hello, i just bought my 1987 camaro off of ebay for 150.00. it has a 2.8 and the connecting rod has gone on it. i want to put in a 350, or possibly a 454, what do i need to do to change it over. it has an auto transmission. i'm new to the whole car scene and was hoping this could be something to learn on. any help is apprciated. thanks
jaren

 

Um, attempting this swap isn't exactly something I suggest you do if you have little car experience. If you do attempt it, stay small block for now. Here are some thing that will need to be changed...

-Steel brake lines on the crossmember
-Motor Mounts
-Transmission
-Exhuast
-Front springs (not needed, but recommended)
-Rear springs (same as above)
-Struts and shocks
-Radiator
-AC system (just throw it out, lol)
-Sway bars are a good idea

That about does it. To get to the motor mounts and brake lines, you really should remove the control arms, which basicly means, you have to take the entire front suspension apart.

Like all things, if you want a V8 car, buy a V8 car, and swap the motor to your choosing. If you want a T-top car, buy a T-top car. Taking these cars and basicly rebuilding them isn't something that I would suggest anyone do without some good experience behind them on the little things.

 

Teeheehee...I did about the same thing on my first F-body. First car i ever owned. Bought with a 2.8. 84 Berlinetta. Trashed the 2.8. Decided i couldn't live without a 350 under my hood. Weeeeelll...it went off rather well, if i might say so. List that Slow Iroc posted looks good, except for a few things. Never had to remove my brake lines from the crossmember, just moved them. As for buying a v8 car if you want a v8 car...well, all the holes are there to make it a v8 car...so why not? Ok, you'll need new motor mounts, the holes are already in your crossmember. They can be a big pain to get off, good luck to ya! Gonna need a new radiator, just pick up a good used one, or a new one, try to get one from an 87 camaro, that orginally had a v8. Gonna need an engine. You will be suprised how much little stuff your gonna forget, by the way. Power steering pump, fan, fan spacer, alternator, smog equipment, (maybe) water pump, pulleys, and what not. Ditch your computer, it won't do ya any good. New distributor is a must, carb too. Don't settle for a used carb, take a bit of tuning and rebuilding to make work right, and ya said you were kinda new, so unless ya got some handy friends, get a new one, make it easy on yerself. gonna need all your gaskets. New tranny is a must, your 200 4r would never survive, even if it bolts up properly. Do you need overdrive? Buy a decent 700 r4, have it rebuilt, and toss it in. Do you want a TH 350? MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU GET A LONG TAILSHAFT 350! The 4 inch tailshaft will not work! Oh yeah, gonna have to shell out bout 100-150 dollars for a kit to bolt up the torque arm. Might wanna replace your rear end, maybe find a decent one out of a iroc, or a formula.. ya got rear discs? find a rear disc rear end. Got drums? find a drum rear end. Otherwise, your going to have to change master cylinders. Springs aren't necessary, but might improve ride, never replaced mine, used the stock 6 cylinder springs. Tranny lines are a must, don't think the old ones will work. This isn't an exhaustive list, mind you, but might be a bit of help to ya, to realize the enormity of what you plan to undertake. It's a difficult job, but i think it's well work it.

 

Several things really concern me about this statement.

Look on the general tech board, for $1087 I have a 2004R that will handle over 500 HP, and the conversion kit to install it in a torque arm car...I'd call that better than a $1500-$3500 performance 700 any day of the week, especially if you look at the gear ratio's.

The second thing that concerns me, is why you even brought it up? No third gen cam with a 2004R transmission, a 200c was avaliable, but those are two WAY different tranny's. He didn't say he had a 200 he wanted to use, so where is this coming from? Are you trying to tell me you think the 2.8L Third Gen's used 2004R's? LOL, no I have several used V6 700's out of many third gen camaro's in my back yard, so if you could explain what you were talking about, it would be peechy.

It has holes eh? By the time you build the motor, buy all the parts you need, you could have had a factory V8 third gen much cheaper, and without the 2 years of headaches and busted up knuckles that it could cost him, that is, if he doesn't get discouraged. I'm not sure about your brake line situation either...being that in the V6 cars, the lines go RIGHT were the V8 mounts go! You have to remove them and get lines prebent for a V8 application. You can't just MOVE them, they are bent one time, and one time only. If you try to rebend them, you will probably crack them, and on top of that, to move them, you need to unbolt them and REMOVE them.

There is no difference in the V6 and V8 rear ends. NONE! A drum non-posi rear is the same in the V6 and V8 car.

The V6 front springs are meant to handle th weight of a 173, not a 350!!! We are talking about maybe several hundred pounds in weight difference. This will cause unpredicatble handling, front end sag, and increased rate of suspension wear. Ball joints are cheap or fun to do at home!

Have you ever done a V6->V8 swap? I've done 4 of them now. 83SC, 88SC, 89RS, and a 92RS. In every car, what I said above remains the same. Maybe you had the only third gen with rubber main brake lines that you could easily move, lol.

 

guys gotta lighten up a little bit.....

if he wants to do the V-8 swap then let him

dont try to discourage him

i realize it may be a PITA to do but if he wants an 8 then its worth it

as for my V8, my friends dad said he knows where i can get an LT-1 rather cheap and knows a dude who can put it in (off the books obviously) for about 500 bucks

this brings me to my next point: if you know anyone with the know-how to do this, then find out if they wanna do it as a project
cuz then you'll save some stress offa your back and keep some money in your wallet

 

thanks guys for all your responses, keep em coming. Like i said, i'm looking for something to learn, play with, and just have fun. My roomate can help a little bit. But like i said, my main priority is learning experience and fun. thanks again.
jaren

 

Hi, concerning your question(s) regarding a 2.8L to 5.7L swap I am in the process of doing one now. I have no clue concerning the 454, but I can to a degree talk the 5.7L. It is a lot of work and required a lot of planning and depending on your application....money. If I could turn back the hands of time to July of 89 I would buy a thirdgen with a 350 in it.

The only advice I will give you right now is when and if you decide to do the swap., buy an engine/tranny combo that you can physically see, touch, smell, whatever...Pictures (like what you see on Ebay) lie...

If you really want to be "smart" about it (the swap) get a third or forth generation f-body with a V-8 that had been totaled and go from there...

If you --- like me are a gutton for punishment...at least be smarter than I was an do your homework up front....

Best of luck to you and have fun

Ron

 

Just to add some more information, If you really want a 454, then it's only a small amount more work. I've done a V-6 to BBC swap already and am now preparing for a 305 to 350 to 396 swap. The springs aren't a big deal, I ran my V-6 springs with the 396 and had very few problems. The trans is more a matter of personal choice, the 200R4 is a strong trans, perhaps stronger than a 700R4. The TH350 is easier to find and costs less, but you lose the lower first gear and overdrive. In any case your 700 won't bolt up to a V-8. You will need to move the brakeline, pay the money and put a new one in. You don't want to try changing it with the engine in place. Your going to have to change the exhaust. Buy a decent set of headers for the engine you choose and go from there.

Good luck, welcome to the board, and feel free to ask for help anytime you need it.

 

Wow...this board has gotten horrible since i last posted...Think I'll ditch the whole third-gen idea, just keep the 280z, drop in a small block, and see ya guys at the track...shame how some things just go downhill

 

Are you crying because someone called you on your lack of experience? Here's a tissue... sniffle sniffle.

 

Nah, just wondering when everyone became #$$holes and started bashing folks, instead of politely pointing out mistakes, thanks for your concern, but i've got my own tissues

 

i recently had this motor swap on my 88 camaro spt. i had the 2.8 tossed and had a 350 motor/tran from an 70-71 monte carlo put in. so far things have been great. acceleration is better than ever, and i luv the rumble of duel flows compared to the single spin tech i was running. no big hassles except for redoing the fuel lines from FI to Carb. other than that the basic stuff was no big hassle. ummm springs i have not had replaced but now im worried, yet it does have a nice slammed stance. but hey im all for the swap go for it, live is to short to settle for a 6!
88CRUZIN

 

I did this swap in my 87 Camaro LT. I went from a 2.8 MPFI to a 5.0 TPI. The original trans in mine was a 700R4. If yours is an 87 then so is yours, but you can't re-use it. The V6 is a 60 degree block and the V8 is a 90 degree block. What this means is that the bellhousing is different on the transmissions used in each application, and since the bellhousing is part of the trans case and not removable, you need a whole new trans. This is not going to be a cheap swap by any means, but it can be a challenging and fun project. Some comments I have about what was said by some of the others: You don't have to change the front springs, but if you don't the front will sag too low and the handling will be sloppy. I didn't change mine at first, but the car just didn't handle that good, and when I did change them it made a world of difference. You don't need a new rear, in fact you will want the one that is in there. An 87 V6 car came with 3.42:1 rear gears. It makes a nice combination with the V8. I kept mine and I love it. You will need the mount where the torque arm mounts on up by the trans. You can't re-use your old one if I remember correctly. I went with a 92 serpentine belt setup, and was able to use my old powersteering pump and AC compressor. If you go with the older style belt setup you will not be able to re-use the powersteering pump. I'd be happy to discuss with you my swap in detail if you want. It's too damn much to type out. If you are interested email me and I will send you my phone number. You can call me and I'll answer your questions the best I can.

 

yes,im in this spot right now..ive had alot of thirdgens,but never tried to swap v-6 to v-8..im glad a kept all my parts from my wrecked 83z!!!hers what your in for:
the motor mounts are in the wrong spot,and to change them(v-8 mount holes are there) youll have to take the front a-arms +springs off,and replace the front springs while your at it because theyre WAY too soft and will not suport the weight of that v-8.you will have to change,or move the brake line that runs along the crossmember.your transmission will not bolt up,and needs to be replaced with a v-8 one(i have a rebuilt th350 out of my 83 with retro kit to fit in a thirdgen,is had less that 100 miles since rebuild,i have the driveshaft,crossember flywheel and everything you need...cant use it my car has a t-5 )your radiator wont work.you need a v-8 one +lines/hoses.heater hoses arent the same.unless you get a complete motor with harness(the sensor connectors at least),youll need a v-8 starter,alternator,power steering pump and lines,and a/c compressor and lines if you want power+comfort like me.your going to want to run a aftermarket,or non computer controlled carburator and distributor.youve got 2 options on your fuel pump.bieng its for a fuel injected v-6,the lines are on the wrong side of the car,and the pump puts out 35 psi of pressure.carburator only needs 5psi. so: 1. run a fuel regulator(not reccomended).2swap fuel tanks with a v-8 carburated tank and run new lines down the correct side like i did,and use a mechanical pump.you might want to think about changing rear ends too like i did,unless yours has a 3:73 gear in it or something..i know im forgetting something..you will have fun trying to make sence of your v-6 wiring that now your trying to make v-8 and none of the connectors are the same.your throttle cable is different,and youl need a v-8 cable bracket as well...to re-cap...it might be in your interest if your up to it to get another thirdgen,mabye totalled with good motor,etc,that you can strip for all the parts you need.otherwise youll be spending way more than you thought,believe me i have,but on can be done,and my insurance will be really cheap too,they think its stil a v-6 !!!!!!

 

I have a couple more comments.

1. If you decide to go with fuel injection you don't need to change the fuel lines coming from the tank or the fuel pump. The TPI V8 cars use the same pump and lines as the V6 MPFI cars. The only difference is lines from the engine to the hookup on the frame rail. If you go carb you need to change all that stuff.

2. If you go with a serpentine belt setup you DO NOT have to change the A/C compressor or the powersteering pump. I didn't.

3. You DON'T need to change the rear. PERIOD! You have a 3:42:1 rear now. That's better than a factory IROC of the same year.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, but the last response after mine seemed to be telling you to change things that were not really necessary, and somewhat contradicted some things that I said. It's going to be expensive enough that you really don't want to have to buy stuff you don't need. To show I'm on the level I posted a pic of my engine bay.

 

ok whatever.im runing a carb and non comp distributor.,not fuel-rejection.there is enough trouble with wiring going to a carb,i cant imagine the headache trying to put all that comp-controled krap in.My electric pump+lines had 150 k on them,and the lines are on the wrong side anyway.as soon as i touched the brake lines they leaked.it had a krap 3.08 rear.the radiator is alot smaller,and wont cool a small block good enough for me.im just telling him what i did,and you dit a swap alot differently. let him decide how he wants to do it.im just putting my .02 in and letting him know what i did.
mike
mike

 

mikeage2, no disrespect intended.

 

Ok guys, I'll join in.....
Did the 2.8 to 350 swap in my '84 about two years ago (it was my first car too). I'm not gonna try to say too much about the tranny, cause mine was a manual, so things were a little different: I could keep it with some small changes. I do know that you will need a different transmission though, as the V6 transmission will not bolt to a V8. As for the other stuff, I went with a rebuilt 350 long block which cost about $600 as a starting point. To that I added a weiand action+ intake ($100), a carter afb carb ($2xx), oil pan ($30), valve covers ($?), noncomputer controlled distributor (vacuum advance kind), coil, headers ($100), and a trip to the junkyard for accessory mounting brackets and a power steering pump (I had to get a new pump cause I couldn't figure out how to remove it from the brackets so I just replaced the whole thing). Oh yeah, water pump from the parts store too. And a V8 radiator. Motor mounts (difficult to swap, but possible). Air cleaner too. I know this is a disjointed list, guess I'm going for a stream of conciousness type thing. Doesn't look like I can spell either. Anyways, my brake lines did not have to be changed (maybe shoved over a little to clear the headers) and I left the entire suspension factory. I didn't change any part of the drive train farther back than the clutch either. That's all I've come up with so far. In any case, good luck with it. It will be a lot of work and there will be plenty of things you forget and lots of little obstacles, but you'll learn so much by the time the project is done. Before I did mine, I hadn't done much car work at all. After all I had learned though, I can't think of a project that I would hesitate to tear into now.

MikeS