duel 3(.5)" headers to
tail (with a bolt in/out swappable single-duel pipe for
inspectability (visual CAT check still takes place))

meaning the engine will be last on the list (which gives me time to find and rebuild a good engine.)

So let's chat about true duel exhaust compatible subframe connectors.
Any ideas?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Some break through on parts..

Today, I've been finishing up the heater core tear down. I only disembled alot more dash than I needed to. it wasn't too bad once I pulled the Computer assembly down and the rachet extension could slide up and over the core cover. Problem...

The replacement core I received has slightly different sides and won't accept the stock bracket system...I'm now contacting radiator shops to diagnose and repair the stock core...

For reference, the core was actually disconnected and bypassed when I bought the car...now that it's cold (and I want to keep road testing her) I need some heat and defrost...so I did infer (and I know I shouldn't do that) that it was a common core failure issue and was bypassed to stop it leaking(ref. some other threads on TG) and once I pulled the core, I can see the corrosion of the copper on the side (dripping) to along the bottom...

...coming back from the parts store where the guy gave me zip ties and told me to rachet it down tight (HA!!!...apparently he believes I wanted it 'half a***d), I was driving (40-ish) by the tow place and off a road running parallel a quarter mile away I could see the backside of a small Mom'n'Pop junkyard, I spotted what I thought was a white Iroc perched on top of a shell of a school bus. So I hit the cross street over to it and stopped to check the situation out (I've had difficulties finding good salvage parts these days, lots got crushed when metal prices went up). I found a STASH of at least 4 third gen's(largely intact...I may even pull a full stock 4th gen. GTA rims, lots of S10s, lot's of TBs, ZR-2s, 4th gens,...all in various states....up till now I had only found a single junked camaro and firebird and very little truck availability. I took a mental inventory...but I know where my first stop will be....when it rains it purs chevy salvage parts!!!

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

Seems to me if you could pull a complete 4th gen fbody out of this salvage yard youd have a very good start, as long as harness, engine, pcm, tranny are all there. Then depending how complete the car is, you could swap the rear end aswell, and some of the interior. keep your eye out for good salvage yards, i cant find any with fbodys that arent totally stripped by me.

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

A wrecked 4th gen will give you all the little bits to make your swap and not go nuts looking for odds and ends. The LT1's still have the same mounting bosses for the engine mounts and are a little easier to transplant if you are happy with 300-400hp depending on mods. If you have money to buy tubular crossmembers then an LS1 would be the way to go. Either way you get them both with a great 6spd trans. My 2 cents.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Yeah, I think I've decided to looks for a truck LT1 Vortec (6.0L) and 6spd, but I thought the LT1 could see in the 600HP neighborhood (though I'm shooting to break 400hp).

Update: the guy at Tony's radiator shop cleared the core lines and resoldered the tanks back onto the heater core and pressure tested it. good to go for $20. now to reassemble the dash...heat will be nice
----------
Maybe we can work together on finding some of these parts...IIRC you had some parts to unload, what do you need that I could keep an eye out for?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The 6.0 "Vortec" is LS-based, not LT-based.

CNECOPS

This is going to be very interesting - I've read your entire thread here and am convinced you and I are beginning the same journey. However, I'm opting to sit back and watch how things work out for you before I dive in haha. I don't even have a camaro yet because I'm going to use incredibly informative and interesting threads like this to gather enough information to plan EVERYthing out first.

One main difference between you and I - I'm leaning towards the LS series. What I've read about the engines is sort of black and white - it seems that people are either crazy about them or feel they're a waste of money. Regardless of their support, an LSx is certainly going to be a whole hell of a lot more work to install then something else.

So yah, I'll be sitting and watching haha. Good luck and help out whenever I can. Congratulations on taking a chance on wrenching!

CNECOPS

2 quick questions - why go with a wrecked car's engine and trans rather than a crate. I mean, obviously it's three of four times more but isn't that worth more in resale in the longrun? Just wondering. Also, when you purchased your car for 500 (which, I'm assuming, was within the pricerange you'd set before looking), what did you look for? I've had some recommend that for a 400+ vehicle like you and I are looking to build it is better to build up from the ground and then others have said it is better to find cheap cars with popped engines but that have brand new, recently installed brake kits, suspension, rear end - things like that. What did you look for when you shopped for the car?

a PM would be nice haha.

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

Budget and opinions. Yes you can get an LT1 to 600HP. If 600 fwhp is your goal it will be cheaper to get an LS1 into that territory and offset the minor additional expenses fitting a GenIV drive train. If you hate wiring you'll notice that LT1 harness is simpler than the thirdgen and the LSx are even simpler still.

CNECOPS:
I converted my 2.8L auto car to an LT1 6spd. Working from a '95 T/A I got things like the radiator, dual fans, dual fan control relays, engine accessories, clutch pedal assembly, disk brake rear axle (replaced mith Moser), air intake and MAF, forward engine harness for fans, under dash harness for VATS, starting, fuel pump relays... Lots of little fasteners and a clear template of what its supposed to look like. I would like to freshen up my 144K short block. But for now it runs fine.

ZR1-IROC-RS

I thought "Vortec" refered to the heads...LS/LT being blocks...are there differences in the bolt pattern?

ZR1-IROC-RS

Unfortunately I've come to realize there is no such thing as planning "everything" out. Too much unexpected happens in teardown that affects rebuild. Bolts snap, the drill comes out...retap by hand, replacement bolts don't thread far enough and need to manually extend the die, you find a cracked valve cleaning a head and you teardown farther (just from my own summer example) I had fun, buts it's a hobby so the work is gratis.

As far as the LS goes, if I had unlimitted time and funds it'd be the way I'd go. But I'm a 'newb' and I don't trust myself to do something that expensive and elaborate (yet, I'll definately get one in "Muscle Car II: The Corvette" coming Summer 2017...the 2006 Z06 LS7 6spd)...but the LT1 seems more budgetarily realistic, accomplishes the 400+ hp target of the project and gets the advantages of the Gen II FI Chevy design, and is from what I can tell an 'Intermediate' difficulty level. I beleive it to be the 'right' choice for 'Lucy'.
That's as specfic as the plan gets so far.

Though feel free to share what you learn, I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just kind of doing it.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Those are two questions anyways, I don't know about quick, but here my logic about it.

A wrecked car is useless, I'm not looking for wrecked cars, I'm looking for good condition oem replacement parts for salvage. As far as the engine is concerned, I want to put a "built" engine in the car.
11:1 Compression. If you price crate engines beefed up to that level the internals and build costs drive those motors +5K plus neighborhood. to buy a lesser crate tear it down and rebuild it up to 11:1 still puts it in that pricey area. As far as the boneyard engine...I'm not really looking for an engine so much as a rebuildable core block for. I intend to strip, bore, hone, swap heads, etc.,etc. Resale wise if I put a $10k motor swap into this car it just won't balance out for another 20 years or so, so I figure if I can get a good rebuildable block for a few hundred bucks, another couple hundred to strip and recondition, I can spend the couple thousand on high-end top, bottom, and internals and I have a "remanufactured" built up engine that for all intents and purposes will have 0 miles on it that I'll have complete options as to how it is built from cam to pistons to seals and so on.

As for my approach to shopping for the car...I wanted a project car, motor/tranny considerations were thrown out entirely, my requirements were simple...good body/frame, cheap...this one was a southern camaro until 2005...it has very little/no rust issues, granted there is some surface, but I'm cleaning as I'm going. The budget I had was up to $1500/2000...for $500 purchase and $1000 to street legal yes I hit the $1500 mark for the car and I'm comfortable it's a solid...But I was going out to buy a good look, I saw some mustangs, at least a goiod 9 months I was looking at anything and everything from 67-emmisions disqualification weighing restoration costs vs. driveability vs. etc.. Honestly I wasn't looking for anything as new as a 1991 because it still had emmissions to pass...but in researching one day I heard that the emiss. req. in mass. were changing to OBD II only and the word was that 1995 and early cars were going to become emiss exempt 6 months later. I was difficult to get a straight and definative answer that far ahead of the change...so I bought this camaro taking a reasonably informed chance that I'd get a 'Loophole' Classic out of the deal which really did end up working out nice. As the Camaros from my father's youth (first gen/second gen) are the collector's cars of today, the third gen was the camaro from my youth and by the time I get it perfect it will probably be a collector's car. The styling and lines just speak 'Street Racer' to me and with the grumble of the sbc beast under the hood it's going to sound that way too.

Other than that, it was used car shopping for me...figuring I was buying someone elses problems...the fact that I was able to drive this home with very little rust just in need of some TLC for $500, I figured that gave me a good base. Everything else, suspension, rear-end, engine, trans, exhaust, etc. I intended to build/change my own for performance...the perfecet toy car...buying the car for me was about buying a shell to put it all in. Anything else was considered a bonus.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Well no, 600 Hp, while fun, isn't really something I need to have in a drive around street rod...but I figure capability of that should mean it could take 400 easy and if I want to induct it later for an extra hundred horse or so, I figure I can.

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

The donor car for me was a 94 Z/28 hit in the front left corner. the damage wasnt that bad where it affected anything i was going to use from the car. i paid 1200 for the car, and i had everything i would need to do my swap, it was a highly optioned Z/28 with everything but a 6 speed and leather. had posi/disc rear. i was able to have all that i would need from the car to do my swap. i wasnt looking for my donor car, it just sort of worked out at the right time found it online and did some research and got a good deal on the car. i got some extra parts with the car that i have sold, and i sold the shell of the car minus engine, tranny, and seats for $300, so in turn buying the wrecked car, and parting some of it out and selling the remander allowed me to have gotten back half my money from the car. personally, i believe its cheaper to get a wrecked car, and have everything you need already on the car, than to try to buy an engine block, then buy a harness, then a pcm, then dual fans etc. i just think its more cost effective to find a wrecked donor car you can get for cheap. just my two cents...

ZR1-IROC-RS

I'm with you there, it isn't that I just want the engine block, rebuilding an engine just seemed the best way to get a motor I know wasn't beat to hell before I got it.

As far as parts cars though don't get me wrong, I'm keeping an eye out. Parts car + LT1(92-98 4th gen?) reasonably priced would be a great find for me too. for your 1200 sounds like you did real well. It's an option I'm definately looking at...I have time presently so shopping all options.

To update:

The heater core is in (though I still have to reassemble the dash I didn't need to disassemble...I tested through a full coolant cycle and "LUCY HAS HEAT"...didn't see any leaks...didn't empty the coolant system, just clamped off, lost a couple drops...now I can drive her through the winter and work on the interior until the snows melt.......(and I can be warm while doing it and take advantage of that yard)

And in regards to that yard...I've learned I have some competition for parts...drove past there yesterday and saw a black 3rd gen fbird parked out front (never drive your project car to the yard )...time is not on my side now and my only advantage now is that he doesn't know about me and may believe time is on his side. Planning a massive strip walk through for interior and the 'hard-to-find's over the next couple days, they open up again on monday and temperatures are supposed to be back up a bit though it might be a little damp. Anyone local enough to 01020 who's interested, PM me, two, or three guys can grab alot more than one...cooperation

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

im not sure how far i am from you but im in turners falls 01376, dont really have money to spend, but willing to give a hand depending on the drive.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Update. The upper dash and blower cover is back together...road testing resumed today...now that she can warm up to it. Lucy is actually doing useful work as a car ...I'll get the lower dash back together eventually, but instrument/console lighting is a bit of a nighttime concern (nothing too critical, I can still see what I'm doing, but there's a bunch that have to be changed so they're on the winter interior to-do list). May also try and address some of the heavier rattling this week.

Known mechanical concerns to date:

Starter - intermitent weak/no start (limping until Spring)
R. Transmission seal - minor leak (watching fluid levels)
Oil Change - Just have to get around to it, but might just pay to have it done this time of the year.

Tomorrow, I'm going to inventory the 3rd/4th gens in the yard by snapping pics of there RPO codes. Then I'll know what I've got to work with outside of impulse stripping.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Alright, swept through the yard...$40 netted me a FULL heater vent set, seatbelt loops, console pad, hood emblem, some dash filler panels, original T-Top bags, drvrs iroc tail plate lens assembly, bunch of fasteners, a 2.8L MAF, the 2.8L over the radiator higher flowing intake bracket (with 2 good filters), buddy gave me the intake but couldn't tell me what it was for or how to get in attached to the 3.1L...so now I know ....)....no motors/trans in the 4th gens...3rd gens are all v6s....between the two yards I should be able to finish out the interior, maybe grab a front fender/door, some gfx, spare tops, had a good solid camaro taillight set(not grid style), some of the under dash panels, and between all the fourth gens I think I counted a full set of stock 5 spoke 15" alum. rims unrashed.

...I told the guy I'd be out there all spring/summer/fall if he doesn't crush the cars (thank GOD the bottom on scrap fell out!!)

89RsPower!

LTX and LSX have almost nothing in common, its not a simple one is iron and one is aluminum, they almost nothing in common. As far as number of bolts in the main cap, not that big of a deal, though LSX's have 6 bolt mains where as LTX's have either 2 or 4.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Sorry...You're right, I should have been clearer in what I was talking about...I used the 'X' here to indicate a "fill in number", I forgot GM released the LSX block at $15K (way out of budget, not even a consideration, though I wasn't aware they were making an LTX)...specifically for comparison though...I was talking about interchanging Vortec heads (I was told they were LS-n series heads) onto an LT1 block? Are there differences in the bolt pattern?
----------
...and I meant head bolts, not main cap bolts...the 4 bolt mains are the target for me.

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

Nope, not a lot of head choices for reverse coolant flow LT1's (Gen2 small block). Factory aluminum, factory iron from B-bodies, Twisted Wedge, AFR, Edlebrock. My research points to getting factory F-body or corvette heads ported. Vortec (Gen1) and LS (Gen3 & 4) won't fit.

ZR1-IROC-RS

I can like the idea of ported corvette heads, too ...I hadn't looked into it too deeply yet, I just heard the Vortec heads were some of the best flowing so I thought I should ask around...
----------
Note: Anyone having a passenger side IROC grid style tail to liquidate, PM me, please.

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the fabbed ZR-1 taillight assembly for the 3rd gen camaros? I saw it out on, I think it was Hawkes, and it piqued my curiousity. Anyone got thoughts on that? Seen it installed, or got pics?

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

The corvette lt4 heads will prolly cost you alittle more than the fbody or bbody heads. nothing wrong with getting the stock heads ported. if you go that route most lt1 guys tend to look for the casting number heads that end in 374. just some food for thought

ZR1-IROC-RS

Budget on the engine is a bit flexible....the LT1 I think is going to be the ideal platform to swap in (cost vs. hp)...when it comes to heads...do you know any approx. numbers for LT1 to various heads combos? Is there like some theoretical statistic or something I could work from or work out some estimated numbers?

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

are you talking flow numbers or hp numbers

ZR1-IROC-RS

Well...I presume higher flow in + higher flow out = higher output...at least up to a point....so I guess the flow rates would be something I should plan out as they would ultimately determine the output of the engine. I also presume (if graphed) it works out to some kind of curve where at some point increasing the valve flow rate doesn't affect the hp output significantly anymore and the idea I would think is to get as close to that point as possible without damaging/weakening the hardware...hp I figure is the cumulative end, having the right flow numbers I'm thinking is the key to affecting hp growth...as logical and reasonable as that line of thinking is, would that be correct?

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

The basic idea is to get the air into the engine and get the exhaust out for best flow, you not only want good flowing heads but a matched intake to increase efficency and the omst importan is a well matched cam to the heads. there are a few big names who do it, popular ones are advanced inductions and lloyd elliot. you ship them your heads and intake, and they will be ported and you can buy a cam to match.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ah...yeah, as far as matching heads/cams/intakes...gonna needs some advice when the time comes...back to engine shopping and interior for now. If anyone knows/has any good straight LT1 engine deals pm me pls.

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

hey not sure if it is you or not but a car like yours is for sale on craigslist wasnt sure if it was yours or not

ZR1-IROC-RS

Bit of an update...apparently the tail extensions on my exhaust were not welded as I thought. Out the other night, lost an extension and a tip. Couldn't remove the other extension, so either it's rusted or heat fused. Basically I've already got a replacement tip ($10)...now I'm trying to find a cheap (hopefully free from my buddy at the auto shop) replacement extension of the right length (or a little longer to cut)...this time I'll be tapping in bolts from tail to extension and as long as I'm at it, though I had no issues with them, drilling the extension the tip bolts. Also found the universal hanger on the walker pipe had slipped out its bolt (somewhere on the road, who knows what happened to it) and I bought a factory replacement hanger to replace it that didn't come with bolts...does anybody know the size, threading, and torque specs for the hanger bolts (the ones that mate to the frame for the walker pipe hook just over and after the rear axle)?

iroc1793

iTrader: (2)

any update? decide on a engine swap? or still searching??

ZR1-IROC-RS

Currently, working on getting a right exhaust extension (at the right price), still looking for the engine....had some guy try to sell me his 1991 camaro as a 350...I took the block casting numbers and told him he was trying to sell me a 305 with a replaced passenger fender, poorly repainted, and some obvious deformation in the passenger door area, a full inch and a half punched inward so either it was twisted really badly or, I'm of the mind, it was hit....I passed on the car after I told him lemon law, completely uninspectable as was, and the 'junk' status of the car put a $750 cap on the price 'for parts', he said fine but he wouldn't go any lower, and I didn't want to pay $750 for a motor I didn't really want, a spoiler, and the passenger side tail lens....I let it drop....if he gets desperate and calls back up, I'll give him $200-300, much better than the junk yard will give him. Heck maybe he'll find some dumb kid to dish it off on for more, but I know the problems I'd be buying now...

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

Hijack in progress: IROC1793, how much vacuum are you pulling at idle with the LT1 in your signature? I'm curious about the idle quality.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, an update...the weather has warmed up a bit, so I've been able to proceed with the exhaust repair....parts hunting yesterday...C.A.P. had the 15" straight extension 2.25 I.D. pipes I needed...one in store, grabbing the other tmw. Today, I was able to remove the remaining 12" extension. Took about 20 mins. Warmed up the exhaust (gave me an excuse to warm up the car and move her out off the icesheet in the driveway that I spent probably about 2 hours yesterday breaking up around the drive wheel after sitting for a week in sand and salt and being still unable to move her off it, all with a hammer and spike) used my trusty ball peen a 3/4" spike to split into the attaching end and after driving the split a good 2.5" into the pipe, leveraged the bottom and CLANG it hit the ground. Now the pipes will match and be more stable when I drill bolts into the connections this time.... The tear down is complete. Now on to build up. Still unsure of the specs on the attaching bolts for the hanger, but I'm going to tap them for a coarse thread 5/16 bolt and torque it down to about 25-30 ft/lbs. I have to return the stock hanger I bought (apparently the hook location on the walker pipe I purchased is not in the stock location, though I'm hoping to find one I can look at and compare first just in case) and exchange it for a universal that can reach the lower walker hook. Today, I'm hoping to get the extension I have prepared (drilled for the mounting screws) and possibly pick up the missing hanger. No problems today with the starter solenoid either...still unreliable but at least it appears to respond to the more regular use it's been getting positively.

I also got around to installing the nose mounting bracket for the 2.8L intake, had to reset the hood latch and reroute the latch cable, but it looks like it'll take with just the extension of the sensor wiring (MAF will be non functional, no 3.1L MAF electronics and not sure if the computer could deal with it but installing it anyways as a spacer. ...)

ZR1-IROC-RS

Update: , the warm weather served me well. Exhaust rehung, extensions replaced with lockdown screws tapped, tips installed, also tapped. damn thing ain't going anywhere now..., Lucy is back into daily service...,engine hunting is BACK ON...

ZR1-IROC-RS

Great news!!! While I'm still looking for an engine, I recognize that some prep work prior to installation of a 350 is required, some of which I've probably mentioned in previous posts. Now while I have a 'general' idea of what needs to be upgraded, any information anyone could contribute to that end would be greatly appreciated. I digress...

This season, (as we're almost into spring now) my goals are to address the drivetrain and front suspension upgrades, and prep the body for a show paint job after the engine is installed (and possibly the 6 speed, but I think I can swap a tranny w/o scratching the hell out of the car seeing as it's underneath) probably next year (or very late this year if it works out that the engine is ready).

So I believe I found the first drivetrain upgrade. Going thurs. to pick up a new (used) rear axle...10 bolt disc brake rear (J65) claimed to be 3.73s (G92) (the guy told me it was out of an 86 z28, which checks out with the drivetrain list for the 3.73 performance ratio in the tech data section, but apparently 3.73s had very limited distro. in 3rdgen camaros other than the 86)...and he was unsure of whether posi was installed or not (G80).

So does anybody know how I should test/verify this thing short of pulling the inspection cover (which if I'm allowed to onsite, great I will, but I'm not counting on it).

Is there anything I could be sure of just because it's disc brakes? known manufacturing requirements or the like (usually a performance rear option it would seem)?

Differential markings/numbers?

Right now...I'm thinking...the disc brakes are visual, no worries.

Assuming it's not frozen, I believe I can verify the posi by turning one axle by hand while my buddy holds the other axle and if I can spin mine without spinning his it's non-posi and if they must spin together it's posi. Is that right?

As for the gear ratio, since the rear is out of the car, if I turn the axle 3 3/4 turns (3.75) I should see the driveshaft yoke make only a single revolution (approximately, 3.73/3.75 is almost indistinguishable, but admittedly it should come up a hair over one). But I figure it'd show a 2.73, 3.23, or even 3.42, pretty obviously. Is that correct?

Also I figure all this manual turning will tell me whether the internal gears are all chewed up or something - clicking, knocking, play, whatever. Does that make sense?

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

I don't like doomsaying, but its really unrealistic to expect the clutches in an '86 posi to not be long gone. Take a pry bar with you. Have the buddy hold the driveshaft yoke still with the bar. As you rotate a tire forward, the other will rotate backwards as the spider gears climb around each other on an open differential (non-posi). Doesn't want to spin: Great, posi and some clutches left.

Backwards on the gear ratio. You and the buddy each turn a wheel the same direction and speed (to keep the differential out of the equation) and the yoke should go 'round 3.73 times. The difference between a 3.42 and 3.73 is over 90 degrees, easy to see the difference.

There will be play even in a good axle. Any up/down bearing play at the wheel flange is bad. In/out is normal c-clip axle slop.
Rotational slop is hard to quantify. 45degrees of pinion play with both wheels blocked is bad. Not sure what a good one would be, 15 degrees? No clicking, knocking or lumpy feel while spinning anything.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok...good to know on the posi check, easy enough....

the gear ratio thing though, as I understood it, was more wheel rotations per driveshaft rotation...being the reason higher was better...but if it's the other way around, and the yoke should turn 3.73 time per one axle rotation, doesn't that mean the higher the gear ratio the more work the driveshaft has to do the make the axle spin (and the less efficiently power is transfered)? wouldn't less driveshaft rotations per axle rotation be more desirable then and the lower gear ratio be better than a higher one?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Depends upon what you're trying to accomplish. If fuel economy or high-end vehicle speed, you want a lower number gear ratio. If accelerating the vehicle with a given amount of power, you want a higher number gear ratio.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Ok, it's official...I have a disc brake rear end assembly...chrome diff cover, calipers,rotors,even the shocks and trailing arms are there. Supposed to be a 3.73...might be a posi...I'll find out later today when I pull the cover. Verifying onsite didn't go very well, but I locked the driveshaft and couldn't turn the axle so I guess I'll see. $75, for the disc rear anyways. OOh the anticipation!...the guy I got it from was an all out gear head....had a go cart (it's on craigslist under RVs if anyone's interested) full custom job, from steering to motor to pipe stacks....no lie, the damn thing shot blue flame....wow...big old lifted 454 mud truck, 4 car garage two engine's on stands, lifts, chains, parts everywhere, looked more like a shop than a garage. Left me very confident in the idea that he was straight up and knew what he was doing. More on the rear to come later.

ACCLR8N

iTrader: (8)

Nope, driveshaft always spins more than the axles. Thats why higher numbers give better acceleration because you are giving the engine a bigger lever to move the car with. Lower ratio numbers give you better fuel economy as long as they aren't so low the engine doesn't have enough power to cruise.

Good score on the axle! It would be unlikely he has all that equipement and doesn't know what he's talking about.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Hmmm....disappointment sucks...popped the cover...and...

the ring is marked 13:42 (3.23) 7 5/8...no posi...came from an 86 z28 manual tranny...it's not a total loss. It's the same rear I already have except drums for discs. I'm going to call the guy (Gabe) and see what he has to say about it.

ZR1-IROC-RS

Yet another update...Talked with Gabe...he was very apologetic, the information he gave me was the info he was given. He's going to either refund me $25, or for another $50 he'll give me four new coil springs and the entire front suspension/brake/panhard bars setup (short of the front clip, which I don't need anyway I don't think to go from v6->v8)...so he's making good, for $125 (total) I can get the entire z28 suspension/brakes I need for my engine upgrade. I think I'm going to take the parts unless anyone can give me a compelling reason not to? , buy a gear set and a posi and an engine and I should be good to go.