I'm saving for a 92 RS or Z28. I've decided on swapping in a built Grand National 3.8 ohv V6t. Has anyone done this before? Also, would a manual trans like the Richmond 6sp, T56, or ZR6 work with the 3.8? Obviously, lots of work.

I wanted high tech, but the LT5 is outrageously expensive and heavy, LS1 is nice too, but expensive, I hate LT1s, so the 3.8 turbo is the choice. I like the weight savings of the V6 and the extra room in the engine bay too for a FMIC and intercooler piping.

 

i ithnk an auto trans would be a better choice. you should be able to use parts from a tta, should be able to buy from gm still.

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ICON Motorsports

1st & 3rd

[This message has been edited by ede (edited February 14, 2001).]

 

First, you don't want a manual tranny, plus none of the one's listed will bolt-up. Two,...there is no way to have dual exhaust on this motor. All the engine's exhaust will come from the downpipe on the passenger side of the car. You can run a 3" system from the downpipe back to the muffler (which is what I have). Jack Cotton @ Cottons Performance sells the complete TTA exhaust kit including 3" downpipe. Give him a call @ 1-800-639-0531, tell him Robert with the TTA sent you. Also,....unless you use a TTA headed motor, you will not be able to have A/C on the car. This is why the TTA's have different heads than the GN's. When they put the motor in the F-bodies, it fit,...but left no room for the A/C compressor. They used the heads off the FWD transverse mounted 3.0L V-6 (w/center bolt valve covers) to make the engine a little narrower. Once doing this to maintain the proper compression ratio they also went to a TTA specific piston. The TTA's also came with a cross-drilled crank for better oiling. The GN's didn't have this.


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Robert
'89 Turbo Trans Am
#799 of 1555
11.96 @ 109.11 w/1.62 60ft BEST Race Gas
12.53 @ 105.31 w/1.74 60ft.BEST Pump Gas
www.Hi-psi.com
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[This message has been edited by Hi-psi (edited February 14, 2001).]

 

Well, I need the manual trans, or it's a no-go. Will any manual transmission work with the 3.8 turbo (TTA or GN)? These engines are awesome, but I need a manual trans. I'm not worried about pure drag racing times, and I'm not planning on owning another sports car with an automatic transmission by choice.

That's the only reason why I sold my 92 L98 Heritage Edition-- I don't like automatics!
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The manual will be slower...so why do it?

 

I thought I said I didn't care about drag racing times? So how every slower it may or may not be (which I don't necessarily think it will be) doesn't matter to me. I want a manual transmission. I know what comes with driving a manual vs an automatic and their strengths and weaknesses. thanks--

 

Two big problems,...I don't know of any manual trannies that will bolt up to the Buick motor, second, if you find one,...I don't think it will hold up to the torque these motors produce. Stock they're at 340ft-lbs. All you have to do is turn the boost up and your @ over 400ft-lbs. Not to mention if you actually modify it some. BTW,...if you do somehow do with a manual,...you're going to have major turbo lag, and you'll have to get a good blow-off valve if you want the bearings in the turbo to last long.



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Robert
'89 Turbo Trans Am
#799 of 1555
11.96 @ 109.11 w/1.62 60ft BEST Race Gas
12.53 @ 105.31 w/1.74 60ft.BEST Pump Gas
www.Hi-psi.com
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The only thing I can forsee is the bolting-up problem. Torque handling is not a problem at all for those transmissions I listed. Turbo lag can be lessened by chosing the right combination of parts for the situation. True, the manual trans will make it worse, but not unbearable.

I'm going to call around to some tuners and see what they think.

 

I've seen this setup in many types of cars. Corvettes, Camaro's, Cadilac's, Jeeps, MUSTANGS, Buich GS and others. Quarter Mile Performance in Atco, New Jersey did the Corvette and a few others. They specialize in the Turbo6.

The transmission should be an auto 200 4 R is what is standard. But a manual can be done, but why. What are your plans for the car? Are you going to drive it every day? Do you want to go fast (with manual) or faster with the auto. Autp will keep boost up whereas a manual you have to build EVERY SHIFT.

Pete

 

Trans-Dapt makes an adapter plate that bolts to a BOP motor, and lets you bolt a chevy trans to it, your going to have to space the flywheel off the motor the same distance, or have one custom made. The pilot bearing is going to be tricky as well. I wouldn't even waste your effort on trying to reengineer the C4 rear suspension. First off it uses a fiberglass transverse leaf spring and the whole mounting system for the suspension and differential is dependant on the corvettes center frame spar. Upgrade the stock design and you can easily break 1g lateral. Whatever you decide to do have fun. And I thought I did hard swaps.

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Torque is KING!
All pray to the god of grunt! When ye thinkth ye has been whupped than shall ye meet the mighty Buick! For none can surpass her majestic power, and all will yet try. All pray to the god of grunt. For the King of torque has arrived!
1. 82 Camaro+ 1. 455" Buick+ 1. N2O plate = YOUR WORST FRIGGIN NIGHTMARE!!!
Da Problem Child
ProbChldR@aol.com

 

20-psi... How would an auto tranny keep you from having to rebuild boost with every shift? If the rpms drop with every shift then so would the velocity of the exhaust. That would mean that boost would also drop with every shift. I think that your logic is flawed in this way. As far as an auto being faster for dragging that is correct. With an auto tranny and hi stall you can break stand and build boost with a load on the engine. So long as your breaks can hold the beast in check. With a manual tranny you cannot break stand and there for not have boost at the immidiate point of launch. That is why all the turbo guys launch at 5000 rpm's so that when they launch the rpms don't drop to a point where they lose boost. That is why they always have to drive thier cars like they hate them. The alternative that alot of turbo guys use is a small shot of NO2 out of the hole to get them going and to speed up the build of boost. Hope this answers your question zerog.

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1989 GTA TRANS AM
Was a TPI 305 & t-5 car.
Is now 383 stroker w/ the same T-5
World products Sportsman II heads. Lunati pistons and custom ground camshaft. Will dyno after the break in but is estimated at 450 hp and 520 ftlbs. The T-5 is on a suicide mission.

 

Bumping this to the top.

 

thanks for all the input--

I've seen a Dana 44 C4 IRS in a few f-bodies, so I'm not worried about that swap. I'm not as concerned with that as I am with the future engine.

some people just don't understand that I want a manual transmission... . I stated at least twice that I don't want a full-on drag strip car, so full boost launches don't interest me. And I don't like automatics, but I love 3rd gens-- I've owned 5 of them!

I own a turbocharged AWD Eclipse with a Mitsubishi 14b turbo that doesn't start to build boost until 3000rpm, so I know about full boost launches!

 

I think we understand that but are trying to tell you thats not a good way to run this engine. If you want it then do it. But why swap a Buick motor in if its not for Performance Reasons?

Its been tested a few times in a GN with a stick and they were almost a full second slower. Peformance isnt your thing then leave the 14 second sled motor in car and put a 6 speed behind it.

The Auto doesnt loose any boost during shifts either. I leave the line with 14psi (something you cant do in stick) and 15 feet out its running 23psi all the way to the end of the track when I let out. NO boost loss on shifts.

Either way good luck. Try not to destroy a 3.8 block, they are getting harder to find. These are the best motors ever...




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Mike
1989 Turbo Trans-Am
11.25@121.25
Only had the valve covers off once... 106K miles and still going. 300+ Runs.

1998 Trans-Am LS1 6 Speed
13.10@106 Bone Factory Stock

 

Im raising the dead here :hail:

anyways after reading this I seem some things that dont match up. They have tested the whole manual buick thing and the reason why its slower is they didnt use a studder box off the line and the tranny they used before it had a hefty 3000+ stall.
Most of the dsm guys in here should be able to explain a studder box. It allows you to build boost of the line with a manual car. While the automatic would still prolly boost better off the line, a manual would be alot more wicked for a rollon. How many of you would want to line up against a APU bike killing supra at 70mph? So you think manual supras are slow? Ever seen an APU supra with a 4000rpm lag and stick. Sound slow? its not!
Someone can find me a link to the APU dusting a stock hayabusa. and giving a modded one a run for its money till he misses a shift? I have the video if someone wants it emailed to them unless I find the link.

... hmmm... Well

You want to see what a studder box does?
watch this dsm dust this C5 then (the C5 even jumps the light)
DSMvsModdedC5StreetRace
http://www.to4r.com/members/media/Walser-vs-busa.mpeg
I dunno if it still works i g2g!

bahh I cant find my links Ill do it when I get home. The mpeg names are

nick_tony_t.mpeg dsm vs C5

Turbo + Stick = Awsome rollon

 

The reason 3.8s like the auto because PSI doesn't have time to drop. To solve this you use 2 smaller turbos if you want to use a stick. The 1 big turbo will loose more psi when shifting than 2 smaler turbos in a manual. If you use 2 smaller turbos the way 300zxs, supras, Skylines, and 3000GTs do, the manual shouldn't be a problem. Bolting one up to the 3.8 could be the problem. maybe a bellhousing from a 1996+ 3.8L with a t5 would work the a t56 from an LT1.