New here bought a 89 firebird formula with the ws6 and a 305 tpi. Engine has a bad knock. I want to put a 350 in it but am lost at with one I can get and use my tpi efi on. I am also looking at new just don't trust a rebuild but don't know much about the hole thing on matching heads and cams. I would like about 300 hp and 350 torque any links and any sites to get a block from and what am I looking at money wise at the whole process. Thanks for any help.

 

For all new parts youre looking around $5000 at the very LEAST, not to mention the time put into it. It sounds like you arent very familiar with engine components and how the relate to each other, so your best bet (at least for now) is to figure out the kncoking problem and just start with basic bolt-ons, then work your way up.

 

What would be a good price range with a reman 350 and how do I get info on matching heads and cams so I can get the best bang for my money. Would any block work or are there limits to match my tpi system? Thanks

 

Any 350 block will work (make sure its a 1 piece rear main seal), and price depends on what your plans and budget are. Are you going to rebuild the bottom end? (crank, rods, pistons) or find a low mileage used shortblock? Then with heads and cam, are you going to use GM used heads? or brand new aftermarket heads? Also if you plan on making a lot of power you'll need to either port out your stock TPI or go with an aftermarket manifold (edelbrock sells decent priced ones).

Prices of NEW aftermarket parts:

$1000 for rotating assembly (crank, rods,pistons)

$900-1500 for heads, higher price usually means higher quality

$300 for a cam and new lifters

$200-300 for a new intake manifold

plus other things like gaskets, bolts, timing set, distributor you'll be a couple thousand dollars in.

If youre on a budget, i personally would buy a used 350, keep the stock short block, pick up some jegs brand heads, maybe an LT1 cam or any decent off-the-shelf cam, and have some port work done on the TPI (I've never worked with any TPI setups so i cant give you too many opinions on that). That'll give you some good performance-to-dollar ratio.

Is this just a street car? or going to be a race car?

 

If you're not familiar with engine building and parts matching, your best bet will be to buy a crate motor and call it a day. Then you don't have to worry about matching the heads, cam, etc. There are plenty of options out there for crate motors that will work with TPI. A ZZ4 long block, or even a Vortec based crate motor will work great. In fact, SDPC offers a Vortec TPI motor that comes with the unique intake manifold, though I think you could do better for the same/less money with other options:
https://sdparts.com/index.php?q=deta...nter/sd360vtpi

 

Thanks I have some thinking to do, trying to get a budget to see how much and how long it will take to get everything done. Any other links to a zz4 long block at a good price would be great. Thanks again.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=zz4+crate+engine

 

Yup, Jim is right about a crate engine. You'll also find that the crate engines are cheaper than buying all the individual parts.

 

How do I go about a rebuilt if I find a shop local what should I look for on the engine to tell I they have done a good job and have used quality parts.

 

You ask them what parts they used and asked for the specs. You can't tell if it was built with quality just because its shiny. They also arent going to just build an engine for you, they will ask you what parts YOU want, then they just build it. They can give recommendations but you need to do your research first.

 

Now Jim,you know the quality of "crate" engines across the board has gone down the pooper.............

 

Not sure I follow?

 

1gary should give this guy a quote.

 

John-I'm booked solid.But I am very sure we could talk him through him building one himself.

 

Thanks guys for the info I was thinking of getting a trick flow head and cam combo I believe it is the super 23. I also plan to get a new intake and runners for the tpi system. Am I looking for any issue with this setup on a regular 350 lower half? I have a limited budget and it is going fast.

 

I bought a pair of trickflow super 23's a couple weeks ago, the engine is still being built so i cant give you my opinion performance wise, but physically they are a good quality piece, and only weigh 30 pounds each

 

Since it sounds like you're looking for a quick way to build up an engine - I would start with asking the local machine shop what it would cost to build you a late model 'flat top' engine short block (similar to this one http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hp...make/chevrolet - the details say flat top pistons, the specs say domed so who knows - but it gives a price point for something with a warranty...)

The local shops here would take a 1-pc rear main block / roller cam core engine, machine it (clean, bore/hone, grind/polish crank, etc.) then install hypereutectic flat-top pistons on the stock re-worked rods and assemble it with new bearings, freeze plugs and sell them for about $700-800 for slightly warmed over stock builds which is what it sounds like you want to do - they use pistons that are stock weight so they don't have to re-balance everything. I've helped friends put them together for projects and have used one in an old pickup and they're fine and about as durable as a stock engine would expect to be (which essentially is what it is with about 1 point more compression...)

Use that, bolt on the kit you're looking at (which I assume is cam/heads/intake?) and burn a PROM to match and you'll meet your goal (300hp/350ft-lb) pretty easily.

 

Where you located?
My hubby does this type of stuff on the side- has been doing them now for 20 years. He's in the process of building a 350 for a friend of ours- rebuilt the 305 for our 89 last year.

A bad knock could be a variety of things- something simple, or something pricey.

 

FYI:Standard re-builder pistons,for the lack of a better term, have pin heights for performance that suck.

 

That's so true - most set the pin up to move the piston down .020" on the hole - that's why choosing your engine builder is important so they order the right pistons for performance applications vs just a "stock" application...

If your engine builder just builds stock engines and wants to use the generic cast flat top pistons from a cheap rebuild kit then just walk away as they are really not for performance applications...

 

what is a "performance" pin height?

 

One that doesn't move the piston "down" in the bore to increase the deck clearance or reduce the compression to account for decking the block or heads excessively...

Pin height determines where the top of the piston is in relationship to the top deck of the block (called deck height) - move the piston "up" in the bore and you get towards "zero" deck height or can even go negative deck height if it sticks above the deck - that increases compression due to a smaller volume left at TDC vs BDC.

SOOOO - Compression height = block deck height - rod length - (0.5 X crank stroke)

stock SBC 350 deck height is 9.025" (centerline of crank to top of deck), Stock 350 crank is 3.480" stroke, stock rod is 5.700"
Calculating - 9.025 - 5.700 - (.5*3.480) = 1.585 - or if the pin was centered in the bore then the piston would be .025" below the deck with a stock 1.560" piston pin height.

The common 'performance' pistons are using the stock height of 1.560" pin height, generic 'rebuilder' pistons are about 1.540" pin height.

If you're going to run a "stock" crank/rod/piston/head rule class then have the crank offset ground to add .020-.030 to the stroke and still run common undersized bearings and it'll bump the compression up and build a little more power - especially when combined with surfacing the block and heads within the rule's limits...

Edit - I remember back in the real late 80's/early 90's they used to sell in the magazines 13:1 pistons that guys would run and brag they had a 13:1 race engine in their street car - but when you looked at them they would only give 13:1 with a 0 deck height, a steel shim gasket of .019-.020 compressed thickness and a 62cc head - most of them had them about .025-030 in the hole, .042-.045 head gasket and 76cc heads that if they were ported they de-shrouded the valve and added 1-2 cc to that 76cc number and came out with a 'real' 9.5-9.75:1 engine... I used to be able to build a 'real' 10.5:1 engine and walk away from them all the time with my "low compression" engine...

 

my thing is, pin height can vary widely depending on what you build the engine for. you cant exactly say "performance pin height". you might have a long rod n/a engine with the pin high in the piston, or you might have a nitrous engine with the pin low in the piston.

as for the issue at hand, i would suggest finding a good late model shortblock and popping it in there. maybe freshen it up first with new rings/bearings. i wouldnt buy any aftermarket parts for it other than maybe head bolts.

 

DIGGLER - I think 1gary was just warning the guy about the reduced piston height stuff that's out there in the 'generic' rebuilds...

In general we're saying the same thing - choose the right part for the right job...