Hi guys i'm thinking of build a 327 for my 86 z28. Have an idea of what parts i want to use but i want to see what other people have to say.

I was planning on using block # 3914678, stock rods etc... if in good shape
then i was going to use comp cams xe268 or 274 solid cam
with a torker 2 intake, a holley 750 carb, pro comp 64cc angle heads or Patriot Performance Freedom Series 185CC 2.02"/1.60"/64cc Angle Plug Assembled Heads, with hedman longtubes i think they run at 160 a pair?
Then i was going to put a bm holeshot 2400 converter for the 700r4, and put 3.73 rear gears in the car.

I'm hoping to make 350 to 400 horspower, i don't mind making that power at 6300 rpm?

Would this combo be pretty decent?

 

Several unwise selections there.
The Torker 2 sucks, go with the Weiand Stealth AirStrike.
Patriot heads suck, go with the Brodix IK180 heads.
Forget the solid cam. It's no advantage in a build like yours.
An XE268H will get you over 375 horses and work well with the rest of this combo.
Converter and gears are fine. You'll need domed pistons.
You'd do better to sell that lame 327 and do a late 350 with roller lifters. More cubes = more average power = better acceleration, and you can expect better than 20 mpg highway.
327s are dead. Obsolete. Antiquated. NO advantage over a 350. NONE.

 

I Just looked at the heads and the only come in straight plugs, thus not being able to use the hedman headers which require angle plug heads. This is also a budget build too, i'm a first year university student, why wouldn't a solid cam be the route to go it produces more lift, and the lifters don't need to be pumped up. plus the sound of a solid lifter cam is so nice. how come you wouldn't recomend the torker?

 

First, you misunderstood Hedman's footnote. It specifies that they will work with angle-plug heads, NOT that you must use angle-plug heads. They fit fine either way.
The Torker 2 isn't even better than a stock LG4 intake manifold. The AirStrike is the best choice for maximum average power under a stock hood.
Solids aren't the advantage they were 30 years ago. Whatever old-timer is giving you engine advice needs to be told off. COMP still sells them because old-timers still buy them, and because some racing rules require them, but on the street, hydraulics have come a long way.
Solids still require regular adjustment of the rockers, whatever you may have read to the contrary, they make a horrific noise until the engine warms up, they cost you much-needed lower-rpm torque, and they're no longer any better on the top end.

 

So if i backed it down to the xe268, with the weiand stealth air strike, a decent set of heads you believe the little mouse will make around the 375 horse mark, and with the xe268 could i back the converter down? if so too what?

 

a B&M TorkMaster 2400 would be perfect for your build.

 

you know I dont mean to cut in but whoa! who told you solid cams are a thing of the past , thats the one that needs to be told off thats instant B.S. . SOLIDS ARE FINE ! Ive been building engines for years and if you want good throttle response and no valve float and cant afford a roller then go solid , yeah sure they need adjusting once every month or two but they work , they have a faster rate of lift that most street hydraulics , I just built a small block for a friend and we went with the elgin solid cam , its cheap i grant you but for a cam with 287 degrees of duration it rpms like mad and no it doesnt make a lot of noise when you first start it up thats B.S. If it were me id look at a performer rpm or airgap ,step up on the conv. just a tad and thats major bullshit about patriot heads . we got em on blown small blocks around here and they work im telling you they work , dont be misguided there are a million engine combos and just cause one guy says it wont work , well it didnt work for him , I was so impreseed with patriots small block head that when i started my big block build i went with the 320cc head they make and they look dam good out the box ! Yes i could have purchased Brodix,RHS, OR ANYONES HEADS but i went with patriot do some research there are guys out here making 650-700 horse with patriotb small block heads , the only thing i agree with is yes the 327 is a old player but gas still build them for gassers and such I used to watch a car called ''CHUCKIE';

 

THAT had a small block 327 it was the most wicked small block ive ever seen , and solids havent costed me any low end at all strait screamers , your combo sounds good short of the intake if you want to rpm and have a nasty little street motor and you cannot afford roller then go solid , yeah a little more maintenance but damn sho worth it and call Patriot , those guys are friendly as hell and will give you all the info on their stuff , dont buy into the ovreseas casting bull they dam near are all cast over seas but do all port work and cnc in house here in america rt in Alabama , if you can get a 350 then use it but with proper machine work aint nothing i mean nothing wrong wit a 327 peace ---------------------big zeke

 

and by the way im way long from being a "old timer" thats *** too!

 

thanks big zeke, about the torkmaster converters, i've "heard that their not as strong as the holeshot converters and tend to give you problems? Also there is a small chance i could pick up a 350 from a friend, would this be a decent build also

350
with a comp cam 274 solid or hydraulic, Weiand Stealth AirStrike, a holley carb( don't know how big too go?) the patriot heads, or dart ss iron heads, the hedman headers and a 2400 holeshot converter and 3.73s.

I think that this would be a pretty deadly street car, that would perform every well in the heavy street drag class, and would eat up 5.0l stangs

 

Look kid, since you're new here, let me spell it out for ya. I've been lurking here for over a year, and Atilla is a retired professional engine builder. None of us are sure what his real name is, but many many MANY guys here are convinced he is famous. You're picking a fight with the wrong guy. You would be wise to adopt a student mentality, because I've noticed that so far, NO argument has stood up to his experience, and even trying to disagree with him tends to get him very upset.

 

Well, I have support from people I haven't even helped..that's a pleasant surprise. Kingtorquer, anyone that beligerant isn't ever gonna admid they're wrong even if God Himself declared it. No sense getting stressed, especially with my cancer.
If other people want to politely state their disagreement with anything I type, that's cool. If they politely ask me to provide evidence, then I'll see what I can do.
But I'm not here to humiliate anyone, and I'm not here to spread any mis-information. I don't know everything, but if you'll read enough of my posts, you'll find that I'm quick to admit my limits. That's half of my credibility. The other half is that everything I've ever typed here in the last 2 years has either been proven correct, or I typed that I stood corrected.

 

Im not saying atilla doesn't know his stuff, if you looked at the last post, i posted i'm using the intake, he suggested plus looking at getting a totally different motor, and now am leaning towards a 274 cam hydraulic, still wanting to use the patriot heads, but looking into the dart irons too, and i didn't say he was wrong about the converter, just i've heared things about the torkmaster and was wondering if any one can mis prove, or prove this? and what size of carb to use?

 

hey im not disputing anything here , but go aluminum they dissapate heat better and you can get away with more compression , less detonantion . loosen the conv some poss 3000 stall speed , keep in mind that the engine determines stall speed that 2400 might stall at 1800 b ehind a small block but 2800 behind a big block there are a bunch on variables , gear ratio, tire size , comp and so forth , grant you the 350 would be a better choice simply cause of parts avalability . I wouldnt step over a 650 to 700 cfm on carb especially with a dual plane intake and thats what you want low end torque , torque moves objects not horsepower. go rpm or air gap , solid cam , and patriot aluminums youll be tickled pink when you ****** and grab her . As for old school my old man is one of the foremost mopar specailist in the south check the 62-65 polara site we have a 750 hborse indy headed wagon its a 63 330 supersport that runs 10.58 on motor and pulls 6 foot wheelies none as WAGONMASTER RACING , I know a little about old school .IM about to post more pics of my bbc build with the patriot heads , say good luck to you guy whichever way you go ,peace-----------------BIG ZEKE POBOYRACING

 

What is wrong with society these days?

 

so what did you decide to do my friend im curious

 

I'd go Dart Iron Eagle heads Iron heads make more power than aluminum, and I have a set i mildly ported that flow 320 cfm into a 4 inch hole with 2.080 valves at .500" lift. Solid cams offer more precise valve timing than hydrolic cams we use solid cams almost non stop and our dyno tends to agree with this way of thinking not to mention all the trophies. Hydro cams have street advantages with the lifters that you can play with, but at the end of the day all things being equal Solid>hydro. all day every day. Hydro's have come a long way from where they were, but advancement never stopped on solids either, and I think they are still ultimately superior. There is plenty of debate to be had, and the difference is probably small enough on a street car that it probably really becomes preferance. Me? I'd run roller no matter what with the oil quality being as bad as it is these days. I'd put the cam in at 102-106 no later. Weiand Team G if it fits, its an air gap single plane that has a much more up to date design than the torquer 2. Torquer 2 does suck... big time total waste of aluminum. I've been waiting for atleast 5 years for Edelbrock to update that manifold no different than Weiands X-celerator. Blah! I'm not here to argue with anyone if you don't like my opinion you are welcome to disagree with me, but there's not just one professional engine builder here. I have 17 years experiance building competition engines, and things/trends change every day. Not to mention we all have our own "finger print" we leave when we build one I offer only respect to other engine builders, and we can professionally disagree with each other without causing a bunch of drama.
~Couch

P.S. I just spent 2 weeks "fixing" the $hityest CNC port job I've ever seen in a set of Patriot heads that came in I was so disgusted with both quality and workmanship. The flow numbers were just terrible out of the box. Here's one engine builder that will NEVER reccomend Patriot heads. My wrists hurt just thinking about it. These heads are going on a sprint car too not some bench racer they actually have to perform, and I can't sit by and let that slide without saying something. Talk about heads that are good for nothing excetpt maybe wheel chauks

 

finally someone who uses solid lift cams , say NAASBC355 , I have a question for you , I myself have 15 plus in engine building , now this guy GIMARO is buiding a street car so that means we need low end torque , I dont know much about the intake you are recommending but my question is wouldnt he be better off with a dual plane on the street , hes not running a whole lot of conv. I think he wants to ride around with some torque so would that be a good fit for him ? IN MY OPINION 2.08 ARE WAY, WAY TO BIG FOR STREET USE IN A DAILY DRIVER . WHEN ON THE STREET AIR SPEED IS KING POINT BLANK IT TAKES A LOT OF VELOCITY TO RUN THAT BIG A VALVE TOP END YES , LOW END NO , MAYBE IM MISSING SOMETHING OR JUST CURIOUS BUT WHAT OF THE INTAKE YOU TALKING OF IS THAT REALLY WHAT HE NEEDS ?

 

I ran a 12.5:1 327 in my bracket Chevy II for several seasons. Biggest hydraulic cam I could find, MSD, predator carb, T400 w/brake, 411 gears. 7.50's at 90mph in the 1/8th all day long. I embarassed a lot of 350 cars. If that's what you have and what you can afford to build, go for it!!!

 

however i do disagree with you on something this is a street car with a small conv. he does not need a single plane intake hes gonna get his *** kicked on every corner with that setup . your heads flow an awful lot to be small block and iron but thats cool that may work for you . damn at only .500 inch lift and hey im a high school automotive instructor and mechanics hasnt changed , he doesnt need a single plane but only my opinion , not trying to make enemies , in fact im building a 460 cid bbc that i may want to ask a few questions of you just to get your opinion if thats cool !

 

yes youre rite but you also accomodated that big hydraulic with a brake . pred carb and and 4.11s i think this kid wants something for the street way off from 12.5/1

 

MAYBE YOU GOT A BAD SET HUH ! **** HAPPENS I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND WITH A 406 , SET OF PATRIOTS AND A 10.20 TIMESLIP AND ITS IN A DAM TRUCK . I MEAN FOR THAT MATTER I WON 500 BUCKS OFF A GUY A FEW YEARS BACK AND HE WAS BUILT WITH SOME FANCY *** HEADS OUT OF MEMPHIS I THINK RHS . I HAD A ALMOST STOCK SET OF 1968 461S WITH 1.94 VALVES SO POTATO/POTATA BUT I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU COMING FROM , YOU BUILD MANY BIG BLOCKS ?

 

Lol guys i'm not a kid anymore lol, i may be young but i driven some pretty fast cars in my short time behind the wheel. aka uncle's 06 dodge srt10 viper, and 440 69 super bee. As for what i'm going to do now. Well I'm going to buy a 72 LT1 350 short block rebuilt. Run a Comp Xr274r Cam, super victor intake, set of afr 195 heads, holley 750 double pumper, hedman longtubes to 2.5 inch true dual exhaust through flowmaster super 10 mufflers. A 2400 Bm Holeshot converter, 3.73 gears.

Will also use a stud girdle(for all those haters on adjusting valves) maybe use a rev kit just to be safe. Will also be reusing carter hi flow electric fuel pump. Putting in subframe conectters.

I think this will be good for close to 450hp, not sure tho i'm just a kid right :P

 

are you kidding me you get rid of my post but keep this turds post???

i have seen more than 20 post by atilla being a total @ss hummm57

 

you are 100% right every dam one

 

no sorry looking more into this and some are from
www.superchevy.com

 

well the power band in the team G manifold is 2800-7000 if he has good flowing heads either RPM air gap or Team G would work fine just depends on how he wants to drive the car. The benefit of the duel plane IMO is overshadowed by the converter. It would take him out of that manifolds torque band making the team G IMO more benificial. Either one would be a good choice, but with heads that flow 265 out of the box with 2.02 valves and a motor that can potentially rev 8000 rpms then single plane is whats needed to get it done it just depends on where he will be spending most of his time. The team G is what I think the torker 3 should be once Edelbrock wakes up. Yes 2.08 valves are monsters the heads I was referencing are for my personal trailor queen. I was just making a point not to mention 320 cfm would over air this motor bad until it saw the other side of 5000 rpms or so it's just not a big enough motor for that kind of air. A healthy 275-280 would do that motor fine. Just to point out though they flow 320-330 cfm with 200-210cc runners the port velocities in these heads are very very high. They do fine in anything IMO.

~Couch

 

at .600"-.700" lift they pretty much flatten out 320-330 it's extensive port work, but Dart makes a mean platform to work with. I really enjoyed these heads. I got them because of the runner design, and they outflow everything else with a 200cc intake runner (what they started as) they are still less than 215cc. I wasn't worried about weight like I was power production, and thats what I'm getting aluminum heads shed too much heat so you sacrifice power.

~Couch

 

Not a chance we really labored over this issue for a month before even cranking up the die grinder. We were so excited to see the "new cutting edge bada$$ heads" from Patriot, then we pulled them out of the box: I didn't even need to flow them to know they were $hit. I haven't built any BB's lately the last was a Pro Mod motor.

~Couch

 

[quote=GI Maro Well I'm going to buy a 72 LT1 350 short block rebuilt. Run a Comp Xr274r Cam, super victor intake, set of afr 195 heads, holley 750 double pumper, hedman longtubes to 2.5 inch true dual exhaust through flowmaster super 10 mufflers. A 2400 Bm Holeshot converter, 3.73 gears.

Will also use a stud girdle(for all those haters on adjusting valves) maybe use a rev kit just to be safe. Will also be reusing carter hi flow electric fuel pump. Putting in subframe conectters.

I[/quote]


this is how my combo is looking now any expericence with any of these parts, and should i step up the cam, and converter a bit

 

One last word to everyone in here then im gonna stop talking about drama on this poor dudes thread: We all have our own opinions and that doesn't make a one of us stupid or ill equiped it means: big suprise we are all different. You know what I wouldn't want any one of your motors not one person here. I want my motor. If we all ran what the other guy put together there would be no fun in this and we would all have flathead fords because we would have never come out of the dark ages. It's progress it's a learning curve. It's how we gain experiance. Failure is the best teacher so long as you pick up and move on. Personal attacks on other peoples point of view opinions or experiance from either direction shows a complete lack of testicular fortitude so everyone calm down cool off and lets all just hang out and chill cuz you know what whatever motors we build now will blow up someday, and our kids will go on to build motors we cant yet fathom so your gonna get your A$$ stomped at some point thats something you just have to deal with. Getting on the internet hiding behind a computer and attacking people over a simple point of view or opinion just isn't worth wasting time in this life over. Simply disagreeing with someone is welcome, but theres no reason to be attacking anyone personally. We can all fight each other after we're dead for now lets limit that kind of competition to the race track. The bullshit stops when the light turns green.


~Couch

P.S. this was not directed at any particular person this was directed at every particular person. Just because I have an opinion, preference, or style doesn't mean I'm right. It means I'm human

 

Ya super victor will have no port velocity below 5500-6000 rpms if you use that intake put the cam in at 100-102 The cam is really too small and the compression ratio will be way to low for this manifold to work right. Sheesh this is ugly, um you may have to experiment with carb spacers in order to get the port velocities up in that manifold the plennum volume, and port tapper angles scares me for those heads, comp. ratio, and cam. LCA is too wide for that manifold so you're going to have to wait for air speeds to pick up much longer than you would if you had a "lesser" manifold. With the right cam the converter won't work though. Are you planning on drag racing this car? The expansion waves, and pressure pulses are going to be all over the place until you get up in an rpm band where the manifold comes into tune. I think you need more rpms, more lift, and a narrower lobe sep., and much higher comp. ratio to really see that manifold come to life. Everything else is decent. If you step the manifold down a notch I think you would enjoy the car more, and could put the cam in at 102-106, and be much happier. The only thing I would change about it is RPM air gap or Team G manifold other wise I think that would be a killer combination. You don't need a rev kit for it though I don't think. Stud girddles are a must but that doesn't mean you don't have to adjust the valves as often that needs to be a once an oil change kind of thing, or even more often. Huh XR274R cam huh? funny you should mention that cam as I have one right here on the floor.

~Couch

 

ihave a 327 in my camaro...not much for compression though. id say 275-300 horse. kand n, msd, flex-a-lite. 700r4 with bm 2400 stall, corvette servo,transgo shift kit, 4.10 gears with eaton posi....i like it and it moves for me...my gears are to steap highway...would like 64cc heads in future

 

Ya i was just flipping through on summit racing at the super victor, and it just seemed to be a bit much, so i'm either going to use that team g intake or the victor jr. this car will be on the strip.. i don't want to run faster than 11.25 tho lol.. It will see sunday night cruise nights, and a little weekend driving. I was also thinking about stepping the cam up to xr280r and a 3000 bm holeshot converter. Would this be better than the xr274r and the 2400 holeshot.

As with regards to intakes i want to try and keep my stock hood, i want people to look at my car when its parked and think ohh its a nice stock third gen, then you fire it up and people are like holy **** lol

 

the vic jr. is better, but still a little much i think. That intake will flow a 650 horse motor without a problem. The super vic makes 700 hp. See youtube video search: "Couch's Automotive Racing Services". Or search Dyno Pull on this site. The 280 cam may be a stretch as well for the gear and the comp. ratio you'd be right there on the border line. Me id rather have some mid range power to get the car moving. Putting too much manifold on the car can actually badly hurt hp numbers much worse than having a more conservitive approch. Think of it like this: The car is going to see 2000 - 6000 rpms and have to pull through that band a lot more often then it will have to pull from 5000-8000. So with a more conservitive manifold it will still do the job it's being asked very well. The nasyier manifolds are for operating in that band, and that band only. Super Vic manifold is a NASCAR manifold those motors see 2000 rpms twice in a lifetime once when they start it up and once when they kill it just before tearing it down. Thats the difference. Drag racing is mid range torque and what rpm's the motor can turn to hold off shift points. NASCAR is pedal to the medal 6000-10000 rpms for 500 miles, but thats all they do thats the rpm band they perform in. This makes them very good at what they do, but crappy for pretty much everything else. You can't pull stumps with a NASCAR even tho they make up to 650 ft. lbs. tq, and up to 950hp. They just can't operate down there.

~Couch

 

I watched both of your youtube videos. Very nice, as for the intake i'm really leaning towards the team g intake, looked on a couple other forums no body really has anything bad to say about them. Now its just for the cam/gear/converter combo. On comps website, it says the 280 should work with a 3.73, but as you said its going to be on the border line, what would my compression be with the LT1, from the factory they had a 9.0.1 ratio but that was with a 75cc head, with a 65cc head it should be close to 10.1 to 10.5.1??? I think. If not is there a comp cam that is inbetween the 274 and the 280

 

head gasket thickness? and no those are really the only cam choices for this type of profile If you use a similar head gasket to what they used to measure that comp ratio, then I'd say it should go up a little more than a point putting you 10.2-10.25:1

~Couch

 

If you put it together right, and everything works together as well as it should you should make 540hp @ 6500, and 505 ft. lbs. of tq. @ 4500 according to Cam Quest 6 which isn't a very good sim program but you can see trends that are set. Vic manifolds would be tuned way above that rpm, and would hurt power output. The power numbers are probably off but peak rpms are usually close. at that peak rpm number you need an intake runner with a total length of 20" long. from the top of the barrel of the carb. to the valve. You may still have to use a small spacer to get that length, but if you don't it should be pretty close as it is.

~Couch

stop shopping at summit start shopping at speedway, much cheeper, and better people.

 

couldnt have said it better. people are always going to come in here and try to push the IM BETTER deal. and it really sucks that they usually try to aim it the ones that really do know what they are doing and are really trying to help those that need it.

 

say wuts your thoughts on a chet herbert solid roller it may be too late to ask since i already purchased the cam but curious if you ever used them in the past . thanks POBOYRACING

 

I was planning on just using the stock gasket thickness, and that 540 hp and 505 tq, was that with the bigger comp cam and the junior victor, or the team g intake and the 274 cam? Thank you a ton this is helping alot

 

Well those numbers are sort of bull$hit, they are just for setting trends so you know what you are getting. That particular sim program doesn't let me play with things like rod length, specific runner designs (flow isn't everything), piston, rod, and crankshaft weight, etc. thats just according to them and I have no idea what formulas they use to come up with their numbers, but where the peaks are is usually accurate. To answer your question that was with a "high flow" intake manifold as apposed to a "max flow" or "std flow" intake manifold (lol), and the smaller cam. With the combination I gave the program the bigger cam only increased hp by a small number, but had a lower avg. hp, and increased peak tq., but only by 1 ft.lb., and also had a lower tq. avg. When I get Dynomation up and running I can run a much more accurate sim until then I'm stuck with this one. Those numbers may be close, but there are a lot of variables involved that can't be accounted for.

~Couch

 

Never heard of it sorry, our thing lately has been "custom cams" like the company. Isky does a good job for the circle track stuff (custom grinds), and comps custom grinds were good for a while, but have lately been shown up by custom. Which is good cuz custom makes you pay for it, but the cam you have them grind gets your name for a part number, and they pay you if you allow anyone to use it. Bullet cams are supposed to be the absolute most accurate cams around we have one of those in an Olds 350 powered bomber (hobby stock) dirt car with a set of heads I worked over, the driver is real conservative, but no one can catch it on a strait away. They were number 8 in the nation before their home track shut down. Not bad for an Oldsmobile!!

~Couch

 

okay that sounds resonalbe i'm leaning towards the bigger cam, the jr victor, and the 2800 i know i'm gunna lose a bit of average and midrannge but i think i'm running enough compression and gear to make it work well, and i'll probelly try a spacer or two, to see if there is a difference

 

how come no one mentioned a custom ground cam from howards

I think the 2800 stall will not be enough

 

the smaller cam has better power avearages, unless you raise the comp. ratio i'd go with the smaller cam we use the XR274R in 11:1 motors. I feel like the XR280R requires more, and once again the Vic Jr. will over air that motor till way up in the rpm range. I think the car would be much faster if you used a lesser intake, and cam then what you are leaning towards. Power comes from a sound combination not a bunch of racey parts on a conservitive short block. That combination won't work well. The motor wont operate in the rpm band for that manifold to work right. It's better to use a lesser manifold than needed then it is to use too much manifold in drag racing. Like I said before if you were going to go endurance or sports car racing then that manifold would be in the right place, but I think an RPM air gap or Team G would work much better for drag racing with that combination. You are already over camming the motor with the XR274 as it is. An even better fitting cam would be the XR268 to be realistic. You just don't have the shortblock to get the port velocities up high enough for the manifold, and the 280 cam.

~Couch

 

All these cams require are 2500 for the XR274R, and a 2800 for the XR280R. Why wont the stall work.

Why would we have mentioned Howards cams?

~Couch

 

Yea, i guess that would make sense, i don't want to be one to run around on the street at 25mph and hear cam, i'll go with the 274 cam, and team g intake, how fast just a rough estimate will my car be in the quater if it gets a little traction

 

Guessing that is a black art in itself google some et calculators I cant even begin to guess there are too many variables involved. you can do the math and find out what it's potential would be

~Couch

 

I seen on dragtimes(don't know if its a decent source a guy with a 86 z28 like mine with 379 horsepower to the wheels, with a 700r4 tranny and a big stall(4000) with 3.73 gears. And he ran a 10.8 at 126.. just ran an et street tire, so with a smaller stall but more power. It should run deep into the 11s