bonylad

My father and I are looking to remove the 305 and drop a 283 outta his 65 Impala into the RS. Pretty sure we got the basics down, but Im looking to a LG4 fuel tank sending unit.

Anyone have a place they use? Part number? Looking to accumulate the parts needed to make the swap so its all lined up!

Thank you!

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Why the swap to the 283? Did the 305 give up the ghost?

Are you going carb?

Everything will swap over without issue.

bonylad

We had the spare motor, the 305 has been sitting for awhile and the 283 is fresh. It has better heads, intake, etc......desktop dyno rated the 283 at about 260 chp or so. Add a cam and some headers with a good tune.........should be alot better than the TBI. Also the simplification and weight loss would be worth it.

I should have read a little more about the fuel pick up. I think once we get to it, I will just pull the factory unit, cut and compression fit a line with sock on it like seems to be popular here.

Thank you sir!

90camaro355rs

Old school 283, Nice way to go. Dont see that evey day. Post pics of the car and your progress. Wanna see it go together.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

What heads does the 283 have?

bonylad

It actually has a weiand IM on it and powerpack heads too. I was gonna update my last until you posted.

Kicked my self the other day because I missed the bid on a matching set of M/T valve coveres and air cleaner setup.........

Debating on whether to remove the hvac box under hood or what. Def. gonna delete all the other crap.......no a/c....no p/s......no radio......no speakers..............

Thanks!

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Just curious, but where are you? Do you require any emissions testing?

What year is the car?

I'd keep the stock pickup, should be no need to change it if you aren't changing the intake/TBI/stock fuel delivery set up.

bonylad

Powerpack, sir.

bonylad

North Carolina. Its a 92 RS, so no emissions testing.......however all oem smog equipment should be present..........but thats really just nc bs.

bonylad

Yes, I am going carb. The 396 bbc we swapped in had no need of the sbc parts.........so its complete with dizzy and carb already set up.......

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Ok. Going carb, I'd almost say just leave the TBI in it, it'll run just as good.

But, if you're hell bent on going carb, just get a fuel regulator, Mallory 4309 is a common choice here (It's what I use as I run a 255lph in-tank pump on my carbed car). No need to change the pickup this way.

Go with some Hooker or Dyno Don shorties and a 3" catback. That'll help out alot as well.

What carb? I'd recommend a vacuum operated Qjet.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Then the heads won't have the accessory bracket bolt holes for your 3rd gen accessories. Maybe you planned on using the '65 stuff, but life would be easier with your 3rd gen alternator and power steering pump (serpentine > V-belts).

Also, those heads were built back in the leaded fuel days, meaning the valves and valve seats weren't hardened. Perhaps that's been taken care of, but if not, they aren't a very good choice for a pump gas engine.

Don't know how to break this to you, but the 3rd gen carb'd 416 305 heads were better than power pack heads, as was the 3rd gen intake manifold. Of course, if the power pack heads have been completely worked over - porting, larger valves, hardened valves & seats, etc. - then they might be as good as the 416's; and an aftermarket intake manifold negates the differences between the factory pieces of each era.

Not sure I'd say carb is better than TBI, though.

How do you figure the 283 is lighter than the 305?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oh, your 3rd gen starter won't bolt to the 283 block, either. If you want to use the 283 starter, it needs to be a 168-tooth flexplate. If you have a T5, a 168-tooth flywheel won't fit in the T5 bell housing.

bonylad

The motor has been rebuilt to my info. He drove it around on pump for some time.

Using 65 accessories and all that.

By lighter I mean no efi crap, or harnesses or anything not needed. I dont mean to refer to the motors themselves........my fault for not clarifying.

The heads are not 3rd gen carb heads, but the heads which came on the 305 TBI.......whats that LO3? Which from my research are crap without porting and work. If I am wrong, please educate me lol. New to this. Im familiar with efi, hondas, and supercharged cobalts....lol

bonylad

The 283 is complete.......literally just pulled out and thats all. I will need a flywheel though. What do you recommend? It will be bolted to the T5 the car had.

Because if I read that correctly, a 283 starter will fit the motor, but the flywheel that will fit wont work in the T5 bellhousing...........

Whew!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The LO3 heads do okay if the valve lift is kept below .450 and RPMs under 5000. And, they have hardened valves and seats, and your accessories will mount to them (even on a 283).

Understand you don't have the 3rd gen carb heads, but they are easy enough to find cheap. And, an improvement over both the LO3 heads, and the Power Pack heads.

The '65 may have been driven around on unleaded gas, but you do that regularly, and the valves will start sinking into the seats, and/or burning. Unless they've been upgraded to hardened.

Oh, yeah, the Power Pack heads don't have the port for the temp gauge sender, either.

The EFI stuff may weigh 15 pounds. Switching from a cast iron intake to aluminum will save more than that. Or switching from cast iron exhaust manifolds to headers.

You might be able to have the proper starter mount bolt hole drilled and tapped. It also needs to have the top of the threads reamed for the knurled portion of the starter bolt to fit into. That locates the starter properly to the block. If you trust your skills in that department, you might be able to do it. Better left to a machine shop, though, and they may not be happy trying to do it on an assembled engine. And, you'll need to get a flywheel for an '83-'85 3rd gen T5 application, as your '92 flywheel won't fit on the 283 crank.

Using the '65 accessories will require some wiring changes. Are you keeping power steering? A '65 power steering pump will probably work, if you have it.

I have to say, I don't recommend this swap. I was handing wrenches to my dad and older brothers in '65, so it's not like I am unfamiliar with that era. I've already listed several issues, and you'll be giving up 22 cubic inches pulling out the 305. It would make a lot more sense to sell the 283 to somebody looking for a casting-numbers-matching resto project and use the proceeds to either get a 350, or upgrade your 305. 260 HP out of an LO3 with heads, cam, and exhaust upgrades, and tuning, would yield a much better end product. Half the people looking under your hood couldn't tell the difference between a 305 and 283 (putting 283 decals on it would suffice there), and the other half wouldn't care. And, I'm betting you'd be disappointed with the results after going through all the work and expense it would take to get it installed.

But, it's your car, your $'s, and your time, so the decision is yours.

bonylad

Good points, and I do appreciate the honest input. Its a swap of convenience really. We have the motor, we have pretty much all thats necessary to make the swap work. Its more of an old school build and as a matter of opinion the 283 would work better.

Thanks for the lead on the flywheel, and as far as I am aware it has hardened seats. I dont plan on p/s or a/c so the accessories on the 283 should be fine. We will figure out the starter once we get further in, but looks like you pointed us in the correct direction. Thank you for that.

As I said, we have all the parts but a flywheel and a starter.........my father wants to do it with me....and thats all the reason I need. Could I get more with the 305? Sure. Could I get more outta the 283? Sure. Will I enjoy wrenching with my dad doin what hes familiar with and learning a thing or two from my old man.......you bet your wrench I will.

Please keep the input coming! Thanks five7kid!

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Keep in mind also, that you'll need to find a manual steering box if you're not using power steering. As our cars were designed with power steering, it'll be much harder to steer "unpowered" than if you can find a manual steering box.

bonylad

Good point sir. I had planned to loop it at the rack....Ive driven cars without p/s and wont be an issue.


Need a workout anyways.

bonylad

One point too give out to the community for input......according to my research the 92 camaro rs 305 t5 has a 168 tooth fly and the 283 starter is a 168 tooth unit. So my real problem is bolting the 283 starter in?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, I'm afraid your sources are incorrect. All 3rd gen V8's used 153-tooth flywheels (or flexplates).

I'm moving this to the Engine Swap forum. Although you started with a carb question, it's morphed into an engine swap topic.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As long as you understand what you're up against going in.

Since unleaded fuel started 10 years after it was built, and leaded fuel disappeared about 5 years later, and it's highly unlikely the '65 heads would not need rebuilding in 45 years, hardened seats and valves very well could have been installed.

Not going to argue with that, since I haven't been able to do that for about 14 years. I got my '82 the week after my dad passed away.

Again, as long as you understand what you're up against, have at it.

And, enjoy the workout with that small steering wheel and no PS...

bonylad

I was just thinking the same thing about the whole started with a carb and here we are now.....thanks!

bonylad

Sorry about your father sir, We worked together on my dads motor swap on his 65 and I loved it. Cant wait to work on this and call it my own.......maybe one day do a motor swap with my son (though hes 3.......might be a while).

I will rely on your input. Looks like you got here from someplace......lol. Thanks for the input on the parts. I found a flywheel like you spoke of, off a 84 305 t5 from advanceauto....from a l69 option.....16-17 lbs and 153 teeth. I spoke with my father and he said he was aware it would need a different flywheel as the RS fly is worn out and has already been resurfaced, and yes the heads do have hardened seats.

Thanks again for your help in this sir. I will try to take some pics of the car. I think I may actually start a build thread and link back to this.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, The University of TGO...

Seriously, I've learned more useful car information from my 13 years on this forum than I had in the preceding 45 years, including 6 years working as a mechanic with the training that accompanied it, and a college degree in mechanical engineering (although the engineering stuff has helped the understanding of many of the principles).

Happy to help (even if what I say isn't always what you wanted to hear). Keep us posted.

1gary

Anytime 57 gives advise,he just puts a smile on my face.He is just so dead on.You stick with your gut no matter who says what.And at 65 yrs old to see a son/father build,that time you can never replace.

I'll be in the cheap seats cheering you and your Dad on.

bonylad

Thanks 1gary! Should be starting to get pics and updates starting after May 1st. My father is retiring from the local police department and will have lots of free time!

bonylad

Well. Keepin the 305, and doin heads-cam-and so on. So close this?