I saw two 301's on sell on ebay out of a 75 and an 81. Do you think this could out perform my 305 LG4? I want a 350 bad but im on a small budget and I dont have enough money yet to even buy a pos 350, but I will shortly. Any suggestions? Shoudl I jsut save my pennies for the 350?

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87 FireBird Formula
305 4bbl LG4
K&N Filter
Flowmaster 80 Series
Holley Quadra-Jet 650 CFM 4bbl Electronic Carburetor
P215/65R15 Tires

Clarion ProAudio DB315 Deck
MTX Thunder6000's 12" subs
Jensen KA3 500 Watt Amp
Pioneer 6x9s Ts-A698

-----Need Upgrades-----
--Give suggestions plz--

http://members.tripod.co.uk/michigan34/car.html

 

Save your pennies, save your reputation, save your sanity.

301's are horrible unless turbo'd. And you don't even want to go there...

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

if you don't allready have a B-O-P bolt pattern tranny, don't get one. There are really 3 major hpo-ups for the 301:

1)4 barrel intake and carb
2)Turbo (as mentioned)
3) 400 Pontiac

save up for the Ch*vy motor

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$150.00 2.8 Auto.
short block now
turbo eventually, 3.4 may be in the future

76 Bonnie: 400/400 CIA/Ram Air w/ metal clothes dryer ducting

"And you thought a Caprice was big"

Giving the enemy the opportunity to die for their country

 

301's are horrible with the turbo, they only ran pathetically in the 17's put out a lame 210 horsepower, and carcraft rated it one of the top-ten worst V-8s of all time

 

they are not bad at all, really for there time pretty damn good, the base 301 2bbl was pretty bad, but the HO 4bbl trans am motors and TTA engines were pretty good, with just messing with the boost and putting on duel exhaust they were easy mid 14 second cars. stock they wernt fantasic as they used a 2" NON mandrel bent y-pipe system with the early style VERY resctive cats that were seriously 2' long a 1' wide and sucked about 40HP and used a junk muffler. no way anything could breath with this exhaust. one of the 301's on ebay is mine (the clean 79' t/a HO 4bbl) it ran fantastic and i put in a mild 204/214 cam and that thing was pretty damn fast. would take out a 305 TBI no problem. and for 300$ is my asking price for a completle turn key engine with tons of new parts is a steal. people who say "there junk" "they suck" well i have to ask, "ever owned one or worked with one" then i got all the "well no,..." and "my dad's freind's cousin's baby sitter's mom said they were not all that good"

[This message has been edited by TempesT68 (edited December 07, 2001).]

 

Ahhh, you gotta love salesmanship!

 

I had one in a 79 Pontiac. The one for sale is obviously better than what I had. It had the 4 bbl, but even with that it wouldn't get out of its own way. I finally blew it up just for a reason to buy a new truck.



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Joshua Johnston
1991 Z-28
350, T-5, K&N, Ported Vortec heads, Edelbrock RPM, Holley 750 D.P., HEI, 11.07:1 CR, Comp Cams Roller-.510"/.520"-282*/288* dur., Shorty Headers, Dual 2.5 Exhaust, Dynomax Bullet Mufflers, T&R Motorsports custom air intake, Bald tires

 

yeah stock they are really SLOW, you think your 305 cams were small, the 301 HO 4bbl cam size stock was 170/178 370/376 i dont even want to know how small the 2bbl cams were and with the 2" non mandral bent y-pipe exhaust, secondairys that only opened 1/2 way (stop on the carb) teeny jets and horrible distributor timing is all factors that made them horrible, seriously with just a cam swap to a 204/214 420/442, getting the carb secondarys to open all the way, 500 caddy secondary jets, curving the distrib and added no catted dynomax duel i seriously must have picked up 75 HP

 

A Pontaic 301 isn't a real pontiac engine. Buy a Chevy 350 and bolt it in. Save money and kick ***. Don't waste your time trying to put a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac. They came with "corparate" (Chevy) engines so replace it with the same block. Who are you gonna get headers, motor mounts, driveshaft, tranny mount from. You better live in a place where people modify these cars of you're gonna break bread for a garbage engine when you could have gone the cheap way to get mad power.

 

Stock for stock the 301 will have a little more power than a LG4 305 but its not worth the swap about the only hi perf part you can get for a 301 is a cam, Youl'd be better off going with ANY pontiac motor BUT a 301.
Pontiac kind of screwed the 301 up by all the weight shaving they did to it,light heads, light weight rods, light weight block, light crank (with only 2 counter weights instead of 4) light weight pistons, any thing they could save weight on they did. Regular pontiac motors weigh in at 650lbs., 301 are about 450lbs. You might think all those light rotating components would be great for high revs but there not its all cast metal and it all weak, and the block and heads are thin and prone to cracking, the cylinder walls are very thin, all pontiac had in mind for the 301 was gas milege.The 301 could have been a real high rev'er too with its 4" bore and 3" stroke if only It had heavy duty parts inside.
Now for the worst of it, the heads were $#!+ instead of having the great flowing 4 intake ports of the reagular pontiac motors it had thease 2 screwed up tiny siamesed ports.301s used little tiny 1.72in / 1.50ex. valves where as its big brothers used 2.11in. / 1.77(1.66 later on)ex. in 4bbl applications and 1.96in. / 1.66 ex with slightly smaller ports in pre '67 389's and 421's and post '66 2bbl motors.

If you've got some experiance with motor swaps leave the 301, 305, and 350 behind you,and get a running driving donor car with a 389, 400, 421, 428,or 455 you'll be more than happy that you did. Even a 326, 347, 350, or 370 would be cool just make shure you buy a car or motor/tranie combo WITH EVERYTHING, you dont want to have to be hunting down brackets and other junk.

 

anyone that thinks/thought the 301 turbo motor was good should be shot

the thing was a boat anchor, think of the year, emissions stuff were in full swing, the heads sucked, cam was small, and intake was RESTRICTIVE AS ****! Plus there is really no aftermarket for the 301, which makes upgrading a real PITA. If you're set on getting a pontiac motor go for a 400+.

if not build up a SBC, save some $ and be happy

 

I agree with you that the 301 is aPOS!
I dont think anybody thinks the Turbo 301 is a good motor, just that it's better than a regular 301, wich is NOT saying a whole lot

 

Holy $#!+ I HAD NO IDEA HOW OLD THIS TOPIC WAS! For the guy who drug it up after so long, Why?(just wondering.)

 

here's a question for ya: my 76 bonnie came from the factory w/7.6:1 compression. how much more power would be gained by slapping on one of the 301 turbo set ups? It's now e-check exempt & doesn't smoke at all, & goes 80mph @ 2800 rpm. maybe there are some parts good to swap off a 301

edit: 301 not being a pontiac motor? someone's in denial

 

IMO any hot air turbo system(aka no intercooler) is a waste of time, you can't run high boost, or you have to cut back on the timing

 

Yes, the 301 Pontiac V8 will outperform all LG4 motors from 1980 to 1984. (1980 and 1981 of course being 2nd gen).

In 1985, the LG4 put out 155 horsepower, which is exactly the same as the STOCK Pontic 301 put out in 80 and 81.


THe thing is, the motor doesn't SUCK like everyone else has said.. it's actually a VERY good motor, but there are very few performance parts available for it.

You never hear anyone saying that a Pontiac 400 is a ****ty motor... well, it's the same block as a 301.


There's less demand for a 301 V8, and therefore.. there is less support for it as well.

You COULD make a 301 perform well with the same amount of money.... but trying to drop one of those into a 3rd gen will probably be a real pain in the ***... also, it's simply no where near as cost effective as a 350 is.


Todd

 

A 301 is NOT the same block as a 400, not even remotely close.

 

The 400 pontiac and 301 Have totally different blocks. a 301 block alone is about 70lbs. lighter than a 400's, the 301 has a 4" bore a 400's is 4.125"s, and a 301 has a much, much shorter deck hight than a 400 just to name a few.

 

Go to a junk yard some when you have time and pull the intake off a 301 and look at the intake ports, you'll see why people call them junk!The heads are the biggest bottle neck and problem with a 301.You can bolt good set of pontiac heads (that is if the coolent passages line up) on to a 301 block but with its short deck hight your then then your left without an intake wich leaves you with only 2 options neather of wich as ever been done( I think) 1- make a custom sheet metal intake or, 2- MAKE some aluminum intake adaptors for a chevy or mopar intake to bolt on(they used to do this with mopar cross rams onto 455 buicks). There is no way you can rework a 301s heads for performance use.301 HEADS ARE JUNK.

 

The true pontiac motors are good motors. The 301-455 can use the same heads, intake, dis, and many of the bolt-ons. I wouldn't do it, but you can. The 301 is a strong block, just not fast. The 350 is better, but still weak. My buddy had a 80 bird w/ a 350 and my m305 tbi bird would have beat it. Both are about stock. If you decide to go pon, make sure you get a good block, and know the differences between them.

 

You can not, I repeat YOU CAN NOT bolt a normal pontiac (326 - 455)Intake onto a 301, a 301 has a shorter deck hight than a 326 - 455, TRUST ME.

I not flaming you, but PLEASE when you know ABSOLUTLY NOTHING about a motor,in this case the 301, you shouldn't post info about them that you just made up off the top of your head.

A 301 may LOOK the same but it is NOT the same, a 350 olds may look the same as 455 olds but that dosnt meen its the same, it has a shorter deck hight, just like a 301 has a shorter deck hight than a 400.

NONE of those parts you listed would work on a 301, not even the distributor.

 

About the Pontiac 350 being a dog... well in stock form for a 1980, yes I'll agree. However, stock form sucked. The cam was terrible, the cat was very restrictive, and it probably had no higher compression than my 76, which was 8.2:1. Thats pathetic. A little rework and that poncho 350 would do quite well.

Like mentioned above, a 301 intake will not fit 326-up. And that means you cant put a 326-up intake on a 301.

 

Yes the 350 pontiac can be made into a geat motor, just look at the '68 + '69 HO It came with 10.25:1 compression, RA III heads w/ 2.11 + 1.77 valves ( they had to cut valve releifs in the block), a RA II cam shaft, and high flow exhaust manifolds and it made 330 hp!

 

You've got this backwards too the 301 block is a thin wall casting POS that weighs 70 lbs less than a standard pontiac block.
The 350 block is very strong, the only weak link in any pontiac motor is its rods, once you take care of the rods a pontiacs bottom end is near bullit proof.

 

Sorry lifter, I was told by a buddy of mine that has had all three motors, 301,350,455 well now it a 462 but you know what I mean. He is the one that said all that would fit. And that they all looked the same.

 

It's Ok alot of people make the same mistake, They may look the same (because the 301 was made to save $$$ for GM, by useing tooling that pontiac already had) but they are different motors.

 

The 301 was built on the same tooling as it's bigger 350-400-455 brothers. It did have a shorter deck and the heads can be made to flow. The intake manifold is probably the restriction. This engine was intended to go in the 3rd gen cars, so it should bolt in with the right mounts. Too bad GM killed the idea. It sure would be nice to see a Pontiac v8 under the hood.

 

The 301 is garbage and this is a 20 year-old thread...

 

The regular 301 4 barrel has a higher hp rating than the same year chevy 305 4 barrel.

 

They put a Turbo on a 301 it and it wouldn't even run. They put a Turbo on a worthless 3.8 V6 and destroyed Foreign exotics and everything in between.. Lol

 

If you compare a 301 turbo against a 86-87 fuel injected Grand National...then yes, the GN makes more power..... however, a same year carbureted turbo 3.8 makes less power than a 301 turbo.

 

STILL... a turd