Hey every one i have a few questions.. im at the point where im starting to look for a new engine for my 1984 camaro berlinetta im trying to figure out what will be my best bang for buck..
I want a mid 11 to 12 second car in the 1/4 mile..
I was thinking of a 383ci small bock stroker ??
i heard you can buy a 350 block and change the crank shaft and bore it out to make it a 383ci?? is this true??
i'm trying to figure out what the difference between a two and a four bolt main is ?? is that how many bolts that connect the engine to the chassis ?
i only see two bolts that hold my engine in place..
I know i have an f style frame and i will be adding sfc's to help handle the torque even so i still want a small block... im probably going to buy a block and slowly re build it i dont know what to look for so any help will be appreciated
thanks in advance

 

2 bolt vs. 4 bolt - the number of bolts that hold the main crank bearing caps in place within the block.

 

Is it better to have four bolts if i plan on racing it?

When i go to look for aN ENGINE this wont effect the installation fit will it?? my main concern is how do i know that the engine i go out and buy will fit my car??

Im probably just going to buy a block and start building it from scratch...

 

You will need an engine that can make about 400HP or so at a minimum. Beyond the engine, you'll have to do some other things. You will need to beef up the drive train to handle the power. You'll also have to deal with traction issues and thus getting the power to the ground.

A mild 383 stroker will fit the bill nicely. How much are you looking to spend? Does forced induction interest you? Are you going carbed or fuel injected? You have some other options for reaching your goals as well. LSx engine swaps are becoming increasingly popular. You might want to go this route.

There are basically two types of 383 engines. Dodge/Mopar had a real 383CID engine in the late 1960's and early 1970's. However for the purpose of this discussion (based on your post) I'm going to assume you are probably referring to the 383 stroker. A 383 stroker is a 350CID engine with a different crank shaft. (That's over simplifying things but essentially, that's the case.)

There are two types of 350CID mains in GM/Chevy small blocks. 2 bolt and 4 bolt mains. The 4 bolt mains are supposedly stronger. The difference is literally in the number of bolts in the mains.

I think you are probably referring to the motor mounts.

I think you are referring to the "F-Body" which refers to Firebird and Camaros. (Within certain year models anyway.) Sub-frame connectors are definitely essential for chassis stiffness. As for an engine block there are tons of variables and sub-types of 350 engines. You have the 1960's to 1985 blocks, 1986 on up blocks, Vortec blocks, etc. Flat tappet cams vs. hydraulic roller cams, etc. LT1 and LSx blocks are evolutions of the Chevy small block engine designs, but they feature important changes. Unless you are interested in going with one of these engines, I'd really ignore them for the purpose of this discussion. In order to perform an LSx swap, you'll need to do some major rewiring, or spend a ton of money on hardware to make things more "plug and play." I will say this, some of the LSx engines can be had for a great price if you look around. You may want to consider one of these as an option instead of an SBC. There are many pros and cons to either SBC builds or LSx swaps.

 

All sbc are pretty much the same. Even a bbc will fit but then you have to worry about headers that fit.

 

LSX

 

wow thats alot to take in! well first off i should mention i like the looks of a carb!! i want it to be open though not hidden...
and second off the other day i removed the a/c system and do not plan on puting a/c back into the car.. while i did that i removed all the old wiring under the hood.. i found a good link and plan to re wire my entire car for around $500 all new heres where im getting it from or plan too any how... http://www.ronfrancis.com/
all i have to do is let them know what iv changed and they make it fit as if it was stock..
i want the 350 stroker for sure! theres just so much to take in 2 weeks ago i didnt even know how an engine worked and just yesterday i put in a distributor meaning i had to learn how to find tdc and figure out the firing order and have it set on the first cylinder surprisingly easy! right now i have a 2.8l v6 with a 2 barrel carb its gutless has no power!!
if i go and buy just any old chevy 350ci small block.. can't a just replace the crank to a forged crank stoker ?? and does this mean i should update the cam rod and rocker arms and springs and valves at the same time ? i know with a new cam i need stiffer springs for that snap i know to get them matching number or what not...

should i just get the block i want first and is it better to buy some one elses work or just get it done myself, as for having the block machined i mean??

my project car is a 1984 camaro berlinetta is there a year range i should stay within when looking for a new bare block ?? or possibly full engine ??

 

Newer engines are usually better.

 

I figured that but i ment, Will i have any problem with a newer engine fitting my older car?? Either way i want a small block 350 chevy engine!! i just want to know what the best year and fit would be for me?? i want a well built block!! right now its a v6 2.8l 2 barrel carb the header conect at the bottom of the engine into one pipe going down the passenger side of the car because apparently its a tight fit for any pipes to run down the driver side...

and i plan on spending total for my car, around $10,000 that's just ball park i have yet to save the money... ill do it bite by bit i want to strip the car down sand blast the frame and re undercoat it.. and dub out the back i want like 12" Mickey Thompson's or w/e the largest street legal tires are in Vancouver, b.c.?? i want it to hook up good or theres no point in putting a big engine in it.. and of course for fun ill add line locks to the front break lines.. i plan to replace the suspension,rear end by the way what would be a good gear ratio?? of course i want the rear end to be posi traction.. and as for a transmition i drive stick what kind of transmition would best suit my needs?? and should i go with a 4 or 5 speed tranny i want to do close to 11 sec's in 1/4 mile but i also want it to be a good driver on the streets so please dont say what kind of engine as for "LT1 and LSx blocks" i dont even know what the differences are of the two let alone what that means!! ??

and as for the cams??
Flat tappet cams vs. hydraulic roller cams, etc. i have no idea ?? i was hoping for some help on that as well lol like i said i don't know to much as im just learning i have friends to help but im trying to learn on my own

 

When it comes to turning a 350CID into a 383 stroker, the block will need machining. Even if it didn't, you have no way of knowing how many miles are on a used 350 in most cases. Truthfully you'll want to have the engine properly rebuilt rather than trying to start shoving performance parts into what is essentially a junk yard 350 that you know little to nothing about. At least in regard to it's history. You don't want to throw hundreds or thousands of dollars into something that could blow up on you in short order.

I'd recommend either getting the block rebuilt to specifications that meet your horsepower and general performance goals. You can either just have the short block done then assemble the rest of the engine yourself, or have the entire engine built. The latter method is of course more expensive. You can also buy a new short or long block and then finish the rest of the engine assembly yourself. There is some money to be saved by using a rebuilt short block vs. a new short block, but whether or not you want to go that route is up to you. Some people will flat out prefer using a new engine while others won't care so much.

As for the year range, there were some changes made to the basic Generation 1 small block Chevrolet engines. The major changes by year are listed below as taken from Wikipedia:

"Major changes

The original design of the small block remained remarkably unchanged for its production run, which began in 1955 and ended, in passenger vehicles, in 2003. The engine is still being built today for many aftermarket applications, both to replace worn-out older engines and also by many builders as high-performance applications. The principal changes to it over the years include:

* 1956 - Oil filtration was introduced, using a sock style filter in a canister.
* 1957 - The engine came with only front mounts, the side mount bosses were present but not drilled and tapped leaving its retrofitting problematic.
* 1962 - The block's cylinder wall casting was revised to allow four inch bores. Previously, only certain years of the 283 engine (1958-1962) could be bored safely to four inches.
* 1968 - The main journal diameter was increased to 2.45 in (medium) from 2.30 in (small) and the connecting rod journal diameter was increased to 2.10 in from 2.00 in. This allowed the use of cast iron crankshafts as the previous parts were made of forged steel. The rod bolts were changed from 11/32 in. diameter to 3/8 inch. Additionally, the canister/sock style oil filter was now converted to use spin on filters. The oil fill location was moved from a tube on the front of the intake manifold to a cap on either side valve cover.
* 1986 - The rear main seal was changed from a 2-piece rubber design to a 1-piece rubber design that used a mounting appliance to hold it in place. This necessitated a change in the flywheel/flexplate bolt pattern as well.
* 1987 - The valve cover surfaces were changed such that cylinder head mounting lip was raised and the bolt location was moved from 4 bolts on the perimeter, to 4 bolts down the centerline of the valve cover (this design debuted on the Corvette in 1985, and Chevrolet 4.3 L the year before). Also changed were the mounting angles of the center 2 bolts on each side of the intake manifold (from 90 degrees to 73 degrees) and the lifter bosses were increased in height to accept roller lifters. The alloy heads for use in the Corvette still retain the non-angled bolts (center 2 bolts attaching to the intake). Also all carburetors were done away with and replaced by TBI (throttle-body injection) fuel injection that acts some what like a carburetor.
* 1996 - This was the last change for the Generation I engine, and continued through the end of the production run in 2003; all 1997-2003 Generation I engines were Vortec truck engines. The cylinder heads were redesigned using improved ports and combustion chambers similar to those in the Generation II LT1, resulting in significant power increases. The intake manifold bolt pattern was also changed to four bolts per cylinder head instead of the traditional six."

All in all these changes don't make much of a difference, but some differences just need to be kept in mind. For example the 1986 on up engines use a different flywheel/flexplate bolt pattern. So you need to make sure you use the right one when mating the engine to the transmission. You need to be aware of the change in 1987 in regard to the valve covers. When selecting camshafts, you need to make sure you get the proper type. Either flat tappet or hydraulic roller. If you use a newer Vortec block you'll need a Vortec style intake manifold for your fuel system of choice.

Hope this helps.

 

wow thats alot to take in but after a few time of reading it ill remember more and more thanks for the help!
So pretty much to sum that up i would be best off with a Vortec truck engines between 1997-2003?? and i should buy the block brand new??
If i were to buy a used engine say from a scarp yard or online... i would bring some one who knows what to look for but one thing i have learned is to make sure theres a good thickness between the cylinder walls ?? and if i were to buy used i would pay the money to get it machined!!

Im just trying to decide now whether its better to go used or new... i know new is better because i know theres nothing wrong.. but used i can have it fixed and the bore would be bigger allowing for a bigger compression ratio right??? which would lead to more power.. hmm... so much to think about...
it is important to me that everything is well built and reliable!! but im young and im on i tight budget so what would you suggest i do ??

And is it easy to put the crank and cam shaft in and set the timing for some one that hasnt done it before ?? or is that something most people pay to have done ?? it should be simple no?? isn't it just a matter of having your #1 firing piston at the top of the cylinder while the cam shaft is set to have both valves closed ??? and then link them together or is this something that i should pay to have done and then assemble the rest of it myself..

 

Assembly should be done by someone with the tools and know how. Installing a cam is very simple, there are timing marks on any timing set. Most performance builders with then check there installed centerline with a degree wheel checking for at a overdetermined point for that cam.

New? Used? The big question is what is your budget? If you scratch build a stroker using all new parts and a seasoned(used) block you will be lucky to keep your budget under $5000. Using a new dart block and premium parts you can easily double that.

 

You might want a stock complete pullout Lt1 (new), thats probably what i'll do. Around me there are a lot and the prices aren't bad either.

 

You better make that budget larger than $10k too! I've got $15k into my car and that's just 350 carbed nothing fancy motor, no tubbing the rear, etc. But I spent alot on suspension and beautification ie $5k in paint, and clean as new almost perfect interior.

You seem to have alot of concern over what will "fit" under the hood - anything will fit with proper mods - get what you want and then make it work. But - to ease your mind - and LSx will fit, BBC's will fit, I've seen twin turbos crammed in there, LT1's will fit, and any SBC will fit, regardless of the year. That's the beauty of Chevy, especially the small blocks - there hasn't been any major changes in small block chevys since 1959 maybe? So stop worrying about old vs new and fitment - it will all fit!

 

I figure by the time I'm done with my 1985 TRANS AM that I'll be in about $20,000 or so. It's easy to do depending on your performance goals.

 

Yeah, it's easy to spend, it's just not so easy to make!

 

So true.

 

that seems a little steep ?? i was thinking if i did most of the work for 10,000+ i could have a the engine transmition and rear end i have lots of time before i start buying anything so i can look for deals between criagslist and ebay and well some things like the crank and cam i will want brand new most likely

 

i have an 84 camaro non berlinetta but it has a 350 small block and it hauls ***

 

i ment 10,000+ only for the engine trany and rear end... i relize ill have to put out more for things like dubbing it out roll cage sfc's suspension tires plus interior and paint and new seals for the doors ttop and im re wiring the complete car o plus line locks for the front breaks... hmm i think it will cost me around 25,000

 

Talk to people that have done it. I have scratch built a 383 and have closer to 8 or 9 into it fully dressed. When you start with nothing, you need everything, and it all adds up quick.
You want to do your drivetrain for 10G? Get a running 350, do a basic rebuild with new pistons, shells and rings. Buy some heads, cam, intake and carb. You can make 450HP and might be able to keep your budget for your motor under 4 grand.

 

Don't forget to include the prices of all the pieces you will need, not just the biggies like motor, tranny and rear end. You will need a better driveshaft, mounts, brake and brake lines, fuel pump and new fuel line,carb,intake, ignition system, alternator, water pump, power steering pump, some way of mounting PS pump/alternator, a new bigger radiator, shiny valve covers (everyone needs shiny valve covers), clutch, flywheel,air cleaner,hood scoop (not much clearance under the stock hood for a real intake) etc. Don't forget to add in the cost of shipping and or taxes for all these pieces. The little pieces will quickly add up to thousands. As an example my assembled shortblock listed at $3500. My assembled engine ready to run including all the shipping,taxes and pieces was closer to $10000 and I had the alternator,water pump and power steering pump already.
As mentioned before 400 to 450 horsepower is a lot cheaper than 500+ horsepower.
You should probably go with forged pistons and have the rings set up for nitrous with whatever you do because I am sure you will eventually want that extra 100 or more hp nitrous gives you for only a few hundred dollars more, possibly the only cheap horsepower you will find.

 

Why would he need a better driveshaft, brake lines, fuel pump and new fuel line, alternator, water pump, power steering pump, some way of mounting PS pump/alternator, a new bigger radiator, shiny valve covers (everyone needs shiny valve covers), air cleaner, hood scoop?

drive shaft won't matter, brake lines only if needed anyway, fuel pump is mechanical already unless he's going with efi no need for new pump or lines, alternator stays same, water pump stays same, p/s pump remains same, ps/alt brackets remain same, no need for radiator until he sees how hot car runs (my 350 runs fine on stock rad), shiny valve covers mean nothing but leaks, and plenty of intakes/carbs/aircleaners will fit under stock hood, including Performer RPM Airgap.

 

He Will need an new water pump, power steering pump, brackets, radiator etc... The V6 stuff is totally different from the V8. When I did the swap, the ONLY things that were the same were the alternator itself, and the slave cylinder for the clutch Practically everything that touches the motor is different, the project became more expensive than I had anticipated lol

 

He also needs new front springs. The V8 engine weighs more than the V6 engine does.

 

fml... lol well it's a good thing i realized this isn't going to happen over night holly crap so much to do lol

 

Yep. These things almost never seem finished.

 

From going to a V6 to a V8 swap here is what I know will need to be changed.

front springs=V8 is heavier
motor mounts
transmission
exhaust=atleast the manifolds unsure of the rest
and basically all of the accessories that bolt to the engine, AC, water pump, steering pump, Alternator and mounting brackets all must be swapped. Diving into something like this is "easy" per say but you need to have some basic knowledge of what is happening. Unfortunaltly, even with all the very helpful and quite knowledgable people here, you still need a baseline of knowledge to work with. I suggust that you go to the local library and pick up some books on how to rebuild an engine. The books will answer alot of your questions and make some new questions but they at the very least will be quite narrowed and more ll take longer but once you have the knowledge and skills you'll feel great about what you've learned. I hope this doesn't come across as mean, I just know from experience. My dad was a carpenter, not a mechanic so I had to pick up books, tinker with lawn mowers and such until I gained experience to tackle bigger jobs then I joined the military and learned even more. Redoing a car isnt something that should be taken without a very experienced person standing with you guiding you and making sure everything is good and actually teaching you not doing for you. Anyways, good luck to you.

 

thanks for the advise yea i have a few friends who say they can build it for me but i want to do it i just want them there to guide me..

 

I have to have the same, I get excited to finish and may miss something. LOL. A standard rebuild I can do, you know with origanal parts but upgrading for performance I have to ask. Just don't be afraid to learn and to ask. Once I come back from overseas, you'll bet you'll be seeing me asking everything. LMAO. Just take your time, think it out it and enjoy.