K3000

Years ago, I had traced this all out in the shop manual and it looked to me like the computer and harness were the same and that there's just a prom change.

I have a 1991 TA with 167k and a BEAT VIN F motor and trans, they both need major work. The car has T-Tops and a posi rear.

I see locally here in PA a 1988 Firebird Formula, VIN 8 motor, no T-Tops, with 100k on it.

I was going to question the seller if the trans was ever rebuilt on it, and also drive the car of course.

He's asking $5000 obo for the car, and it does look really clean except for some peeling GM paint.

Would it be a good move to buy it and drive it for a while, and if all is well I could maybe have someone swap the motor and trans in to the Trans-Am with the T-Tops?

Is there anything else different besides the proms between those two cars?

Is $4500 too much for that with that mileage? I figure I could part out the rest of the car too after the swap.

Typically how long does the VIN 8 engine last before it needs a rebuild? I'm thinking the VIN F is a two bolt main and they tend to only make it to like 150-160k, while the VIN 8 is a four bolt main and lasts a little longer?

Thoughts? (And thank you!)

Lee

ironwill

IMO, your plan is not economically feasible; paying a repair shop big $$$ (and it's going to be big) to swap another high-mileage engine/trans for yours is just a bag of snakes. If you're intent on putting that much money into the car, have a rebuilt or crate engine & trans installed; don't swap worn-out for worn-out.


Don't be swayed by hot rod magazine articles touting 100k-mile junkyard LS engines producing big horsepower numbers; that's not what you're dealing with here. Metallurgy, engine technology, and manufacturing practices have come a long way since those 30-year-old small blocks were built.

K3000

Thank you for responding and for the reality check.

I don't understand why there seems like there's so few of these cars around for sale? Where are all of them? I guess I just don't realize these cars are 30 years old now. Maybe a lot of them are junk by now?

Where would you get a stock-ish Chevy crate engine? From GM? And how about the crate trans?

Any ideas how to find a good shop in PA that's both competent with the F body and not an absolute fortune to use?

That's a VERY good point how much technology has advanced in 30 years, had not considered that.

I'm still amazed how ahead of it's time and unique the 82-92 body design was. You can still park this car next to anything new and it keeps up with them looks wise, IMO

The only thing that's better now exterior wise is the headlight and tail light systems...

ironwill

Thirty years is a LONG time when referring to a car's life. Other than the few 3rd gens that became immediate garage queens when first bought new, most have met the crusher; those that didn't get outright scrapped have long since been disassembled and parted-out at wrecking yards. That's especially true for those in the Rust Belt.

Any GM dealer parts department can order engines and transmissions, but a more economical approach would be to check out Jegs or Summit on the internet. Scoggin-Dickey in Texas sells a lot of engines/trans also.


You're on your own with this unless other forum members living in your area have suggestions. Offhand, I couldn't even recommend a shop in my own city.


As only one of many examples, when I compare my 86 IROC to a 2019 ZL1/1LE, it's like comparing a biplane to an F15. Just one look at the underside of the ZL1 shows the night-and-day differences in technology, manufacturing, and materials used in construction. And then there is the spec sheet...................

K3000

Thanks very much for the thoughtful answers, I appreciate it.

By far, with the exception of the black and gold 1982 Trans-Am, I like 87-92 much better in the Firebird line, I especially like the 88-92 Formula 350's and the 91-92 Trans-Ams.

I didn't care for the spoiler on the 87-90's that's made of vinyl with a foam core. It's not meant to be painted so of course GM painted it to match the car. lol

A look at the production numbers reveals how few of the 91-92 Formula's and Trans-Ams were made, I forgot about that.

It may be best to stick with my 91 TA and work with that. It's been in the garage since it stopped running around 2010.

And also the HP output on even the VIN 8 is pitiful, but at least better than the FIN F. I think you might have mentioned how many newer cars even with 6 cylinder engines are faster. Sad.

I appreciate your input, choosing to avoid the dealer, I might look in to those other options, I'm familiar with Summit and saw most of the others in an online search but I didn't know how repudable any of them were.

ironwill

My wife's new Honda CRV, with a 1.5 liter turbocharged/DI engine, produces the same horsepower as my stock IROC, and would probably beat it in a quarter mile.

But that's not the entire story for those of us who own 3rd gens, especially ones we bought new, have owned for 33 years, and are still driven regularly in good weather. They're a piece of automotive history, and hark back to a period when Detroit was just beginning to struggle out from under the highly restrictive smog regulations that strangled performance in the early '70s up until the mid-'80s. There's something to be said for preserving these cars and what they represent.


I was a Jegs customer since back in 1965, buying parts for a number of drag cars at the original small storefront on 11th Ave in Columbus; Jeg himself worked the counter back then. I've been buying stuff from Jegs online ever since, and have never had any issue with any purchase. I've bought occasional items from Summit with the same success.

I've never purchased anything from Scoggin-Dickey, but can only say they've been in the GM performance parts business for years, and I wouldn't hesitate to order from them.



GL with however you decide to proceed.

K3000

We're very much on the same page! It's been killing me seeing my T/A just sit. There's a lot of history in that car.

Will have to mull over the options.

Thank you!

ArtB

I too am impressed with what GM built into these L98 / VIN8 drivelines. I'm swapping one into a Gbody now. (Yknow, the car the General should have built) The electric speedometer will be interesting.