i Have a 91 Pont Firebird 305 TBI.

And i had a freaky dream two nights ago. and since then, i never considered an engine swap. but nooowww. mmmm 350...
but i need help from you guys because ive read alllll the posts but need more clarity.
i see/know that the computer controls the motor. etc.
but i hear mentioning of VATS. do you need to change your ignition on the wheel?
big one. now what options do i have for swapping, what would be my best bet to swap in? prefer to keep this under 2500 beforehand. (17 and going to be working nonstop)
does the harness i hear of not connect to another harness JUST for the Speedo etc? dash?
or what am i missing? ok now if the engine comes with the Ac sys is that what your guys were discussing?
i have a 700r4 trans in it now, i prob wont change unless can get hands on a manual.
but where do i have to hack? etc for wiring. how hard is wiring?

And Which Engine is best to swap in?
(daily driver as well.)

Anything you guys can help me with is HIGHLY appreciated..


PS. Wanna know what makes me droool? thinking of this everytime i opened my hood. doubt possiblity of compatibility.


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91 FireBird 305 V-8
no true mods,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
"My G/f Once Wanted To Break Up Because Of Competition With The Car."
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

Stick with a small block chevy. All small block chevy engines, be it 283, 305, 327, 350, 400, or a derivative of those engines, are bolt for bolt identical. Granted, your car now is fuel injected and computer controlled, and you may have a restrictive exhaust, etc. etc. All of the components from your old engine will bolt on this new one. So figure out what you need to swap from your old engine to the new one in order to keep your fuel injection, and it will be a lot less work in the long run, and help with efficiency. Then once you've got the overall swap plan, decide what you want to do with the engine out. For example -- new headers will greatly improve the performance of that new engine and will be much easier to replace with the engine out. Also, with your fuel injection needing to feed more engine so to speak, you may want to make a few upgrades in the system. Just buy a basic long block, and bolt your old stuff on it.

If you go this route, you'll have plenty of power, and you won't have much work in the swap at all. You'll just be changing the engine itself, which is essentially one component -- not 90 different components.

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1985 Trans Am - rough and ready -- 3" cat and primary exhaust, lowered 2", custom rust body work mild fender denting. Daily driver.
1976 Corvette Stingray - not so rough, but always ready. mild 350/th350 tranny. mostly stock till I whack the hood for the blower

 

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Why purchase a factory 350 car? He should pull the engine and rebuild it while making the "mods that really count" anyway. If his car's in good shape, keep it, pull the engine, and replace with a small block that has the "mods that really count." It will be cheaper that way

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1985 Trans Am - rough and ready -- 3" cat and primary exhaust, lowered 2", custom rust body work mild fender denting. Daily driver.
1976 Corvette Stingray - not so rough, but always ready. mild 350/th350 tranny. mostly stock till I whack the hood for the blower

 

.

 

Ok. so you're saying -- forget the current car. Purchase a Formula 350 vehicle for well above $2500 guaranteed, which most likely is approaching 100,000 miles. Then, bolt the easy stuff on the tired engine. Put cylinder heads on an engine with a camshaft that doesn't take advantage of all that the current heads offer. Then, pawn off the old ride for the best he can get out of it, most likely taking a loss on the original purchase.

IMO, stick with what you have -- invest in the heart of it (the engine) and upgrade as necessary or desired from there. You'll be working with a new, more powerful engine to start with, and will experience much more power gain per mod -- such as headers, exhaust, etc.

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1985 Trans Am - rough and ready -- 3" cat and primary exhaust, lowered 2", custom rust body work mild fender denting. Daily driver.
1976 Corvette Stingray - not so rough, but always ready. mild 350/th350 tranny. mostly stock till I whack the hood for the blower

 

.

 

Ok back on the subject of his original question the LT1 swap, should be able to keep it under 2500, used engine: $1500 possibly less, oh and under 2500 would be without a/c you can add it later, make it fast now, 1LE a/c delete idler: $60, 4th gen radiator: $75 ?, custom fuel and p/s lines: about $100, custom 93 speed dens harness $500, non vats chip: $50, doing it all that way you will be able to use your stock mounts, trans, and even the stock manifolds but replace them right after catback and filters when modding it, that is using a 93 f body engine or a newer one with the 92-93 ECM.

 

Keep in mind labor, an LT1 swap can be a tedious ordeal if you don't know what you're doing and don't have good instructions. Labor could cost a lot if you don't do it yourself. If you do do it yourself, that's what this board is for.

 

Ok -- hard numbers.

Junkyard 350 TPI complete with ECM -- <$1000
Custom wiring harness -- <$500
Complete rebuild on 350 plus cam and heads <$1000 (if you know what you're looking for and shop around)
The best part about this option is -- it's virtually a bolt in **and keeps him emissions compliant**
Also, it costs no more, yet gives you a much better starting point than if you just went out and purchased a different 350 TPI car. This engine will respond much better to your suggested mods, and will put Fire in a much better position in the end. Rather than having a tapped out Formula or whatever he'd buy, with a few mods on it -- he'd have a better than new engine to put the mods on.

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1985 Trans Am - rough and ready -- 3" cat and primary exhaust, lowered 2", custom rust body work mild fender denting. Daily driver.
1976 Corvette Stingray - not so rough, but always ready. mild 350/th350 tranny. mostly stock till I whack the hood for the blower

 

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I have a 92 RS w/ TBI 305, TH700-R4. I have a 350 in my garage that I am building right now. I got lucky and bought a used 4 bolt main, 1pc. rear main block, crank, and heads for $100. It was yanked out of a '90 3/4 ton pickup. Here's what I have spent so far.

Block & Heads -- $100

Bore .030" over, hone, new cam bearings and grind crank .010" -- $300.

New rebuild kit from PAW (flat hyd. cam w/ lifters, Clevite bearings, gaskets, Milodan double roller timing chain, Speed Pro hypereutectic slugs, Clevite moly rings, high volume oil pump) -- $396

ARP rod and main bolts -- $70

Ring compressor, ring expander, Plastigage, assembly lube, brush kit (to clean engine), bolt boots -- $62

Total --- $928
This doesn't include what it's gonna cost to install the rod bolts, resize the rods, recondition the heads (if I don't get the Vortec heads). Then you gotta figure the things I don't need but want like headers, Edelbrock intake, hi-flo TBI, injectors, porting the heads, and a custom burned chip to run all of this. Then a posi unit, higher stall torque conv., tranny to handle the power (maybe I'll just smoke the one I have first), gears, etc. It all ads up, but it can be done with used stuff. I should be able to make 350 gross hp. The problem is like someone said earlier, setting the car up for it. I built a 72 Nova for about $2500 total w/ used stuff that ran 12.8 et's, but the car was made for it. This is gonna be more of a chore, no doubt.

Good luck man. I know I'm gonna need it.



[This message has been edited by AJ_92RS (edited May 09, 2001).]

 

Tony im doing it right now and without the a/c its an easy swap especially when doing the 93 speed density, although i think everything is easy so...... o well

 

hmm... just threw on the edelbrock catback sys. nice to have some torque.

well. theres a chap with a setup 350TPI thats go 3000 on rebuild and its and 89. for like 1400

orrr spend all money on body, sell, 70's vette..

 

400s are slightly different from the rest of the SBCs physically.

 

THANK YOU ALL THAT REPLIED
i took a little break, and came back with allot more knowledge than i had before thanks to the start you guys gave me.

ok, im ready.
i look at the engines for sale, and i see all the wiring, i think. holy CRAP. are theyre easy places for me to get the computer thru?
and how does the speedo connect up to?
whats the recommended year that i swap out of, and What kinda car should i look for????i like AC. :'(
And THEoreticly speaking, how much woulda swap cost?
THNX!



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91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
"My G/f Once Wanted To Break Up Because Of Competition With The Car."
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

I was considering putting a 350 in my 89rs wich can be achieved fairly reasonable cosidering me and gf's dad will do all the work except for machining the engine and such. thought long and hard and came up with the same idea as qwktrp. dropping in a 350 would be a breeze, but upgrading suspension, transmission, rear end, custom prom, new throttle body, intake, headers etc. etc. i would just rather sell my car and buy a 89 or 90 iroc with the 350,posi,and i believe without any mods i would prob be happy with performance. its like night and day when you hit the gas in the 305tbi and when you hit the gas in the 350tpi. there is much more potential in the iroc than having to upgrade everything in my rs. i really didnt know anything about camaros when i bought mine, all i knew was it had a v8. it was plenty fast enough for me for past two years but now i want something faster. i did get a steal on my rs being it was a 1 owner and it was my moms bf. i will get no less than 500 more than i paid for it 2 yrs ago and that is pretty good if you ask me. so basiclly i would sell the car and start fresh with a car,that in my opinion,has much more potential.

 

The only problem with getting rid of his car and getting one with the 350 TPI, is that those TBI cars are HARD to sell. I haven't had a bite on mine, and mine is garage kept in mint condition and only has 12k miles on the engine, tranny and paint and has every option available on that car. I think that if you want to know your car inside and out and have some real pride in it, do the swap. Maybe the LT-1 might be a little expensive, and since he is only 17, he may not be able to afford the insurance on a 350 TPI car. Do what JPrevost did and swap a 350 right underneath your existing TBI, that way, you maintain your EFI (which is not the weak point in that engine) and put the good stuff under it. Just a thought anyway.

Chris

 

I agree with cbpldc. Keep the TBI system and just put it on a nice 350 crate from GM. The 330hp Crate is only $2000 from GM and is a new motor not a rebuilt one. That is the best option for us TBI guys. Spend the rest of the money for good exhaust to go with that engine. You will also want to get a SLP OEM Posi for $100 and some new gears. That will make that car haul just as well as a 4th gen without the insurance. I was going to trade mine in a Camaro SS until I price the insurance on the thing. Over twice as much as my little TBI RS Convertible. So I have begun getting my car ready for the new crate engine.

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91 Camaro RS 5.0L Black Convertible 700R4
** Added so far **
*GM Wonderbar
*Alston SFC's
*Turbo City Inj Spacer
*Dual Snorker Air Filter
*March Performance Pulleys
*GM 3.42 Gears with OEM Zexel
*Edelbrock headers
*3" High Flow Cat
*3" Dynomax Exhaust
*Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump

 

thought ahead about the rear. Just Swap In a Fourth Gen.

ok. the crates not a bad idea, until i looked at it and saw nothing. it doesnt come with much. and what about computer? or. im not sure.
thats an intresting idea, i like it. but i have to be positive on budjet, like what i mean is no real big popups down the install.

ps. the best is going from V-6 to 350. insurance.

------------------
91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback,
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
"My G/f Once Wanted To Break Up Because Of Competition With The Car."
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap

 

ok, question guys, need all the info you can give me about the "harnesses" we keep talkign about...

 

Guys,
Best bang for the buck in his case would be to buy a 250hp GM 350 crate motor for $1200, swap in a better cam ($250), then buy a high-flow TBI unit and get a TBI 350 chip from GM for a truck or cop car. That'll get the car to run right, and you'll still have plenty of cash left over to buy headers, good cat, and an exhaust system. The TBI can make good power if the chip is right...we're talking daily driver for this kid, not an 11 second track car!

SSeeya!

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Steve Ragusa - '85 TPI Monte SS
Way too many mods to list...check out www.bowtiepower.com for all the info!

 

LADEDA.

Good Day to you all...
ive read thru this post so many times and many times over thank you!
well, i was looking at HP ratings, thats why i got so intrested into a 94 vette (only things needs chance AC lines and fuel flip sides)
and then its 300Hp right there.... plus the new xaust, and SLP headers..
buut what about fourth gen LT1?
the reason i would think a used engine is because they typically have all i need, plus it has to be Fuel injected. to keep remote start.
so whats the best thing to swap out of? and what could i do do bump up HP as... well reasonably soon as possible,

(oh and i found my old friend that his brother is a mechanic!, so i might have help, so now its getting closer.)

thanx guys,
oh and the harness, all the wiring id have to deal with, where is all of it at???? i worry so much about the wiring, isnt there about two miles in each car or something?

 

.

 

There's nothing wrong with 305 TBI's. :P

Mine can go fast, if I spray

 

NO SPRAY.
neea. dont wanna go the ole nitrous route. because you cant leave a nice patch while leaving. plus i heard from friend that saw riceandfurious. the couldnt go without it. NOS. thats what they called it. NAWS. NAAAS....

No NAAS...
but good input. Really. i looked into my books again. a dood i know crashed his car and is like selling two twenty pound bottles like at 80 each.

Thnx man

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91 FireBird 305 V-8
Edelbrock Catback, Fourth Gen Console. i have six cupholders. all for starbucks!
ghetto rigged cold air intake,
"My G/f Once Wanted To Break Up Because Of Competition With The Car."
GheTTo Riggers INC.
We Make Mcgyver look Like Crap
God Created The Earth, And Then Turned Up The Bass