Every ZZ4 pic I have seen Iv'e noticed that there is an EGR block off plate on the intake. If I used the Edelbrock EGR adaptor for their Vortec head conversion kit (pn# 2899) could I run EGR. I really want to do a ZZ4 swap into my 90 rs but I also have to pass emissions. I have 182k miles and am trying to figure out which engine I'm going to replace my LO3 with.

 

I don't have a clue what that kits really does or what it looks like.

I do know GM uses the hot air choke boss just below the EGR boss on the ZZ4 intake manifold to supply exhaust gasses to the valve on their carb conversion kit.

I would think you could fabricate such a line with a fitting tapped/attached to the intake for a line from your header. If the Edelbrock kit works, less fabrication work.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

 

Here is a link with a couple pics of the kit.

http://www.edelbrock.com/tech/tech_s.../3505_pix.html

 

The ZZ4 doesn't need the EGR. Here in Ca, the ZZ4 passes with out it, and this is one of the most heavily restricted emmisions in the USA. There is a EO # that lets the ZZ4 pass.

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'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...
http://www.spinfrenzy.com/stingerssx...easures.html#4

 

I see what it is now. That kit is for their MPFI conversion kit for TBI trucks using their headers. Doubt it would do much good for a 3rd gen TBI.

Stinger, got a copy of that EO? I have never heard of the ZZ4 having an exemption in anything other than the carb'd HO 350 conversion kit, and even then they use the EGR supply tube as I said above. If you are correct, you've just liberated thousands of Californians.

 

Uh, yeah. Stinger, fill us in. We are all waiting with baited breath

GP

 

The SAS design book, "Small block horsepower pt 2" has an article on it. It also has the EO #. I have this book up at my grandma's house. When I go up there I'll get it. Also, in just about every magazine article that I read about it, it says that it's a smog legal swap. I have a magazine that goes through a detailed swap, which is also up at grandma's. I should be headed up that way tomorrow. I'll get the #.

But remember, there are two ZZ4 kits that you can buy. The replacement for the F-body has xtras like exhaust manifolds, and stuff. This is the one that is CARBED exempt. Look in Street Rodder magazine. They have ads for the ZZ4 and give a $2000 price for one, then for the F-body kit, $4000,(for example).

ZZZ, ZZ2, ZZ3, and the ZZ430 I belive are not exempt.

 

The ZZ4 kit into a 3rg gen FBody is for replacing carbureted 305s with the ZZ4 (or is it only the ZZ3? I forget.). That is, officially, the only smog legal application of this motor. It requires a complete kit of parts for the swap from GM and retaining the computer controlled carb and distributor, etc.

 

I have been looking very deeply at all the part #'s involved in that smog legal ZZ4 swap.

The regular ZZ4 crate motor comes with an intake, and distributor, but the swap kit does not come with anything extra. I can only assume ( I haven't read the manual that comes with the kit) that the intake that comes with the ZZ4 crate is used, and the stock 305 distributor is used.

Also, I can find no evidence in any of the part #'s that there is an EGR tube like the Edelbrock kit, but those may be included in the exhaust portion. The part #'s there are pretty ambiguous, fitting this, adapter that.

That said, I'm pretty sure Stingerssx is confused in that the only smog legal swap for ZZ4 is the whole kit. One cannot just buy the ZZ4 crate and be smog legal. Also as others have stated, if a smog rep really digs (they'll have to if they question you at all on it) They'll see by the VIN what engine you had. If you didn't have an LG4, you will not pass.

Another thing, I seriously doubt anyone was advertising a complete ZZ4 crate motor for 2K. More likely the 330HP HO motor, which as near as I can tell, is an iron vortec headed motor with a flat tappet cam.

Anyone know the difference in weight between these two motors?

GP

 

To all:

In the may '01 issue of super chevy they swap a ZZ4 into an '86 Z28. They go through a detailed swap and explain everything.
Small Block Chevy Performance volume two, by S-A Design is the book that I have that also explaines it.
Both resources say that the part # from GM is 10185077. That will provide you with not only the exhaust manifolds, (as previously mentioned) but also an ECM, PROM, full exuast, secondary metering rods, an in-tank fuel pump, and external regulator, tranny reprograming kit, and trailing arms. It even comes with spark plugs.
This kit is smog legal in 49 state legal under EPA Memorandum 1A, and legal in California under CARB #D-278 for camaros with an LG4, or L69 from '82-'87. I'm not sure if they've been approved for manual trannies, or fuel injected yet, but they say that they were trying.
This kit was tested in an '87 camaro and produced 308 hp, and 365 ft lbs, with all accesories. It ran a 13.83.

Sorry gpierce, I'd belive that you're the one that is confused. I said for example to show the difference in the two.

If anyone has any more ?'s, just ask.




[This message has been edited by stingerssx (edited December 11, 2001).]

 

I wasn't writing that I thought you were confused on your second third post. Merely that originally you were when you wrote that the ZZ4 was a smog legal swap.

Most here would take that to mean they could go get a ZZ4 crate motor and it would be legal, when that is not true. The whole kit needs to be purchased as you and I wrote. It is VERY likely the kit includes something that accomplishes what the edelbrock part # does, just that I can't tell given the part descriptions given.

So it's misleading to say that it passes without the EGR, when no one here really knows.

If you can scan the article that goes into a detailed swap, I have a website I can put it up for everyone to see.

I may actually get this kit, not sure yet. Wanna come help install it?

GP

 

We all know what kit you're talking about. The question is if there is a tube that comes in the kit that goes from the exhaust manifold to the intake manifold hot air choke boss.

I don't know if it is the article you cite, or another, and I can't find the link right now, but one of the mag articles on the installation of this kit shows two pictures of a tube (that comes in the kit) going from the passenger side exhaust manifold to what used to be the hot air choke boss on the intake manifold crossover passage. Even though I have seen that article, I have not seen that tube listed in the parts list on the GM performance parts web site.

That's the question.

The kit has not been offered for manual trannies or FI as of yet.

The ZZ4 heads are the same thing used on the Vette L98, and they do run such a tube to the TPI intake for the EGR valve function. Buddy here has a ZZ3 (same basic engine as ZZ4) with a Vette-style TPI Bigmouth base and runs a tube from the passenger side exhaust manifold up to the intake manifold. He passes our emissions with flying colors. That's how it is done for typical EGR applications when the heads don't have the crossover passages (like the Vortec truck engines).

I have never seen any "official" documentation that a certified emissions system prom's out EGR. If you have such sources, I really suspect they are in error. People have prom'd out EGR for their own non-EGR applications, but not the factory.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited December 12, 2001).]