Ok what ive got is One hell of a deal on a 1000 mile 305 shortblock, and its a crate not a rebuild.....so my T/A is up for a swap.... from what I was told the block was a 1980 hydrolic cam with provisions for a mechanical pump........I have a bone stock L69 T/A 5spd, will everything needed to make this new motor work be able to be taken off my old motor? Im worried about stuff like my cam, flywheel, and well everything.....Ive never built up a 305, and this is the first one Ive owned and things from other builds Ive done are starting to worry me like the flywheel bolt pattern being different from a one piece RMS to a two piece RMS-That was an expensive lesson, what should I watch out for guys..........The reason I ask is that this car is my Daily Driver, and Im gonna start on a Friday evening and this thing has to be ready for work on Monday morning....I am more than capable with that time frame as long as I dont have any F'ups with parts not fitting /cant afford.......So what Im saying is I have to plan this out really well and could use some help........TIA

My Hindsight is always 20/20 but my Foresight is still abit fuzzy

 

A 1980 305 would have the same bolt patterns, same rear main seal type, same dipstick location as your '84.

However, the heads might be boat anchors. Your '84 heads were as good as 305 heads got.

It's practically a given that the cam will be much worse than your L69 cam. I know you want this to be as quick as swap as possible, but I'd suggest getting an aftermarket cam and installing it.

Perhaps go ahead and install the engine as it is, then take your '84 heads to a machine shop and have them go through them and put on new valve springs & seals, then spend another weekend doing a heads/cam swap.

 

Ok cool thanks for the info....All Im getting new is the block, rotating assembly, and cam...I wish I had the time to do a port job on the heads but Im gonna replace the valve seals and clean them up at least....Glad to hear that my cam will fit, Im gonna stick with it for now if not the one thats in it, because since I have been saving up for a 350+carb+t56, but ran into to this steal, Im now gonna Supercharge this thing!!! for what I was gonna get the t56 for I can snag a used blower.....
So now this is my plan so far, keep new block, crank, pistons(lower comp I assume than my L69 stuff) stuff in my cam, use my old heads/ intake/ carb/ dizzy. As soon as spring/summer hits, First find a blower and a hood I can cut up, get a blower-friendly cam, better heads and intake (Vortec?) and Hope that my trans holds up until I get a WCt5/t56 or better.....I figure with even 6-8lbs of boost my drivetrain should hold up for a while, and with the 373 gears Ive got It should pull really hard in the low to mid rpms....and yes now SFC are first on my list of to-do's

One more question.....How do I find out what the Compression ratio is on the motor Im getting?..........and of course any thought /suggestions on the plans Besides "GET A 350"?

 

Ok, wait... Now what's wrong with your existing engine?

 

Look at the top of the pistons. If there are four "eyebrow" valve reliefs on an otherwise flat top, you'll have 9.5:1 with your current heads. If there is a dish on top of the pistons, somewhere between 8 to 8.5:1.

 

If you are going to use your old cam be sure and use your old lifters. They need to be put back at same location on the new motor, reason being the wear pattern on your cam matches the old lifters.

 

just the fact that i got a 1000 mile shortblock for $100




the new motor doesnt have reliefs...... I assume I have the ones with the valve reliefs-correct? Because I know that my sock ratio was 9.5:1.......I guess that the lower compression will be more boost friendly. I COULD run the pistons from my old motor-but I probobly wont....but just for ***** and giggles I could if I swapped the new rings onto my old pistons-right?
Oh boy Im starting to make this more complicated....and I was the one that wanted a quick swap.....

Good call, thanks for the tip....now I just hope that my cam and lifters are in good shape.....

 

Ok guys, Small update: Ive really been Itchin to get this thing going but the lovely VA weather has not been cooperating




With about a foot of snow on the ground, I didnt feel like venturing out in my T/A to pick up its new block, and yes Im picking it up in the T/A cuz it damn sure wont fit in my wifes Cavalier..........but never fear while Ive been holed up in the snow this weekend and Im off today, This is what Ive come up with.
Im gonna Have about $450 or so lined up for this swap, roughly broken down thats $300 into the motor, cam -sending my L69 cam out to be freshened up locally or if I can find a better one for about $100, heads -new valve stem seals at least, new head bolts, a rebuild gasket kit for a "CHEVY CAR 305 / 5 OHV : 76-85 Carb & TBI. W/2pc. rear main seal" that includes:
Head Gasket, Valve Cover Gasket, Timing Cover Gasket, Intake Gasket / Exhaust Gasket, Fuel Injector Gasket, EGR Valve, Water Pump Gasket, Distributor Gasket,
Oil Pan Gasket, Timing Cover Seal, and Rear Main Bearing Seal.
That should about cover the gaskets.....Any missing? I really tried to find one with head bolts to no avail....
That same $300 dollars also includes painting the motor Red, and miscalainiuos stuff like Degreasing engine bay spray off action with like a garden hose or something after I make like a cocoon out of duck tape and Wal Mart bags around stuff I dont want to get wet.....Seriously Its Fuggin gross in there.
Im gonna clean as much as I can while Im in there, I might even rattle bomb some engine paint on stuff while Im there. Im also gonna clean and paint the bracketry and pulleys Gloss black or Red..... can you paint an alternator? Exhaust manifolds? Im gonna get some good spray paint from ADV / AZ Btw......

With the left over $150 from my budget Im gonna try to give it a tune up and make some sense of the mess of vacuum lines any wires under the hood - $50+/- , and finish the carb rebuild / swap I ran out of funds for..... Ive got to either rebuild a Holley or get all the sensors and figure this CC Q-Jet thingy out for around $100 MAX, I really want a Holley DP, but Im actually leaning towards fixing my Q-Jet, Ive never rebuilt a carb before and my Qjet runs as of right now, Albeit a lil rich but Im hoping that 2 new O2's since mine arent even hooked up, and whatever else will fix that. Im just trying to avoid rebuilding a carb because it intimidates me a lil bit...Too many small parts. Five7Kid feel free to chime in on how exactly / what exactly is needed for that, assuming that the carb is in at least fair shape.
Well that covers about everything I think......Im still planning to do this in the three day time frame I mentioned earlier- Well at least get it drivable in 3 days....
Day one: Pull old motor, clean and prep engine bay, strip old motor, clean and paint prep parts that are being reused, maybe start painting...
Day two: Alternate between painting the bay and parts the woking on assembling and painting my new motor between coats...Im looking into getting a heater to help speed up the drying time...
Day three: Now that the motor is assembled and everything is painted, lets if I can put it together as fast as I took it apart......

I will continue to update with pics as I start to accumulate parts and when I finally start in about two weeks (hopefully) Ill keep a log to see if I go over budget or if I totally flub the deadline or if I actually pull it off..... my camera is coming with me to document everything. And if the finished product is half as nice as I envision it Ill be pleased.....Wish me Luck!!!

 

Well I got my block today.....



We are supposed to get more snow before the weekend, so the guy I got it from drove almost an hour to drop it off.......ROY U ROKK!!!!

Now if the weather would only break.........

 

Well as today we are getting MORE snow later this evening, I have ordered some more of the parts for my up coming swap.....

First thing I noticed



If you look real close, you can see the 030 stamped at the top of the piston.....Well Ive got a 305 bored .030 over right? That is a 307 correct?
No big deal but this does mean that I cant use my stock L69 9.5:1 pistons from my stock motor, rite? Im stuck with these.

Block numbers



5.0 LG it says.....As in LG4?

I did find out that this block was pulled from an 80 Camaro as a crate "stock replacement" for the original.....but I can only guess as to the trim level for the motor and cam......Just a couple more questions have come up .......Can I just pull my old cam and suff it into my new block? I was told earlier to use my old lifters....do lifters wear out? Id rather use the new ones seeing as they only have 1000 miles on them. I also want to be sure that I wont have any piston to valve clearance issues using my old L69 cam and heads on this motor....I should be ok rite? Anyone heard of or tried a gasket kit from Enginetech? Its cheaper than the Fel Pro set I was looking at....any advice is welcomed, TIA.
Well thats it for today....

 

It's a .030-ver 305, which is about 307 cu-in, but isn't the same thing as a Chevy 307.

Right

"LG" is coincidental.

Reusing a flat tappet cam with or without new lifters can be a risky proposition. Brand new aftermarket replacements are both cheap, and greatly superior to the old factory crap.

With those soup bowls, the valves are going to be nowhere near the pistons.

 

A 0.030"-over 305 displaces 310 cubic inches. Which makes it a 0.030"-over 305.

You can't use stock sized pistons in 0.030"-over cylinders.

Flat tappet lifter and the cam lobe wear to each other. Switching lifters has a tendency to accelerate wear of both. Of course, switching cam and lifters from one block to another can change the contact point due to machining tolerance differences between the blocks, so it's a crap shoot either way. But, putting new lifters on old lobes is generally not a good idea.

From the casting number, that looks like an '80-'85 305 block.

 

Ok since that is the secnd time Ive heard the aftermarket cam suggestion, I figured Id take a look and see if I can find one within my budget of ~$100 this is 2 I found.....I really dont know what rpm range I should be looking for and I really dont know $hit about cams, so I found one low range and one higher.....

Power Range (RPM): 1000-4500
Valve Lift (INT/EXH): .420/.443
ADV Duration (INT/EXH): 278/288
Duration @ .050" (INT/EXH): 204/214
Centerline (degrees): 112

Operating RPM Range: 3,000-7,000
Valve Lift with 1.7:1 Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.525(Intake) & 0.525(Exhaust)
Advertised Duration: 305(Intake) & 305(Exhaust)
Intake Duration @ .050 in. Lift: 253
Exhaust Duration @ .050 in. Lift: 253
Lobe Separation Angle: 110°

If I understand things rite, Im leaning toward the first one just because thats how I drive the car, rarely do I ever see much above 4500rpm and I am WAAAY more interested in tq than hp and is is 525 too much lift the second one seems kinda radical me thinks but ??????

and the subject of lifters comes up.....never use new lifters on an old cam I got that but what about 100 mile lifters on a new cam???? What are the specs on my L69 cam just for reference

Oh and I picked up my motor paint today and started taping off the motor....the motor is painted already should I prime it? I bought some engine primer for the bare metal surfaces Im painting but what about the Orange block....Would primer do me any good? will it peel? should I just shoot the color? ruff it up with sandpaper? wire brush? and scotchbrite?

Idunno ....help

 

The lower-ranged cam would be much more appropriate. What manufacturers and part numbers are you looking at?

Partly, but L69 heads aren't going to flow enough air for the second cam anyway. The engine is a system of components, each part has to compliment the others.

Doesn't matter, after the break-in period (about 20 minutes or so), the cam and lifters are matched to each other. And actually, you've got a better chance of using new lifters on a used cam than you do of using used lifters on a new cam. I still wouldn't bother though.

Pretty meagre. About 202/206, .403/.415, 114.5.

I've always just tanked, primed and painted.

 

Just a couple of comp cams I found on Flebay for like $100 shipped
Are 305 & 350 cams Interchangeable?

I am eventually going to do something about my heads and intake.....When ever I find the "right carb" for this motor - thats first on my list since gotton this car I have had a LOOOONG "to do" list....but $$ been tite lately.....think budget.... wifes pissed about her spending $$

What about used cam on "1000 mile" lifters?
So Fuggit Im pulling the L69 cam & lifters and Im going to take a good look at them. Im still might use it, and the lifters too if they look good...... Hell, supposedly my motor has only "P-O Stated" "57,000" miles..... hell it might be 157 for all i know - theres a mileage defect on the title, never bothered me, this aint no collector....


This cam dosent seem that much better? 204/214 ,.420/.443, 112
I know Absolute $hit bout cams.... what #s do you suggest....You got any part #s



What did you do if the block was already painted? No hot tank here bro.... and Im Really handy with the rattle boms.... Im just curious if you needed primer over the old paint or if I should ruff it up and just hit it with color... I bought Ceramic stuff so it should shine after I lay 3-4 coats of it

 

Any SBC cam can be used in any SBC, as long as you're mindful of the whole roller/non-roller thing.

The L69 heads are actually some of the better ones that the factory offered over the years.

The "right carb" for a street car is the factory quadrajet.

Doesn't matter. Used flat-tappet cams and used lifters are a risky proposition. The only time you wouldn't have to worry about it would be when you're putting the cam back into the same block it was broken in on, and every lifter goes back on every lobe it was broken in on. Anything else is a crap shoot, to varying degrees. If it works, then you've saved yourself maybe $100. If it doesn't work, the cam and lifters eat each other, and you're out not only a new cam and lifters, but the you've got millions of little bits of metal all through your engine, which then has to be completely torn down and cleaned out.

It can be hard to compare cams on specs alone sometimes. The factory cams were known for their long, lazy, warranty-friendly ramps, so that they actually spend less time open than more aggressive aftermarket grinds, despite having the same advertised numbers.

Something like a Comp XE262 would be alright, the lift is low enough that it should be friendly with unmodified stock heads.


If it was already well-painted, I'd leave it painted.


Of course, this is all a lot of work just to lose a full point of compression. You could always just put the new cam into your L69 and make more power. You've also got a much better chance of actually getting that done within a weekend.

 

Well the snow is continuing here in central VA, and Im waiting for my gasket kit to come in so I have been looking at camshafts.......how does this one sound:

Cam Style .....................................................Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range..................................... 1,800-5,600
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift .......................................216
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift .....................................228
Duration at 050 inch Lift .....................................216 int./228 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration .............................................272
Advertised Exhaust Duration ...........................................284
Advertised Duration ...........................................272 int./284 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio ..............0.454 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio ............0.480 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio ............0.454 int./0.480 exh. lift







I Have been kinda bummed about losing a full point of compression too, so Ive been looking at blowers and I can grab an M90 pretty cheap (<$200), and Ive seem some pretty innovative setups with them.... check this out



pretty cool IMO......


And I found a GREAT deal on pistons.....wiil these fit and give me back 9.5:1?



Heres a link to all the specs per Summit..... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-534NP/

 

Those are better than the soup-bowls, but they're a typical "rebuilder" piston with a slightly raised wrist pin to ensure adequate piston-to-head clearance even with a heavily decked block. You'll still be losing a little compression with them. Plan on having the rotating assembly rebalanced if you change pistons.

 

They are also cast pistons. Fine for a mild build, not recommended with a power adder (although if you keep ring gap high, you can get by with low levels of power adder with cast pistons).

What cam is that, exactly? The specs are interesting, but they don't tell you how they went about achieving those specs (and LSA isn't listed). Manufacturer and cam type give a more complete story (at least, fill in more gaps).

 

Ok then so what you are saying is that Id probobly be better off buying a balanced rotating assembly......I figured as much, just for giggles though, I used to balace the rotating assemblies in my bikes ......do you know what the tolerance is? like piston and rod within ~ grams of the crank counterweight? how do I figure out what my crank counterweights weigh?
It was easy on a single cyl bike but a V8??? Ive got a plenty of digital scales around here, and usually we would luck out and the pistons were heavier and the Id just remove material from the pistons by drilling two holes in either side of the bottom of the side skirt (had a Knife edged crank, so pistons/rods were always heavier).......


And the cam is a Crane Cams 113941 - Crane PowerMax Camshafts
from Summit, and iirc the separation is 12*

 

It doesn't work like that when you do a real engine. You can weight-match the parts yourself with a scale, but the actual balancing still needs to be done by a machine shop on a crankshaft balancer.

 

Dammit!! And those pistons were going cheap,< $75.....So even if I weigh just my current pistons and pins and match the new ones to that, its a no go....seems to work in theory....ie: make new piston/pin weigh the same as old ones= balanced?????

Oh well I did find a really good deal on a M90 thats been rebuilt though.....I guess Im just gonna leave the bottom end the way Ive got it for now, add a cam and maybe a carb, or atleast a Qjet rebuild kit , and Install it as is......Later I will be buying the blower, as it should give me back more power than I lost doing the swap....next Ill address the heads/intake, maybe Vortec?....


Anyhow, Im still glad Ive got a new motor to drop in, as my old one leaked oil like Valdez..... I finally get to clean up and paint the new motor and bay, and sort out the mess of vacuum lines and wires ....Bonus....I like Having a clean ride that Im not embarrassed to pop the hood on.....That alone is worth all the trouble to me.

BTW Apeiron, Is your 84 Z stock or close to it? If I go back with the Qjet Im gonna need alot of pics to help with a proper install...Too many vac lines and a couple wires have been hacked....TIA

 

If the piston/pin/rings weigh the same, then it'll be balanced (or at least balanced as well as it was before). When you're changing to a completely different piston though, it's likely that the weights will be too different to match by just removing a little material. And if the new ones turn out to be lighter, then it's difficult to add weight to a piston.


There's nothing at all stock on my 84. It was an export LG4 car anyway, so all the wiring and vacuum were completely different from the factory than your L69 anyway.

 

Well....We FINALLY got some warmer weatherthis week so it was a go for the swap.......these are pics from yesterday when we did the pull....and yes it takes alotta PBR to pull a SBC outta a third gen T/A!!!!!



That is my bestest friend with me, and he helped construct the "Donkey Kong Swingset from hell" motor lift..... never doubt 2 southside boys, We Gets It Dunn!!!!!



And today Ive been out degreasing my engine bay and assembling and painting my new motor.....this thing is gonna look AWESOME when Im done.........more to come!!!!!!!

 

Good luck with your swap! Keep us posted!

 

Well I figured Id post up a couple more pictures from this weekend and the first one is my old camshaft from the stock motor





UHHH YIKES!!!

The pics are not the best but you can clearly see that the first lobe is almost completly wiped out, and the second is on its way out......So much for reusing my L69 cam.....the lifters were trashed as well and had black and brown Goo baked into the bottom sides of them....Looks like a few of them were not spinning in their bores anymore....they were REALLY hard to pull, had to use pliers, and work them up and down while spinning just to slide them out ....and the #1 piston had so much crap on the top of it, the carbon or whatever was SOO caked up it was peeling and flaking off the top..... question when I first got this car one of the first things I did to it was Seafoam it and Add Lucus to the oil, do you think that is what gummed up the lifters?

Pic of the #1 lifter that wiped out the lobe above




As you can see the lifter is cupped about 1/8" or better.....I was headed for a rebuild soon....... I am so glad that I am doing this swap

And now the reason for the loong post.... What can I do to prevent this on my new motor? Should I add Lucus to the oil? Is it too thick? I always have, but this is the first motor Ive torn apart since I started using it.....Seafoam - I doubt it was the cause.....It looks to me like oil starvation at the front of the motor, or running too Heavy oil....Just my guesses.....What do you think?