Hey Guys!
I have an 84 Camaro z28 with a carb 305 that is starting to go bad and I'm looking to do an engine swap over the winter. It has a 700R4 with a shift kit, 3.73 posi rear end and a disk brake conversion kit.

The question I have is whether to keep it a carbureted sbc, or convert it to a LS (Probably LS1, but it depends on what I can find).

Originally, I was just going to keep it simple and install a crate 350, but the more I learn about the LS engines and how affordable they're becoming, I'm starting to wonder if it would be worth the extra effort.

I have a budget of about $3000 and I'm hoping to be making around 300 hp / 350 ft lbs torque after the swap, but will be looking for higher numbers in the future when I can afford to upgrade more of the drive train. I do plan on driving the car quite a bit in the summer, so drivability is still important.

I know this subject's been beaten to death, and I do have a pretty good understanding about what is involved in going the LS route, but with it being my first engine swap, I don't want to bite off more than I can chew, so that's why I'm asking for your guy's opinions.
Thanks!

 

The LS engine may be getting more "affordable", but the rest of the parts will nickel and dime your budget to death: motor mounts, exhaust/fab, transmission, coolant, computer, wiring, accessories, air filter, etc.

Keeping the SBC will be the most straight forward swap you can do. Get an L31 crate, LT4 HOT cam, or equivalent, valve springs, vortec intake for the carb ($140 for Professional Products or $216 for Edelbrock...cheaper than the TPI base), and you'll have some left over for gaskets and tuning the carb.

This will give you a brand new engine (more power than the LG4) WITH a performance upgrade (cam and springs) and actually have a chance to stay within your budget.

 

 

I'd go the LS route.

Get you a 5.3 pullout from a truck, with ECM & harness. Around $750 most places. Prolly cheeeeeper than that up where you are, where the bodies dissolve in the winter and leave good motors inside an utterly wasted useless rust bucket chassis BY THE THOUSANDS.

Kinda doubt motor mounts and exhaust are gonna use up yer other $2250.

In 2015, as good as the SBC is/has been, time has come to move on.

 

yes, I completely agree. The SBC is a great motor, but its simply outdated. LS based motors are newer, can be had for virtually nothing nad in great condition. The biggest hassle is converting to the different system.

 

The only reason i say go with an LS is because i went from a 305 to 350 and finally to a 400 sbc in my camaro and i still regret not saving my money on those engine builds and just doing an LS swap. never got the power out of that 400 i was hoping for. but will all the time and money i spent on those two engines i could have built a killer LS motor. in the long run you will be more happy with the LS. it will be a lot of time work to do it but you will be glad you did it in the end and people will be impressed when you tell them your old third camaro has an LS power plant under the hood.

 

I come from carb'd 350s, wanted TPI, tried an LT1, then discovered the 4.,8L LSx in a rented UHaul pickup. I bought a pair of used '01 4.8s, under $400 each, complete, but I haven't yet gotten either one running, and I sold the one I didn't take apart. The other got diverted to my S-10.
The best advantage of the LSx family is that all the external emissions bits are available, and don't have the complexity of the TPI or the ZZ3. Either of those can still be done, but not as cleanly or easily, and if it has to be Cali-correct, then the LSx may well prove cheaper as far as the emissions parts go. Just choose a cam that has at least 6 degrees of anti-overlap at 0.050" and it'll run clean with good cats.

 

Lt1


Good on gas and way cheaper than LS. Yes they are getting cheap, but if you get one from a truck you need new oil pan, intake, motor mounts, exhaust.
LT1 keeps SBC motor mounts, exhaust, and you can use any oil pan from a caprice/corvette/camaro

 

true

 

Thanks for the responses!
I know there advantages going the LS route, but I'm not sure if I'm completely sold, just because of how easy a 350 sbc swap would be, and then I would have a brand new engine....

But if I did go with the LS, what should I expect to upgrade / change? I know I'd need motor mounts, exhaust, proper oil pan, and I figured for the fuel system that a 4th gen fuel tank might be the easiest? If I remove the A/C compressor, would I still need to notch the K member?
What I'm unsure about is the wiring/PCM, transmission / trans cross member / drive shaft and tuning. I plan on installing new gauges when I do the swap so adapting the original gauges shouldn't be an issue.

 

No need to change the tank, any 255-LPH pump that fits your stock pump will be more than adequate to 500 HP. The driveshaft you already have will work with T5, T56, and 4L60E. 4L60E can use the same crossmember as 700R-4.

 

Dont forget about tuning with an ls. You dont just get to pop the hood and adjust it and go.

 

If you decide to go LS, spend your $3000 buying a donor 4th gen. Finance the swap-specific pieces you need by selling off what you don't use. You don't need to notch the K-member if you don't use AC. Exhaust is the biggest LS swap expense (beyond the engine) if you can't fabricate it yourself.

Or, you can meet the 300 HP goal by building a 350 SBC, using your existing q-jet (assuming that's what you still have), upgrading exhaust (assuming it isn't upgraded already).

 

This. I reserched alot before building my motor. Stock v stock gen 1 has no leg to stand on. But thats where it ends. The gen 1 aftermarket heads can and will keep up with the ls stuff. Ls swaps are great but personally I dont like the way they look under the hood. The small nickle and dime pieces to get the swap done will make the swap price go up. Things to think about:
Even at $500 for a ls yard motor ( have yet to see them around here for that price, ever) do you really want to put a high miliage motor in your car when you can get a new l31? Most of the yard ls motors around here are 100000 plus pieces. That needs to be thought about. Every motor has issues over the long term, dont think the ls is any different. If you go by what you read you can get a ls for 500 and put a cam in it and get 500hp or a turbo and make a 1000hp. Gen 1 stuff is so cheap now, prob the cheapest its ever been. Its easy to work on and there are literally thousand upon thousands of combos you can copy. Some say its light years ahead of the sbc, ya I agree, stock your year motor vs newer ls. But new latest 23°heads vs ls not so much. You can get a new 350 gm crate engine for about 1400. Change the heads and cam and be below the 3000 mark by quite a bit. Will make over 300 easy.Just because its old tech doesnt mean its dead.

 

Thanks for the help! I think for right now I'm going to stick with a SBC (and start saving / collecting parts for a LS swap in the future), but I'm not quite sure what route I should go from here.
I've heard West Coast Engines is pretty good ( http://www.westcoastengines.com/#!ch...-stage-2/c1x2k ) and with their crate engine I would be at my goal for power and still be able to keep it in budget.

But if I did get the a Vortec engine and do a cam swap like MoJoe suggested, I would have a brand new engine within my goal, and still have room to make even more power in the future with just a few mods. How difficult is it to get the HOT cam to work with the vortec heads? I do like this option, I just don't have any experience with cam swaps so I'm not quite sure.

 

I see they compare their motors to blueprint engines. I had a friend that has an ongoing horror show with blueprint engines. Basically that warranty doesnt mean squat. For these guys prices Id be looking at the stage 2 383 or stage 3 350. Seems to come complete carb and all. Never heard of these guys though.

 

Search on vortec heads, there are quite a few threads. Some discuss doing it without machine work. I went with pulling the heads, machining the guides and for screw-in studs.

 

For your first swap i would buy a crate motor or buy a used 350 and have a machine shop bore it out to a 383. super easy to swap because everything is the same set up, you can use all your old parts and if you want fuel injection holley and other manufactures make some decent stand alone units. Also so many people a swapping LS motors that they are creating a bubble in the prices here in socal a 5.3 with 100k is going for 700-1000 and a ls1 is well over 1.5k for that price i would rather have a brand new sbc than a used ls.

 

If you're considering doing a Vortec motor, I would suggest buying a shortblock somewhere and buying your own heads. The EQ CH350C (unassembled) or CH350CA (Assembled) heads are a great bang for your buck. They don't need any additional machining, retain all the great aspects about the Vortec heads, and are very budget friendly.

 

My advice... might be to stick with sbc. Here are my reasons. I am doing an LS swap but you are in a similar situation as me. ( I have a 1985)

1st... people forget on earlier 3rd gen it takes a little more to get it fuel injected ready from a mechanical pump.
2nd.... there are little things like cooling fans.
3rd... accessory setup
These are just a few things someone with an tpi car doesn't think of when suggesting an LS swap. It can be a quick extra $500-750

I wanted fuel injection and was going to go with an aftermarket setup, I also wanted electric fans and ls1 brakes. Stuff I was going to piece together from junkyards, I was thinking of just getting a 4th gen tank and fuel pump system.

While doing all of this I came acrossed a running driving t56 Ls1 car that was totaled. I liked the idea of being able to feel and hear it run. I also have goodies I can sell off of the car to recoup some money while getting all the toys I wanted.

I also do alot of aircraft wiring for a living so I am not intimidated by making a harness and I have a Donor car with everything I need I won't be hunting for relay boxes to get AC, fuel pump, fans, etc... to work. I know this was a huge challenge for some.

 

Im all for LS conversions, but there isnt the budget for it esp if this is your first rodeo

Vortec 350 is hard to beat

 

I have a good running vortec TPI 350 - I'm not unhappy with it at all, but at the same time it's not an LS motor - does not run anywhere near what a LS1 does on top(end). It is still a lot of time and $$ to get the SBC tuned and running right. If I didn't live in California I would have put all that effort into a LS all day long. TPI SBC's make great torque , and run really good stoplight to stoplight. But in wide open situations a built LS will clean it's clock. TPI always runs out of steam just when you really get going. a carbed vortec is not that much faster at all. If smog is not a consideration there is no good reason not to find a 6.0 truck motor and take the time to build it up and go that route. I see where the other parts needed will nickel and dime,(need other parts to make it live - trans, rear end etc..) but you will end up with a true contender against all comers when done properly( you get rewarded with HP for your effort). just do your homework before you cut/buy. (I own a 2K ss/t56 for comparison)