okay i have a built 1973 sbc 400 .60 over with about 10.9 to 1 comp and a .504 .525 lift cam, harland sharp full roller rockers, aluminum fast burn heads 64 cc chamber 200 cc runner and its n/a. the main problem is everything is new and it wont start. ive had it runnign to break in the cam then we adjusted the valves likee normal, and ever since we have had problems with the starter. it was eating the teeath up on the flywheel so we shimmed it out and it made it worse. havent gotten started since. the first starter was a proform starter staggered pattern for a 168 tooth flywheel and it worked for the break in and then it started eating the teeth up and then making grinding noises. we took the bolts out of the starter and it bent them!!!! any explanation to that? so we thought it was the starter itself, maybe the holes were not straight so we took it back to summit racing and got a powermaster starter part number pwm 9200 and we installed it and it wouldnt do anything. so we pulled all the spark plugs out and hey what do ya know there was an excess of gas in it but not enough for it to be hydro locked..and the plugs were full of carbon deposits so we cleaned those up and left them out to clear out the motor. well we can turn the motor over by turning it form the crank bolt with the plugs out but it is kinda rough to turn and takes some strength. so we tryed to turn it over with the starter and the starter just hops on the flywheel and wont even turn the damn thing at all!!! whats wrong please someone help im so aggravated with this car its ridculous.

 

Trans have fluid--IE--Trans isnt toast & locked up?

Flex plate bolts torqued? Flex plate cracked?

My best luck was with a severe duty 3hp mini. Seemed the hi-compression bigblock liked to eat flex plates with the slower 2hp mini not retracting fast enough.
What is the starter rated?

Just a few ideas---


( edit )
Can you use a breaker bar to turn the motor?
I forget what it should turn over at with a torque wrench, somewhere around 60-70 ft pounds with the plugs out?? Double check that--I just don't recall!!

 

its a flywheel just to clarify not a flex plate its a stick not an auto. yes there torqured and i dont think the flywheel is cracked. it is also runnign true when we tried cranking it when it actually turned over.. yes trans has brand new fluid and isnt locked. also the starter wont retract all the way when cranking only goes back all they way when it starts yet we have only accomplished this once. the first starter that ate the teeth was rated at 18 to 1 comp and this one is like 10 to one comp and i have about 10.9 but i mean the starter cant even budge the flywheel with it being only rated .9 under what i got a cant imagine it wouldnt even move the stinkin thing

 

Sorry about that-- IDK why I thought flex!!

Friend has a similar motor in his 84 with 6 speed trans.

The problems we ran into were no start then vibration then no start.

Re ran the valves, & he did something with the balance weight on the flywheel. IDK if he put it on or took it off. Got the carb re worked.

Following the thread-- I'm interested in wtfun is going on!!

 

what do you mean by re ran the valves? could i possibl;y have my rockers to tight and its causing somethign to do this? and yes with the plugs out we can turn the motor over with a 1/2 inch ratchet dont even need a breaker bar buuuuuutt it does take some force to move it with the plugs out but it does move.

 

After break-in, it's a good idea to recheck lash.
What carb are you using? Sounds like you're getting fuel.
Hydrolic or solid cam?

Still doesn't explain flywheel being eaten!

 

yeah im getting fuel actually it was almost to much fuel thats why we pulled plugs out to see if it was hydro locked and it really wasnt to full at all barley any gas came out and its an edlebrock 600 cfm carb. and i have broken it in and adjusted the valves while runnign and since i adjusted them i started having problems with the starter bs. hydralic flat tappet cam. i wonder if to much adjustment in the valves would cause this but idk how it would if it is the case. ill adjust hem in the next day or so but in the menatime more ideas the marrier!

 

Did you do the " paper clip " trick when setting the starter?
Get a paper clip & straighten it.
With the starter bolted in--
Pull the starter drive gear to the flywheel.
Insert the paper clip between the flywheel & starter gear.
The clip should fit between the tooth of the starter & the gap of the flywheel.
Shim or remove shim(s) as needed.

Is there any interference of the starter with the oil pan // exhaust?
Wondering if something is keeping it from aligning correctly.?.?

I'm baffled if its all good in those areas.!.?.

Sorry, but as for me, that's all I can think of!!

 

yes it is shimed corrrectly, and we clearance everything so the starter isnt up against anything so make it not line up correctly.

 

I've adjusted my valves too tight before, and it was definately harder for the starter to turn the engine, the engine wouldn't start, but once I loosened them it started just fine.
Can you turn the engine by hand with the spark plugs in? Or can the starter crank the engine with the spark plugs out? Is the starter gear getting chewed up or the flywheel? Have you bench tested the new starter? Is the battery good, or does it have any corrosion or looseness on the terminals?
A few years ago I had a heat soak issue with my OE starter, so I thought I would "upgrade" to a high torque mini starter but went the cheap ebay route and it had a terrible grinding sound when cranking and eventually it chewed up the teeth on the starter. So for the next one I went with a remaned LT1 starter and haven't had any issues since, not that that will help you since you have a 168 tooth flywheel.

 

mcgarnicle thank you soooo much! turns out i had a few bound up springs! that one was my falut for adjusting them way too tight.

but now i got one last problem. with the plugs out the starter will turn the motor over beautifully. no problems or odd noises at all, but as soon as we put the plugs back in and it has compression the starter will grind on the flywheel and it will also flex up and down and it flexes at the pivot point of the bolts. any ideas on why this does that?? im going back to summit tommorow so get my old starter that was bending bolts because that was able to turn over more compression than this one. but in the meantime any help as to why it does this will be greatly appreciated..

 

Getting to what mcgarnicle said--
Fully charge the battery. Also, ensure the starter wires are all tight, & the starter bolts too.
I didn't have one when I got our Camaro, but do you have a brace on the back of the starter? IDK if they have one, our '74 did.

 

no there is no brace.. i wonder where it would attach to? most likely the block right cuz the motor flexes so it wouldnt go to the body right? and yeah we out the battery back on the charger for the night, and yes the wires were tight. and the teeth on flywheel are getting chewed not the starter teeth and yes we bench tested starter and that was good as well. also connections were not corroded since it is brand new

 

The older brace was kind of "C" shaped and was bolted to the motor block & the back of the starter. I don't know if they came on 3rd gens. Our Camaro was basicaly a body full of parts. I'll ask my friend if he remembers any probs we had. Geez, that was 12 yrs ago!! lol!!
If there's still a grinding problem with a charged battery, it would most likely benifit you to stop trying to start the motor, IMO-- it's no fun replacing a flywheel!! Not too hard, just alot of choice words, time, & moola.

Scenarios--
Fully charged battery, re-lashed vaves, good starter--- Tooth grind ---
STOP!! There's a binding problem!! Obviously!! You can't procede til it's figured out. ( edit ) Which is what we're trying to fix.

Starter still moves like it wants to go on vacation while starting---
Same as above!!

She starts!! WOO HOO!! Back in business!! Now timing gets done!! SMILE & GRIN daddy!!! You have a new baby to play with!! HOPEFULLY no more grinding!!! If it re-occurs, STOP!!

I know you know not to keep grinding the starter... Just a lil !!

 

ok so you think if i put this new starter in and it grinds again then i have more binding problems in my valve train? and yes will agree flywheels are pricy! ill keep it updated with whats happening and maybe i can find a brace your talking about

 

Last thing I can think of but** not likely**--
warped flywheel.

Not impossible but highly highly unlikely. Just another thought, so I owe you a nickel.

When the valve lash was set, how was it done??

I honestly don't know if there should be a brace.

With the starter moving like that, when you go to Summit, ask if they know or have any suggestions. After all, they pride themself on customer service. Maybe a tech will be able to talk to you???

If you were around here, I'd let you use my starter.

 

yeah ive had a few other ppl ask we if the flywheel was runnin straight or if it was torqued properly and the answer is its straight as far as i can tell and it is torqured correctly.

when i did the valves what i did was backed the nut off till i could move the roller up and down a tad then tightened till it went away then just a 1/4 turn after that i know im going to have to redo them i just wanted to check and see if this caused a problem and it fixed one of them

 

we did it!! it runs amazing. pulls very hard tooo )))) thanks you guys for your advice it sure paid off!

 

what did you do to fix it. im having the problem with my starter grinding. i shimed it and it cranks fine but the starter gear gets stuck in the flywheel. its a new motor and i want to get this thing started soon. spring is comming!

 

the main reason why it was grinding was because we had the valves way to tight. get those things checked out and adjust the valves correctly. then after that gets done make sure your ignition timing is set at about 0 to 0 to start with then adjust the dizzzy with a timing light then it works. i also got a starter that has 18 to 1 comp ratio that it can turn so i had no problems with too weak of one. try those and let me know what happens. and i dont have any shims.

the starter gear should come out of the flywheel when it spins the flywheel automatically kicks it back. if it doesnt try shiming it out just a tad see what happens. but id check your valves before anything cuz thats the easiet to do

 

well i got a new starter from advance and it works good. it disengages also. i was all happy and i had the motor running for the first time tonight. then i figured ill check the oil to see how it looked and it was nothing what white and milky

 

that means a seal is bad somewhere

 

i hope it is on the drivers side. the passenger side has heater, ac and a bunch of junk in the way. drivers side is easy to get to haha

 

whats the part number cause im having the same issue and does is start gringing again at all?