Ok, so I'm taking my 87 T/A with a 305TPI and 700R4, and am swapping in a Carb'd Chevy 400 Small Block. I'm also taking the opportunity to completely restore the exterior of the car. I'm replacing the fenders, hood, and fixing the bumper, and will be painting the entire car TCPGlobal's Cobalt Firemist Mettalic, and re-painting the GFX Silver Mettalic. I'm going to start another thread over in "body" for the exterior work, if anyone want's to take a look at that, but for now, (the engine work will be first) I will focus on the swap.
The 400 is a virgin block, hasn't been bored out (pistons are flat-top and say STD), and was rebuilt around 3,000 miles ago, as confirmed by the VERY light wear on the block/pistons. Since their flattops, i'm using a pair of 487x casting heads, with 75CC chambers, and 2.02" 1.60" valves. They have been mildly ported up around the valve stem area in the runners, so they should flow quite nicely, and still be streetable. Plus I have aluminum roller-rockers on i t+ double valve springs.
I have a "Engine Pro" Cam I got from the local Speed Shop, It has a .050 duration of 224 234 and a valve lift of .465 .488 with a lobe seperation of 107 117. I couldn't go any bigger, because A: I wanted it to be streetable, and B: because I don't want to put a higher stall converter in my tranny.
I was going to Hone the cylinders, but when I removed the oil pan, I decided that no-one other than a machine shop should touch it, because the whole rotating assembly has been balanced, not to mention I think at least the crank might be forged, or at least aftermarket cast. So I'm leaving them the way they are, there is almost NO markings on the cylinder walls, they are practically perfect (hence the confirmation of only 3,000 miles).
I'm using a Edelbrock Performer manifold, and a Edelbrock 600CFM carb for right now, which is going to hurt my horsepower I know, because with the 400, it won't be able to get enough air past 4000RPM, but frankly, it's the torque I care about, and it gives me something to think about and do later when, not if, I get bored...
I already has a billet aftermarket HEI distributer on it, so I don't need to do anything there, and I just got new wires for my 305! lol.
I'm already running with the "long-tube" headers that flowtech makes for thirdgens, although, they arn't really long-tube at all. And I have the exhaust routed from them, over to each side, where they go into dual Thrush Glasspacks, and then out the side right before the rear tires. I don't have cats right now, becuase I didn't have the money at the time of putting in the exhaust to by TWO! of them, I'll do it later though, I can just put one downstream of each muffler or something. Might as well be a LITTLE environment friendly... (says the guy whose about to get 12 miles to the galon...)
That's all I can think of for now, any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Oh, two specific questions, how do I hook up my AFPR? And what motor mounts should I get to support 450+ Ft.Pounds? Thanks alot guys!
Stuart

 

AFPR - Supply line to inlet port, return line to return port, new line to carb on outlet port.

Motor mounts - Poly replacement inserts for the chassis side. Everything else factory V8.

 

thanks! so I deffinatly need the 3-port AFPR? the guy at the auto parts store said I just needed to cap off the return line, and use a 2-port... But he might not know what he's talking about... lol.

 

A 2-port dead head regulator is a great way to kill an in-tank electric pump. Tell the parts store guy you'll buy that reg if he'll pay for and replace the in-tank pump every time it dies.

 

lol, now I'm glad I asked! Thanks man, I'll go back and get another one. I'm sooo glad I have this forum to ask questions on, I would never have jumped in with both feet like this if I didn't have the info you guys have all shared. Thanks again!

 

ok, I just gave up finding a 3-port, and bought a mechanical fuel pump (I'm not racing, so I could care about top-level performance), but I want to know, can I suck the fuel through one of the existing lines, if I disconnect the electric in-tank TPI pump? Or will that not work? Thanks!
Stuart

 

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...115+4294849160

Not a good plan. Sometimes it works okay for idle and cruise, but rarely works well for any kind of power. It's also a recipe for vapor lock.

 

ok, thanks for the info, I'll just drop the tank then, and put a carb pickup in. Thanks again.
Stuart

 

I may have the same issues, i have an 86 iroc i took the 305 out, and dropped in a 350, crane cam, Brodix alluminum heads, headers,took cat out, and put the tpi back on for now till i recovered from that expense.,it ran SLOWER! i took it to the track before the swap, 15.50s, now its 15.90s.
i know it would need to have a new prom made, but i dont think i will get the full horsepower i can get with tpi, unless i spend another countless thousands of dollars and months of tuning and tweaking, i am thinking intake ,carburator and electric fuel pump-Bam i am done!, I am not sure how i can put an outside the tank electric fuel pump on it though. we do plan on going to the track and i know this car should run high 12 seconds at worst.

 

well, I'm not an expert by any means (hence all the questions) but my guess would be you're intake setup. although, do you have an automatic tranny? if so what's the stall, and how radical a cam did you put in there? the wrong combo might be hurting your times. but frankly, not THAT much. The fact of the matter is, the tpi system just can't handle top end, AT ALL. my 305 died out at like, 4K. And I mean DIED OUT, almost no power past that. A bigger engine is just going to be worse, so it could end up going slower, because it dies out faster. My suggestion, is either use an AFPR, or get a new fuel pump and go carb'd. I just used a mechanical fuel pump, dropped the tank and replaced the electric tpi pump in there with a rubber hose pickup for my mechanical. It seems to work great! I started the 400 up for the first time last night, and she has almost 10psi of fuel preassure and runs GREAT. now, for the throttle linkage...... One point though, dropping the tank and putting it back in took me and two other people more than a full day, it was HORRIBLE WORK, and it was empty! So if it's a toss up, use an AFPR like the mallory one listed in that link above. I didn't use one because I didn't have time to wait for it to get here. Good Luck!

 

Wow, that is a long time. i dropped my tank and installed my ls1 tank in my third gen in about 1.5hours including time to make mods the new tank.

 

I think mine was messed up, the metal straps that held it in were extremely difficult to get to fit into their brackets. I'm just glad it's done now! and my engine is running! and MAN does it sound sweet... sigh... Oh, and by the way, O MY GOD, the air the 400 pumps out!!!! it was blowing stuff across the shop floor... at least double what the 305 put out... (wipes away a tear...) so beautiful...
Stuart

 

I dont think i would have to drop the tank, underneath the carpet somebody cut a hole in the floor to get to the sending unit before, and cut the lines and replaced with short rubber hoses., they botched up the cover , but i made a real neat riveted in cover and seam sealed it in. (Talked to some mechanics, it seems to be an acceptable practice by a lot of shops) I am thinking of doing the same thing, replacing the factory pump with a hose to get to the bottom of tank. Will an aftermarket high volume mechanical pump fit allright between the block and frame with headers?
By the way, automatic car(shift kit) factory stall, crane# 113941 lift-.459/.486 -- Duration 268/280
If i go carb, that cam will come out and a bigger one will go in.

 

There is a sticky in the top section of the Carburetor forum that details a better way than a piece of hose to convert an EFI pick-up to mechanical.

An electric pump should be in or near the tank. They push a lot better than they suck. In front of the rear axle is the typical mounting point chosen.

 

ok, so stupid question, but what's the best way to add pics to my thread?
Stuart

 

When you reply, either click on "Manage Attachments", or insert an img link.

 

ok, here are some pics before and after the swap. There kind of fuzzy I know, I took them with my cell phone, which takes 3MP pics, but they tend to be fuzzy if you don't hold it PERFECTLY STILL while you take the picture.

 

what intake and carburetor did you go with?

 

I used the Edelbrock Performer, and the edelbrock 600CFM(I think it's 600...) I don't really care about top end right now. Hey guys, I do have a problem though, I drove it for like, 10 miles, and I noticed some smoke... I'm lost almost all the oil out of the front-seal! turns out I have EXCESSIVE blow-by! What the HECK???? It ran perfect at first, then all of a sudden, it starts puffing out things that look almost like smoke-rings out the valve covers when I take the breathers off! I realized I didn't have my pcv hooked up right, I fixed that, but it still blows ALOT of oily air through the OTHER breather!!!! I am soo lost, and the thing is, it runs SO WELL I honestly have never heard a carbed engine run so smooth, and yet with such a lope at idle, I don't get it. And when I pulled it apart to check it out when I bought it, the cylinders and pistons were PERFECT I can't imagine the rings are bad? Unless the guy overheated it once, parked it and pulled it, then sold it just in case... I'm tempted to fix the main seal, and just pipe the excess back into the carb, and see how it runs. Thoughts???? Thanks guys.

 

Ok, so I tested the compression in some of the cylinders, and ended up not bothering with more than 4 it was soooo bad. #1: 155PSI #3: 180PSI #5: 100PSI #7: 75PSI!!!! I mean, that's just ridiculous. My guess is that the guy overheated it BAD and the rings collapsed, so he sold it quick, before it really started to show signs... I'm going to have to take the whole D*** thing out again... But, the good news is, all the hard work of converting from TPI to Carb in the first place will stay done! The engine actually being put in was the easy part. I'm going to start ordering head-gaskets etc. now. You guys have any recomendations? I don't think i'm having it bored out, it really doesn't need it, but I will hone it, and get new rings. Any thoughts on the rings? also, I don't think the oil pump is high-volume, should I do something about that to? If so, a melling or something? Thanks.

 

Sorry to hear. Hope you get it sorted out. Like you said the hard stuff is done.

 

I'd say you don't yet know whether or not you'll need to bore the cylinders. If severely overheated, you may have bought yourself a coffee table stand.

 

what specifically do I need to look for? I checked them when I pulled the heads off at first, and they don't have bad (if any at all) scoring, and there is pretty much no ridge. and the rest shows no bad signs, I'm thinking he collapsed the rings once, and they are not sealing now.

 

I mean, I would think something else was wrong, except that it obviously maintained good oil pressure whenever this thing (whatever it was) happened, that messed up the rings, because it blows NO smoke, and has no other problems, all the bearings are good. I took off a rod-cap and checked it, it was fine.

 

I'll freely admit I don't know everything, but I've never heard of "collapsing rings". They either wear or break. If they break, they will score the cylinders.

Before you tear it down, take a complete compression check, both dry and wet. You may have leaking valves or blown head gasket.

By the way, did you measure the cylinders? You said very little wear and recently rebuilt, which don't add up to "virgin cylinders". Standard pistons are pretty rare for a rebuilt engine. If the pistons are standard and the cylinders worn and just honed, standard rings won't seal properly.

 

ok, UGH! I Finally found out what was wrong. The rings and PISTONS! were completely trashed. The top rings and their ledges were shattered, my guess is he didn't really know what he was doing, because he mentioned that he ran it on pump gas with 11.5-1 compression. I'm thinking he just pinged so bad he smashed the pistons to bits. Anyways, I just took it in to the local speed shop to have it bored 30 over, and get new pistons, have them mounted on the rods, recondition the rods, polish the crank, etc... I should get it back within a week. So I've started on the outside, and the interior work. I've been thinking though, what are the limits of the tpi system? I mean, I've been told they have more torque, but low horsepower. Is this the case? I mean, to get equevelent performance out of my 400 that I get with a 600CFM carb and Performer intake, what would I have to do? one of those aftermarket minirams or whatever? also, if I got aftermarket injectors (by the way, would I need those?) would I have to do any programing? that's the main thing I can't do. If I can simply stick my electronics into an aftermarket intake setup, will that work? I'm just looking to sound out the subject. Thanks Guys!
Stuart

 

yes you can swap and put fuel injection on it, but you gotta have your prom programmed. if you dont it will run super slow because it isnt getting the air.(which is the problems i am having) but if your just wanting to reprogram your chip, F.A.S.T will do it for 350 dollars and everytime you want it reprogrammed is 100 dollars after that. the mini ram intake is the only thing i would put on if i keep fuel injection, but im still thinkin to carburetor on it and takin out t.p.i. let me know what you decide on

 

why would having the prom programmed effect air flow, I can understand it effecting FUEL flow, because the computer controls the injectors, but, to my understanding, the butterfly valve/throttle body is the ONLY thing that effects how much AIR is allowed in the engine...

And on another note, how come you're prom needs to be programmed anyways for anything? I mean, don't you always want the same fuel/air ratio? barring a cold engine etc... I'm just trying to wrap my head around this stuff, I mean, you run the same carb on two engines, and it does not "reprogram" itself based on the engine you put it on does it?

My brain hurts...

 

well my engine builder told me i was getting fuel and i wasnt getting the air. my car seems like its running too rich but you can definately tell its lacking air because it doesnt have no umph at all, and suddenly at about 3700 rpm it picks up for a second and then its time to shift. the chip controls all fuel/air/spark. im pretty sure the chip has to have some control over the air. its got sensors in the throttle body so maybe its telling it how much air it needs? fuel injection isnt my specialty really but i know you need to get your chip reprogrammed.

 

The computer controls fuel, spark, EGR, and where the A.I.R. goes in the exhaust system, but it doesn't control air going into the combustion chamber.

If the engine is getting too much fuel, that represents too little air. But, the computer isn't keeping it from getting enough air.

 

there ya go

 

Hey Guys, it has been Soooo long I know, but things got rather crazy... I'm finished with the engine work now! I actually ended up rebuilding it twice... Long story... after I had it bored out .03, I was running 9.6-1 comp ratio, and I ran it with 87 Octane... didn't work out... I broke the pistons again! argh... So the NEXT time I put it together, I ran dished pistons to bring it down to 9.0-1 and I now run on 92 Octane (better safe than sorry...) and with the vacume advance plugged (speed shop recomended that...). It's running GREAT now, has TONS of power, spins the tires off all the way until I shift into second (at about 5,800 RPM...) VERY fun. Gas miliage isn't to bad, driving around town and stuff I get about 12MPG, and strictly freeway (with windows down and t-tops off, at 70MPH) It's right at 17.5MPG. I recently took it on no less than TWO roadtrips, the only mechanical problems I had were my fault not the motors... (loose vbelt, and my alternator and batt died on me...) I think the batt and alternator are from the terminals that are on the batt, they arn't very good, the've been giving me problems for awhile, and I need to replace them.
During the second rebuild, I decided to go with a different intake and carb, RPM Airgap (I think it's actually a "professional products" but it's the same) and a good ol' holly 750CFM Vacume Secondary Carb. Runs GREAT. Although, the carb was a pain for awhile, until I got it adjusted right.
I have a couple of questions for you guys though,
I really don't like my 700R4, or, more accuratly I don't like Auto's in general, I would like more control, and I feel like it's wasting alot of my power. My question is, how big a deal is it really to swap in a manual? what manual should I go with? how much modification is neccassary to swap in the t-56? How much can you find them for? etc... and most important, is it worth it? I mean, I REALLY enjoy driving manuals, but I is it going to be faster/slower? gas miliage up/down? Anyways, Thanks!
Stuart

 

If you actually know how to drive a stick well, it will be a little faster but you will get a little less mpg, but if your just driving it like most people do you won't notice too much of a difference

 

I'm pretty good with a stick, I've got a good sense of the gears and stuff. My dad has a 1980 Jeep CJ5 with a 4speed in it, and I can get that thing to shift like a short shifter... lol. That thing is SUCH a truck... I love it. Anyways, I was thinking It would be much better MPG, because it's overdrive is .5-1, where as my 87 700R4 is .7-1? and I figured it would be faster because it has all the in-between gears. Although, I was suprised to find that it's 1st gear is actually steeper than my first gear is now? why would they make it that way? is there a difference between the gearing in a manual, and the gearing in an auto? I would think it would be different, but in the other direction because of the slippage in the TC... Thanks Guys!

 

my 91 700r4 doesn't have traction control which definatly means yours doesn't either, and a jeep will shift alot different than a t56, and unless you've driven a performance car with a manual i don't recomend shelling out the cash for a performance clutch and short throw shifter, untill after you've figured out how it will shift with a stock setup so your not burning out an expensive clutch, and there is more to driving a clutch than just the throw

 

I've driven smaller cars with manuals too, I was just saying it's a pain in the rear to shift that thing smoothly, and you have to have a good sense of the clutch and where the engine is at in each gear etc... I'm just saying I have a solid grasp of manuals. Thanks for the advice though!
Stuart