I have a 468 bbc that I am going to install in my 91 Camaro. Short deck with stock intake ports. I plan to use an aftermarket K-member and would like to use a manual rack. My concern is that there will not be enough room to route the steering shaft around the headers. Has anyone made this swap? If so, which headers did you use? I'm leaning towards lemons or possibly having a custom set built. Any tips on how to route the steering shaft?

Thanks for the input.

 

Depends on exactly how the headers fit. I have Ed Quay headers. 2-1/4" primaries with 4" collectors. I still use a manual steering box because there's no way to run a steering shaft to a rack system without multiple angles or relocating the shaft on the firewall to go under the headers.

Even with my large tube headers, I had to relocate the steering shaft slightly. It's moved upward and away from the engine to clear a header tube. With a drag car, this isn't a big issue but this sort of fabrication work in a street car takes a lot more work.

The Hooker swap headers will work however they're not good for much over a 454 in a street car. With 1-7/8" primary tubes and 3" collectors, they're very restrictive for bigger or high reving engines.

If you want to run a rack system and large header tubes, the best fitting headers will be a custom built set. The downside is the cost. Buying all the parts to build a custom set isn't that much. www.headersbyed.com has some good kits. You will make mistakes and changes so extra parts will be needed. By the time your headers are done, don't be surprised if they cost over $1000 to make. If you're paying someone to make them, it will be even more.

 

Thanks Alky. I thought you might chime in.

I have seen where a few members have used a heim joint to allow for use of multiple angles on the steering shaft. Just wanted to see if any one had successfully done this with a bbc swap.

Do you use a Vega box or an S-10 box? I had considered using the ed quay Vega box but wanted to research the manual rack option before making a decision. Also, i noticed on your website that you said you moved the motor mounting location. Did this play any part in you needing to move the steering column?

 

S10 box. It's a direct bolt in as long as you use the late model box with 4 bolts on the top cover. The 3 bolt early box is more similar to a vega box and has a smaller input and output shaft size making the swap a little more difficult.

To use a multiple u-joint steering shaft, each intermediate shaft needs a support of some sort, usually using heim joints. My engine is relocated back a few inches plus sits a little lower and I use front and rear motor plates. To use a rack, the rack's input shaft would almost be pointing straight up but angled back slightly. It's possible to do but not really worth the extra effort required to do it. My manual steering box works just fine. The positioning of the engine lower actually helped the steering shaft clear one of the big header tubes. If my header tubes weren't so big, the stock shaft location would still work.

Big heads, raised exhaust ports and large tube headers will always cause clearance issues.

 

I have it at Ed quay headers as well and the rack and Pinion all we have to do was move one of the header tubes to fit but with all the problems I had with my quay headers I would not buy them again. Mine are also 2 1/4 primaries with a 4 inch collector. I would really look at the lemons when I talk to lemon he stated that they could make the header work with the steering shaft as long as they sent us some pictures.

The lemons are expensive about $1500 for the base headers plus any addition should you want to put on. Quay headers cost me $850 and then I had to spend another $700 to modify them so they would actually fit the car. Also lemon headers are made from stainless steel and Quay are just mild steel headers so you have to paint or coat them the lemons you don't have to touch

If you need to see some pictures of the rack and Pinion and how the shaft runs just do a search under my username there's a whole thread on it

 

Stainless headers are nice. I had stainless Edelbrock headers on my 454SS truck. 10+ years later and they turned brown but never rusted out like a mild steel header.

The headers on my car have coated tubes. Well worth the investment. My slip on collectors are untreated and are still fine. The collectors don't get the same heat as the tubes.

 

Alky, did you have to use a remote oil filter with your quay headers like I did

 

No. With my old Big M block, the System 1 filter was on the block and the accumulator went to a port beside the filter. My new Big M block didn't have that port so it was easier to install a remote filter and plumb the accumulator into it.

Fitment issues were only on the passenger side header if you don't consider the steering shaft. I dimpled one tube slightly to fit under a starter bolt (starter can't be removed without taking off or loosening a couple of tubes. I have another tube heavily dimpled to clear part of the tubular crossmember. The engine relocation didn't help.

My header flanges are all cut so each tube is separate. If the car sits high enough on stands, I can get the drivers side header in as a single piece from underneath but the passenger side header goes on like a jigsaw puzzle, one tube at a time. Once all the tubes are in place and held on loosely with the flange bolts, I install the slip on collector and tighten up the flange bolts. I have the older style Ed Quay headers with the passenger side #6 cylinder loop over the frame rail. The later versions go under the frame rail.

I'd like to buy some new flanges and a selection of J and U bends to make a new set that would clear any obstruction. Since each car is a little different, off the shelf headers will always have issues. Shagwell has a blower car so header design isn't as critical but I'd like to do like he did and have all the tubes go over the frame rail and exit through the fender behind the front wheel. I run an exhaust system with race mufflers. I doubt I could use my mufflers like that. I like my muffled exhaust. It allows me to hear the car. Without mufflers, I need to wear ear plugs or my ears ring after a day of racing. My exhaust system adds about 50 pounds to the car and doesn't restrict performance at all.

 

My headers are the same, can't get at starter without removing headers, when I first got them you could not have a starter in with the headers, both my flanges are solid, with the tube going under the frame it brings the collector awful close to the ground

 

572, I found the pictures of your set up. Very nice btw. But I did not see any pictures that show the linkage and how it's routed. Would you mind taking a pic and posting?

My preference is to use SS. I would imagine that Lemons has run into and addressed this issue at some point. I'll give them a call and see what they say.

 

Here are some pictures, everything is so crowded in there it is hard to see, steering shaft goes down behind number 5 cylinder ( 3rd cylinder on driver's side) and passes under motor mount bracket. I bought my steering shaft complete from PA Racing. Next time the car is up in the air, I will get some picture from under the car

 

The problems with third gens and a BBC is that there's very little room between the block and the frame rails to do proper equal length big tube headers. Lemons gets around this by having tubes go over the frame so they're not all squeezed into a small space. This means you need to cut holes in the inner fenders for them to join back up under the car. To make our cars even worse, the frame rails taper inward behind the engine which makes even less room.

 

I went digging through all my pics to see what I have since not all my pics are on my web pages. These are old but you get the idea of how much clearance there is. I use a converted Astro van steering shaft because the u-joints are small compared to the third gen steering shaft couplers.

 

I know this is a little dark, but hopefully you can see the shaft

 

My 2 3/8th Quay headers fit great. Just had to use a GM short oil filter. I also used a one heim joint for my steering shaft.