b0tt0ml355p1t7

Hello everyone,
I own an 87 IROC Camaro with a 305 tpi 5spd transmission. What would be the best engine to swap? People have told me the ls1 or lt1 engine. I thought of a 390ci but my friend said it wouldn't fit. Is he right? Just let me know what you think is best. Thank you very much.

AlkyIROC

Depends on your budget and mechanical ability. A "best" engine, may not be cost efficient or a direct swap. Anything is possible with enough time, money and fabrication skills.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Technically anything can fit.

Really depends on your budget, LT1 if your budget isnt high enough for an LS1, if it is high enough then LS1 or better.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Thanks a bunch z28ricer. I do not have a budget. I should have put that in the post as well.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

And thank you AlkyIROC. But can I put in a 390 without having to expand my front end?

AlkyIROC

A 390 what? Ford?

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Yeah. It would be out of an old Thunderbird.

AlkyIROC

Will it fit? Try it and let us know. Every aspect of the swap will be custom. I don't work on ford engines so I have no idea on dimensions etc. Does it have a front or rear sump?

b0tt0ml355p1t7

I don't know. I will have to get it before the junkyard sells it to someone else. They want $600 for it. Is that a good price? Considering it is a little rusty looking it would look like it'll work. I don't know. Maybe. Let me know what I should do. It would be my first swap.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

This sounds terrible, no you shouldnt.

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

First, the 390 is not worth it. Second, it would be easier on the swap to remain with GM engines. Third, think forward, not backwards. This means stop looking at the old carb'd BBC of yesteryear. Think fuel infected LS based motor. Good power, good reliability.

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Fourthly, what is wrong with your LB9? Fifthly, the T5 does not like a lot of abuse/more power.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Thanks. I needed to know that as well. I appreciate the response. Nothing is wrong with my LB9. I would like to put an ls1 or lt1 or even a 350 in my car. Can I make my LB9 more powerful to beat the ******* ricers? Also I would change my transmission if I had to.

1gary

Not for nothing,but here is the engines dimensions.How you use it is you compare what you know fits with what you want to swap.

http://www.carnut.com/specs/fengdim.html

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Ahh. I see. Thanks a lot for this. I appreciate it.

5spd-iroc

i just built a 406 sbc and its at least 525 hp, i would consider selling it to fund my 434 c.i. built but NJ is a bit far to ship it

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Just keep your 305 while you save up to build a motor. I don't think 16 year olds are usually rolling in dough...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Bottom line: There is no possible way to answer that question.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the answer.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Everything here posted here is 100% right. The questions you need to answer are simple.
Do I have the ability to do the modifications necessary?
Wiring?
Engine mounting?
Trans properly hooked up?

Exhaust?

Will I have to pay for it to be done?

What are my goals for the swap?
Ease?
Horsepower and torque?
Costs?
Down Time?
And probably many more.

For a first swap you are probably needing relative ease.
Do you have another car to drive? If no then obviously little down time.
If you are planning on doing the work do you understand the Wiring involved in a LT1 or LS swap? If not then plan on more down time.

If you can answer these questions for us we can try to guide you closer to a swap that is good for you.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

I answered these sets of questions to the best of my knowledge.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Most of the questions still stand for what exactly your friend knows.
As for what you expect from it everyone can have a different idea of what you might be meaning. For the 295 HP we need to know fwhp or rwhp? For the flywheel HP a well built 350 TPI can do it. For the rwhp I would reccomend looking at LT or LS. The torque is not a propblem with any of them. From the way I understand it you would probably be happiest with a LS swap. Definitely the highest power potential. An LT swap could possibly meet your goals but with less aftermarket support to upgrade later.
I am trying to look at it from your point of view as I am mostly concerned with a good showing based on cars of my year range. Plus I never race. For this a reasonably built 350 TPI will work for me.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

My friend knows everything about the car. He has a ton of experience working on the third gens. He can do everything inside and out. I am leaning towards an ls1 engine but I just have to find one. With the supplies and parts I need would now be the question? What would I need? I want to keep my car manual. Where can I get the parts? And thanks for the reply.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

I also want to keep it rwd.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

If you are decided on the LS1 then your friend will need to know how to adapt the LS1 wiring to a third gen. If you choose to keep the ac plan on notching the K member.
WIth that in mind you will need to find a 98-02 F body LS engine or a 2002? and up truck coil per cyl engine or one from any other LS powered car. The truck engines are typically still called vortec for those years but are LS engines, 5.3 and 6.0 L.
You will need the engine and harness and computer. I do not know what works for the accessories. For the manual trans you need to find a 98-02 f body 6 sp T56. It would be best If you could get the engine and trans and harness and ECM from the same car. Using the F body LS engine should give you the proper accessories I would think. I would also read any and all threads on LS swaps you can find on here. Look at the sticky's at the top for some good starters. Then search. Read the first 3 full pages of the T56 swap thread sticky also.
It is not a cheap swap and you can reuse almost nothing from any V8 that may have been original.
Good luck. As I do not know much about the swaps I can not be of much more help to you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

We have a sticky for that (sorry, no ap).

That's reassuring.

Stephen Norton

you said you have no budget?, if that is the case, you could buy a 98-02 z28 or SS and take all required materials from that and put it into your iroc. but im not sure how much room you are working with, and im not sure if you would have enough room to have another car in your driveway. coming from my point of view, if i had that opportunity, i would by an 02 SS 6speed , and transfer the engine, trans, etc. into the iroc, then transfer the stuff from the iroc, into the SS and then sell it

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

That's a given. What else would you possibly do with it.

blackbmagic

lol 295hp and 300ft/lb thats all?...you can swap in a brand new gm 350 long block for 2 grand.

Or build it. Get an early 350 block, get it cleaned up, bored .030 over. Pistons, rods, valve train, heads, intake, and carb it. You can be well on your way to 400+ hp for only slightly more $$.

But really if you have no budget then why not have a boosted ls454 installed. I mean come on you expect us to believe you have no budget?

b0tt0ml355p1t7

I plan on saving up enough money to get what I want done. So what I plan on doing is finding out what I want to do, find out how much I need, save up and then get it all done.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

If he is only concerned about engine HP I would agree but if RWHP it is easier to do an LT or LS swap and be better for a daily driver.
The reason I chose RWHP is I feel that with 300 FWHP he would feel it still isn't fast enough. He can get 300 RWHP with a 350 but it is going to require a more thought out engine build. With the LS he can just swap it in and be at his goals leaving room to upgrade later if he feels it is necessary.

Podium

iTrader: (2)

Colbolt front subframe swap lol

FirebirdFanatic

Bottomlesspit.... you don't seem to know much about cars and engines. This is not a put down, just a statement of fact - you seem to have a passion and you will learn a great deal as you go on. Everyone started with no knowledge.

Since you don't know a lot, you have to decide if you are mechanically inclined enough to do the work or if you will have the money to have someone else do it for you.

Cubic inches do not equal power. A 390 Ford FE is not better than a 350 Chevy. FE Fords stopped production a long time ago and development of new technology like heads stopped as well. 350 Chevy production stopped just 10-15 years ago, so it gets the benefit of things like Vortec heads. This is why small block Chevy's are more popular than big blocks - the technology of the SBC caught up to and surpassed the BBC.

So my first recommendation is to focus on power, not cubic inches.

My second recommendation is to stay with a Chevy engine of some sort. Don't reinvent the wheel - you have no idea of the heartache you will get into trying to put a Ford V8 into your Camaro, from electrical wiring to transmission tunnel dimensions to possibly having trouble running unleaded gas in heads designed for leaded. You also have no idea how lucky you are that you are staring with a car that came with a Chevy v8.

Option 1) Upgrade your 305 with headers, exhaust and intake. Real power is made in the heads, and to a lesser extent the cam selection. You can make more power on your 305 by opening the intake and exhaust. But until you get new heads, you will not see a bunch of new power. And when you put new heads on a 305, most people would recommend you just upgrade to the 350 block, which leads to...

Option 2) Replace your 305 block with a 350. I was looking at a 350 L98 for $850 just a couple days ago, complete with a TPI setup, but I have seen lots of 350 blocks for about $100, and even for free if I wanted to go pick them up in the boonies. Since you already have a TPI setup, you could just get a block, crank and pistons (called a short block) and start by using your existing heads and intake. You will need a few more things which are easily found on this site by searching "305 to 350 swap".

Options 1 and 2 are not very expensive, and can be done by someone who is mechanically inclined without committing suicide. Your T5 may blow up, so be prepared to spend money on fixing it or replacing it if it does.

Option 3) Swap to an LT or LS engine which will also necessitate a swap to a T56. Do this if you plan to keep the car forever AND you can afford it. There are posts on this site about how much it costs, some have gotten away for a couple thousand all in, but they did a lot of the work (if not all) themselves and had a nearly complete donor car. For those of us that don't have a welder in the garage, you should be prepared to spend a lot more for the modified parts or for someone to do the work for us. I would highly recommend you know what you are getting into if you go this route, or save enough to have a shop do it for you.

Find a local club for thirdgens if possible - you will be amazed how fast you get up to speed about what works and doesn't work.

Finally, realize that your car is 25 years old. Technology marches on - if you are trying to be the fastest person on the block, you are better of starting with a newer car. Personally I care more about the driving experience and the connection to the car. There is always someone faster - always. But most of them are driving Jelly-beans with automatics and front or all wheel drive - they are never going to have the fun I have with my old beater with a manual and rear wheel drive. It's some of the best stress relief around.

b0tt0ml355p1t7

Thank you so very much. I really appreciate it. I will take all of this into consideration and look more into the options you gave me. I want to be fast and beat most of the guys on the street but I want to beat all ricers practically. But if I don't then I don't. They win for who knows what. I will get back to you of what I will decide.

dr3wberryTM

I was looking for this same info about a few months ago. Turns out, it was easier to just go spend 20k for a car already built with the horsepower I wanted. And best part is I kept my iroc z28 unmolested so it's actually worth something in the future. Don't know if you got your swap done. If not I wish you luck with it in the future. It's a major PITA.

rusty vango

theres a guy around here with a "385" series ford 460 in a 82 SC. they are a front sump engine but they can be modded.like anything else. IMHO the OP shouldn't even THINK of such blasphemy.

rusty vango

ah, to be young with the whole world laying before you.

Michael1st

Best Bet I think is Find a Mustang to Swap the IROC Camaro for if you're Set on using the Ford Thunderbird 390 and put the 390 in a Mustang.
It would be a lot more workable. Ford to Ford, Not Ford in Chevy. Maybe if you had a 427 Shelby engine and lots of cash and an Engineer, otherwise waste of time and money and Sweat!

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

25+ years in professional auto repair business, Lifetime DIY "Car Guy" and I would not even consider a different brand engine.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I'm considering a Remote Control Gas Airplane, engine swap, for my Nose Hair Trimmer!

WildCard600

This thread.

Tom 400 CFI

LOL. With about the same career duration as you have, normally, I wouldn't either. Buuuut....I did it anyways, with THIS THING. That doesn't mean that I think the OP (or anyone) should put a Ford engine in a 12-year-old, Chevy thread....but when the stock engine is 88 hp and costs over $5000 to rebuild, you start looking at other options!

ironwill

Still waiting for the "I want to swap a Cummins 12-valve engine into my 3rd gen" thread.

Tom 400 CFI

LOL. That's a good'n. Someone did a Duramax in a Corvette. I thought it was a waste of a Corvette....and a Duramax.

ironwill

With a 1000+ pound engine in there, I'd imagine that car would handle like a brick.

Tom 400 CFI

I agree. I thought that it was a terrible idea. Someone did it just to say they did, I guess. Or maybe it was a spoof.