Alright upon research I learned that I have a BAR sensor instead of a MAP sensor since my engine is carb'd. I believe. So here's a pic of what I believe to be my BAR sensor, it's only hooked up to the carb, and although there are vaccum ports non of them are hooked up to the engine, just and orange and green line that runs from the carb to it. I read that a guys engine stalled because he was in the mountains and the air was thin and he didn't have his BAR sensor hooked up, although I'm not in the mountains it is winter time here and I assume the air is quite thin due to the cold, so maybe this is a culprit, also I put plugged all vaccum lines on my carb before I had this problem and it ran fine. Anyway here's the pics.

 

Dac I think you just need to get a mechanic lol

 

I know it, but how am I gonna get one, I can't drive it, I don't have the money for a trailer. In fact lol, I don't have the money for a mechanic. And worst of all how many mechanics can really sufficiantly help me with 27 year old technology, I have a feeling the computer won't tell me much.

 

Actually, computer carbs have both a BAR and MAP sensor. The MAP sensor is in the rear driver side corner of the engine compartment, has a hard plastic vacuum line connected to the nipple on the bottom - the hard plastic line is bundled with the electrical harness from the back of the carb. The BAR is on the cowl lip above the HVAC box, looks just like the MAP sensor except it doesn't have a vacuum hose hooked to the nipple on the bottom (originally had a foam filter over the nipple, those typically deteriorate and disappear).

The device you posted the pic of above is the EGR solenoid. They varied over the years, but the earlier ones had a line going from the lower front of the carb, a line going to the back air horn of the carb, and a line going to the EGR valve itself. And an electrical harness which give the solenoid the commands from the ECM.

 

Thanks for the deffinitions, I know what the BAR and MAP sensors are now, I have been wanting to get them out of my engine compartment since day one lol. My good friends at napa helped me a lot today and I now can officially say that my ignition switch is competley solid. Here's the bad news, my car is back to no spark, I don't know why but I simply have no spark, a theory me and a guy at napa have cooked up is that the reason it was running so rough is that it had weak spark to begin with and now has non again. I am thinking of replaceing my dist, and carb with non computerized peices and dropping all this stuff for a more simple set-up.

Thanks for the Help, DacMan

 

Just change the dizzy. If the carb was alright before you started tearing stuff down it should still be just fine and wouldn't have anything to do with your ignition system.

 

I'm currently woking on doing just that, but I don't think it's the dizzy I think it's somting with the a ground somwhere, ohh well we'll find out.

 

I have been fiddling with her this morning, and have realized that sometimes she'll spark and somtimes she'll backfire when I turn the key off. I think it has to be a short or somthing, and I think she's sparking really weak and that's why she runs so rough, so I don't even know where to begin, but I'm going to run through the ignition wire system today.

 

I wonder if it's my condensor?

 

Well the dizzy is now completly brand new, so there's no point in replacing a new dizzy, it's obvious that my problem is a short somwhere and I have no clue were to begin howerver I do have a question, do condensors have to be grounded? If so maybe this one isn't sufficiantly, also what's with the plug it has running from it, I ran the car fine when it was like this, but I don't know what the other port is for, maybe this is my problem, I'm kinda trying to move slowley down the chain of possible issues.

 

Hows the war coming?

 

I'm loosing, I feel like I've invested so much into this thing and am getting nothing back. I just need to find the short out or something, I can't figure out why my spark is either not there or super weak. My dizzy is flawless, there's nothing wrong with it because everything is new other than the coil, which I have two, and have tested them both on it and they both gave me the same result. Wiring was never my strong suite, so I guess in retrospect this problem has been really good for honing my electrical skills, I would still like to know about that condenser I posted if anyone has any ideas. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a condenser help build the energy in the coil, and then absorb the shock of the energy dropping when a point is struck? So wouldn't it make sense that a condenser is bad, I have no clue what that condenser does.

Thanks, DacMan

 

A condensor absorbs back voltage when a circuit is interrupted. Also helps reduce radio interference.

 

Thanks five7kid, with that info I figured out that what that is, is a tach filter. So I'll move on to somthing else.

 

A short in the tach wiring will keep the coil from sparking.

 

I didn't know that, I'm going out right now to spend the day looking for any problems, I have my chilton's manual in hand. Hopefully I'll find it.


Thanks, DacMan

 

Hey guys I was just reading through my chiltons outside and read this "The color of the pick-up coil connector has to be yellow, if one of the ignition coil leads is yellow, If the ignition coil has a white lead, any pick-up coil connector color except yellow is ok." (Chiltons 2-9) If this is true, then that could be my problem, because my tach wire on my ignition coil is yellow, but my pick-up coil connector color is white. I had a feeling my old pick-up coil was bad because it was bassically covered in oil, and looked burt, and had a broken magnet. So maybe I just have the wrong pick-up coil?

 

Any ideas on the above statement? Also is it possible that I have a bad ground between the engine and the body, because I don't think I have all my ground straps hooked up properly, or at all, would that make any since considering my symptoms?

 

From your discription it sounds like that pick up wouldn't work. I could be wrong though.

 

Ok, I havn't had an issue with the spark not sparking when turning over in a while, so it'll run just really rough. My question is, am I setting my timing right? If somone could confirm with the process I'm about to state that would be great. First I pull the cap off and run the rotor to about where one is, knowing that the car can run just rought I know that I'm not 180 degrees off, so I am on the right stroke to look at the timing mark on the dampner. I then turn the engine over by hand until the timing mark on the dampner is in line with 8 degrees, retarded. I then remove the dizzy and put it back in so that it points exactly at the 1 cylinder terminal on the cap. Once the dizzy is in place I put the cap back on and tighten down the dizzy tab that holds it in place, and walla right? Or wrong?

 

If you have a timing light all you have to do is loosen the distrib tab so that the distributor can turn. Put the light on the #1 cylinder wire. (Then in my engine bay I have to disconnect a (Brown and Black??) wire that deals with the computer). Fire it up, shine the light on the harmonic balancer and turn the distrib till the light shows up at the correct timing. Shut the engine down, tighten the tab, recheck timing to ensure it is correct (by starting and shinging the light), reconnect that wire, remove light and your set.

p.s I remember five7kid mentioned about that wire, so its gotta be done with the wire off.

 

Theres confirmation

 

Ohh, I didn't think he was suggesting that, I thought he was saying that I should check to make sure the wires were hooked up. I have had my computer hooked up this hole time, however It was hooked up last time too, and I was able to time is just fine, but I'll try that tonight.

Thanks, DacMan

 

I've got some pretty interesting info, I unplugged the comp, and started it up and ran beutifully, then after about 20 seconds it ran rough, and rich. I dont' know why it's doing that. Sounds like the carb is feeding it too much or somthing, but once it got hot it ran awful.

 

your knock sensor? idk if you have one if not i would be deff lookig for a ignition coil that is what it sounds like. You could have it timed on exhaust stroke as well it would run but like hell. I am 19 and i am swaping a ls1 into my 90 formula, and i have had past experience with these kinda problems so i would check though things then go from there. If it ran fine befor thenit can run the same way just gotta remember if you touched something. check the starter leads there are three wires and if they are mixed up it can sometimes lead to a hard running

 

You could be timing it wrong? This is how i do it. Pull the dizzy completey out. then pull plug #1 and put it on tdc making sure it isnt on exhaust stroke. Then when it is on tdc put the dizzy in and try to point the rotor towards cylinder number one literally.Then put your cap on hook it up then bam there ya go should run or at least start and run smooth. The rough part is gettin me cause i am almost clueless with it but keep tryin things you figure it out

 

pm five7kid. He would know

 

I want to mark, believe me if I had it my way I'd be pm'ing five7kid about every 5 minutes lol. But I don't want to always be bothering him ya know. I think it's possible that with all the turining over and backfiring from the two months of hell were I had no spark I might have fouled some plugs, resulting in a weak spark on the passenger side bank. Even though these are new plugs, I'll pull one and take a look. Thanks for the advice stoning_volcom I'll get there soon, I feel like I'm close.

Thanks, DacMan

 

o yea man you are close at least it somewhat running. um,..... if i were you i would slowly go through it and double check stuff it sounds like it it something very small cause it is running. does it run for a period of time? or does it just stay running? or does it turn on and run for a lil bit then die cause those are signs to the other thing you were saying that when you where tryin to get it runnig it would make a clicking noise that could still be an issue. loose connection ignition coil? or something idk throing out ideas for ya let us no what goes on

 

Well I went out and checked #6 cylinder spark plug and it was pretty damn wet, so I cleaned it and threw it back in, and sure enough started it up, and it ran so nicely, then after about twenty seconds she bogged down and ran rough again (it's so sweet to hear her run right for even a few seconds lol) anyway I think it may be a ground issue, I just hooked up a 4 gauge "ground strap to the exhaust manifold and then to the fender well, and it's obviously helped, I wonder if what's happening is that is runs well at first becuase it's able to return a good amount of it's negative feed back to the battery, then it builds up a load after a while, becuase there's not enough of a output infastructure, and that's when the spark get's weak.

 

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't run like crap once it warms up if it was just a ground. I ran a 300 mile trip the other day in mine and about 70 miles from home it started running like crap. It would run fine when cold but terrible when warm. My plugs are bad so I have to replace them soon. You might check them, really.

 

you did reconnect the grounds that were on the back side of the heads right? I would have to agree i dont think grounds would cause i very rough idl like you have explained, it running rich? no not that either, there reason it is running rich is cause when the piston is on it way to tdc it is gett spark befor it reaches that point almost throwing it back wards, that is prolly what it is, check your timing again.

 

I am pretty sure it's a ground strap, though I've been wrong many... many times lol. I've read about every thread I could find on ground straps and their importance, and I know for a fact I'm lacking at least one and maybe two. So I'll get everything straightened out and see what happens.

 

k well like i said there are grouns on the backside of the heads there are grounds from the harness on pass and driver side then on pass side there is a ground strap that connects to the head and grounds off on the firewall check it out

 

The only thing you should be doing with the EST wire (distributor to computer wire) disconnected is setting the timing with a timing light. Then hook it back up before letting it sit and idle.

 

Gotcha, do you have any theories about my ground staps idea?


Thanks, DacMan

 

Well I went out tonight and worked on my pos chevy, what a waste... Anyway I tried grounding it better and nothing, I don't get why this thing is being such a ****ing bitch. I mean what could possibly be wrong. It runs great for about 20 seconds then sucks and runs rich like crazy after that. And now when I rev it up it makes a squel... I just want this to be over with damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need to sell the pos dizzy and carb I have and just by a non-computerized set-up, life would be so much easier. Any ideas guys? Ohh one other thing, when I open up the carb primarys and sencondaries white smoke poors out.

DacMan

 

Alright here's a vid I took, I had one of it running but I couldn't get it yet. So here's it trying to start, it's really labored because for some reason somthing's bogging it down, I don't know what but I think it could be my a/c pump. I say this becuase I don't have any fluids in it and although it's not hooked up electrically it's still turning. Maybe that's why it would run good for 20 seconds, it took time to build up pressure in the system, then if I wait a day the pressure releases and I can start it again, here's the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPrGYP7ckE

 

Well from what i can see in the video, it seems like a firing problem.Have you checked the plugs to see if they smeel like gas. If they are wet and darker looking it isnt firing. Do you have the firing order correct?and if so put up what you got in on. um other then that keep working on it.

 

My firing order is 100% flawless, yes the plugs smell like gas, no they aren't black, but they are wet, the biggest problem fromt the video is that somthing is keeping the engine from turning over freely. That's probly the same thing that's been building up pressure and bogging the engine down after about twenty seconds of running time.

 

I figured out my problem with the rough turn over thing, my timing wasn't permitting it to turn over easily, which is odd considering it turned over in the same position quite well two days ago (timing chain jump???). Anyway it'll run just rich, same old same old ****.

 

Finally got her going right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQT9fIa4-2c

 

So did you figure out what was boggin it down? like you have discribed?

 

Yeah, it was choked all the way, and the reason it was probably running well before was that I was starting it in 15 degrees and only running it for a little while.

 

So is it running well now?? It sounds good

 

Mark! I was wondering were you were, yeah it's running really great, even better than before it possible. I did some overdue body work today, and restored the front lenses on my bumper yesterday. I'm just trying to get eveything in order for paint and assembly. I'll probably make a new thread for my body work and such. So I'm glad to be finally moving on! (hopefully lol).

Cheers, DacMan

 

Good to hear. What was the problem / solution??

 

The choke was way off, and the reason it ran well before was that is was running in such cold condition.

 

Sweet. How do you adjust the choke??

 

Well, I don't knmow how familiar you are with quadrajets, but basically there are secondaries and primary's if it's a four barrel that is. The front two are the primary's and that's what the car runs under until a certain amount of hp and torque is needed then the secondaries kick in. Anyway there is a choke "flap" that is on top hovering over the primary's and my choke flap was almost all the way closed, So I just adjusted it so it's always open.