I have a 1992 camaro RS with a 305 just wanted to know the price difference between building 400-500 hp 383 Anna 400-500 hp 454 and a 400-500 hp 5.3ls

And What’s the difficulty of the actual swap in between all three of those motors the 383 SBC and the 454BBC and the 5.3 LS

 

Any swap costs money, and its always in the things you least expect but are just as important to the build. Suspension, brake upgrades, exhaust, etc. You'll need all those for either swap. Any small block will physically bolt in easier than the other two as it is the same architecture as your 305. You can reuse your accessories and also any header combo for the 305 will work with the 383 (for the most part, excluding D shaped heads, etc). I won't comment on the 454 only that there are many swaps on this site that you can read up on. They have their own challenges dealing with fitment, weight, exhaust options. The 5.3 is unique in that it follows the same recipe as any other LS swap. You'll need wiring, mounts, accessories, yadda yadda. You need to sit down and figure out what you really want. What power level do you want? Is the rest of your car up to snuff or is everything clapped out only to be dangerously exposed by more power. Each of these options has costs involved, and like all swaps the financial range is massive. I would spend some time and read, read some more, and then reread various swaps on each of these motors. It will start to give you an idea of what you are getting into and you can then compare that to you goals, skill set and ultimately your budget. As for now, your quest is too vague to give you an answer. Meaning, some folks do $2k LS swaps and others do $80k LS swaps. Same for the other two power mills in your list.

 

How you use the car is a big factor on which engine.

Auto or manual trans?
55 mph or 70 mph cruising?
Normal suspension, drag, or cornering?

 

Manual trans, and if anything probably drag suspension and maybe cruising at 70
it would be more of a weekend toy that I can also have some fun at the drag strip occasionally

 

Who's doing the work and what's the budget?

 

383 likely most expensive.

454 bb you might find a good late model vortec that can make 400-450 with just a cam and intake swap. Just clean it up, refresh heads and bearings.

5.3 will need a big cam to get there. It would be abit rowdy but doable. Not sure how cheap that will be compared to the bbc. Ls swap is easier as more swap parts are available

 

A sbc 400 would probably be cheaper than a 383. You wouldn't have to buy a crank or rods. With a cam & heads you could easily approach 500 hp. And it's a direct swap. You have to decide how much money do you want to throw at it.

 

me and my friend who is a performance builder and I’d say the budget, maybe 4-5 k

 

is it true you have to delete to a/c if u do a 454 cause of fitment, and work to the tranny tunnel

 

that i do not know. Trans tunnel is fine however its nice to cut holes in the firewall to access the bolts and pull carpet back to get at them, if you dont install motor and trans together at same time. Which I don’t

 

Is that just the engine, or total for the whole car build?

 

Sounds to me like you need a LQ9 or LS2 pullout including ECM & harness, with a cam swap, converter, & and tune. Even given the LS swap costs, it'll be HELLA CHEEEEEPER than trying to get that kind of power out of an old skool SBC, and not have to work on it and spend money on it all the time.

Since there's essentially ZERO aftermarket support for the later 8.1 I'd recommend not even attempting to go down that road.

You'll spend $4 - 5k just in a suitable survivable manual transmission setup if you don't already have it. No way in hell you're doing a whole motor swap PLUS a stick transmission that'll survive any significant abuse for that piddly drop in the bucket. Get real.

 

If 4-500 hp is the goal, why not just build a regular 350? It's been done a million times.

 

Is it 400 or 500 HP?
There's a big difference in what it takes between one and the other. At least from the view of having it stay together.
Easiest route to 500 is with the most CID in NA trim. So that would be the 454.
400 HP on the other hand can happen accidentally so between the three options, it's pretty much a wash as far as achieving the goal goes.
So which is it?
When discussing budget, with 4-5k is on the table, then it looks to be a junkyard build. That's not meant to be disrespectful in any way. It's just that the cost of entry is less. What you can find may be a matter of luck.
The swap itself?
Cheapest is the 383. Most of what you have for the 305 should carry over.
As for the BBC, if I recall correctly, engine mounts were factory parts. As was the transmission crossmember. Headers were a PITA though. We opted for a remote oil filter as access after shoehorning that thing in left little room. There were also issues with the wiper motor and valve cover. Very few aftermarket parts needed.
The LS on the other hand requires engine mounts and possibly a transmission crossmember. It depends on whose mounts you use. Headers of course. Fuel pump to support the factory EFI if you go that route and don't already have something in play. The transmission my present some issues too depending on what you have or intend to use.
I think you'll find it's the most expensive of the three to swap in. And probably the greatest level of difficulty.
I've done the BBC swap (albeit nearly twenty years ago so parts availability may have improved). Dozens of SBC's. They're are no brainer. I can't say I've done an LS but I've certainly looked into it.

 

383, You need a block, crank rods pistons, heads intake cam etc lol just to get running

gen 6 bbc is 425 hp with a eddy rpm dual plane and 230/236 hyd roller. Stock bottom and heads. But you need headers…

5.3 is stock everything except cam and lifters, maybe intake but the truck manifolds do well enough. Ls6 intake be ideal. Get a 5.3. Or better yet a 6.0 with ly6 heads but even 317/243’s are great.

 

If the OP is shopping, then he's shopping.

You need an engine to begin with so I'm not sure were your comment comes from. Gen 1, BBC, Gen III or IV all need something to start with.
There are probably a hundred 383 shortblocks out there ready to snap up. One of my friends picked up a GM 383 longblock complete for a few thousand bucks. Bought but never installed by the seller. Rare that's true. But it DID happen.
That's all I'm saying here.
Or a cheap Scat 9000 crank with your junkyard takeout Vortec.
If we're talking used, then there's plenty of usable 350's that'll take that Scat (or cheaper still) crank and work with the rest of the shortblock. No? I'll admit it's not going to be 500 HP though. Now 400 HP is easy enough if you've got the Vortec.
But the installation itself is practically zero dollars depending on what the OP has.

I'm with you on the BBC. Except that it's an ungainly beast that's a tight fit. You know that. So do I. But it's a quick route to a potential 500 HP. The headers are a joke by the way. The Hooker Super Comps take up a lot of real estate under the car.

The LS adds cost with the swap parts. Price it out and it adds up (I know you have). Plus whatever is needed to fit either the OEM bits (fuel system) or if you go carb (more parts like the carb itself and intake) plus you'll still need an ignition controller (more parts). There's a complexity to that too. Not for me necessarily. Or you obviously. But maybe the OP isn't handy at wiring or plumbing. I've no idea.

If the OP is looking for opinions, I'm just laying that out there.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the junkyard takeout. Refresh or otherwise. That said, if you take whatever you find of the three and do a rebuild then those rebuild costs are pretty close. Rings, bearings, seals and gaskets at a minimum anyway.

Now if you want to talk turnkey new, then I'm game for another discussion. I shopped all of this out prior to falling into what I've got waiting right now. FTR, that's 7k (CDN) for a shortblock alone. But it's all new.

 

I edited post as i misread your other post when you said cheap lol swap cost cheap not build cost cheap

i wasnt thinking in terms of buying a used motor. If you go that route you could have a dart blocked used bracket motor that may be 540 inches for a great price lol i got a 588” dart block complete motor in parts not assembled basically for 5500.lol however today’s prices and availability that turns closer to 8000 now

 

Fair enough.
FWIW Orr, I use you as sounding board many times as your experiences far outweigh my own. That said, this swap thing (and it's a matter of public record!) has been on my mind pre-pandemic (stupid covid). At one time the HT383 was a a bargain. Then the LS3 went on sale for something like $7500 CDN. There's a bargain. But after examining the swap costs (at the time) the bargain lost it's lustre.

Anyway, as I said. 400 HP is one thing. 500 quite another. With any luck my little 357 will be halfway between and not kill itself getting there. Something the OP could do as well. And do it on the cheap if wants to. I chose not to.

 

500 out of a SBC 383 is not hard.

 

500 hp out of a SBC is not hard, actually it is easier and cheaper than 500 hp out of a 5.3L.

 

Is that installed or as observed on an engine dyno? This is the cheaper (not easier) part I'm talking about. The installation, from what I've gathered over the years (in a research sense) is what drives the cost up.

So much depends on what you're starting with too. Earlier, I'd mentioned a conversation about all new longblock assemblies and their relative costs. If you go to GM directly, they don't offer a 500 HP SBC. A 500 HP BBC turnkey might be the 502/502 (508 HP). The LS 376/525 (525 HP) or the LS 376/480 (495 HP). A little digging and it looks like the 502 is no longer available. It can probably still be found at some dealer though.
Surfing for turnkey, drop-in 500 HP examples outside of GM performance and there's the following:
BluePrint Engines (not endorsing them just an example) has a 500 HP SBC in 400 CID. Drop in ready (all accessories and carb to pan) for $8800.
They have a fully dressed 502 BBC with 508 HP for $13000. Also drop in ready.
No LS options from them though.
The above are available through Summit.
Summit does carry the LS 376/480 (495 HP) as a fully accessorized drop in for $9700.

That was apples to apples as in brand new from the same vendor ready to go examples.
I could quite probably acquire parts and pieces and build a 500 HP version of each platform but this sort of sets the stage. I've previously had a 502 in an 86 TA. The current 357 is a theoretical 495 HP engine although I've capped the RPM a little so output will be down. The LS3 that we've dropped into the C10 has the hot cam and aftermarket intake and should be 500.
You could go the junkyard takeout route but there are too many variables, I think, to be able to predict what the final running engine costs would be.

 

we are listening…

 

While you've got your ears on, a quick question. And it may be a loaded one: Do you consider intake port CFM as a reasonable estimation of potential engine output?
To carry that thought a little further, given two different engine platforms, let's say a conventional 23° SBC head and an LS head that both flow 250 CFM at x lift. Is the potential there for either or both to make 500 HP (or thereabouts)? All else being equal as in compression ratio and peak HP RPM?

 

cfm can be, but there are many variables

can 250 cfm on different platforms be similar potential? Maybe but likely not in that scenario. Way different port shapes and lengths, different areas. Its not always about bench flow numbers, its port area and shape and velocity profiles. Whats seen on the bench is not what the engine sees necessarily. The shape and velocity profiles could be the difference in one setup making 1.8-2 hp per cfm and one making 2.2-2.3 hp per cfm

 

All of the above is the way I understand as well. I threw that out there as a conversation starter as a lot of folks refer to that particular spec as an engine building stepping stone. Velocity seems to be a key player or more exactly, 250 CFM with a given port volume and MCSA might play better than similar flow numbers with larger ports. (This gives me hope with my own heads).
It's difficult to compare across the platforms for sure. But, and further to the OP's question (who has appeared to have left the building) is what's the easiest / least expensive and adaptable route to 500 HP? Or as I alluded to earlier, with the rather broad gap between 500 HP and 400 HP, what does it take for 400 HP?
FTR, I think a lot of entry level enthusiasts don't really know what 400 HP really feels like. Of course it's not a twin turbo BBC making enough HP to enter orbit but rather what compares to the more pedestrian offerings of the OEMs, which, for what it's worth, is my target. More or less.
Maybe the OP (helloooo?) can relate.

 

Yeah, I agree. Anyone who turns their nose up at 400 hp hasn’t driven that level in these cars IMHO.

My small block has 405 hp and it’s more than enough for this platform. No I’m not drag racing, or even autoXing, just driving around town and hitting up cars & coffee.

 

Glad to hear this since my 400 build should be 500hp.

 

500 is even better.
But further to the OP, that's a choice that has to be made upfront.

 

Hot ticket would be an aluminum 5.3. Cam it for 400 hp and enjoy an extra 100-150 lbs off the car. If you like handling it may even give you closer to 50/50 weight ratio. I think it be fun

then when you get bored, turbo it. The 5.3 aluminum motors are the most desired boost motors it seems

the cammed late model 454 big block would be most torquey and fun but it will add a ton of weight.

 

If you go with aluminum heads and intake it's real close to the weight of a sbc. That was my original plan but because of the issues that go along with the 454 I decided to stay sbc. As long as it's a Chevy you will be good.

 

That's what made the LS3 so enticing.
AND it was on sale complete for $7500 CDN!
Should have bought one.

 

This is why I am personally keen on the idea of a Gen V L83. 5.3L, all aluminum, without the premium of a “real” LS motor. I won’t be looking for crazy power, but those make 355/383 factory and you can get to 450/450 when you do the Cam & AFM/DOD delete it seems (BTR stage 2).

I’m still in the planning stages, but that with a newer 6L/8L/10L transmission to back it up would be everything I am looking for.

 

true but then that defeats the point of cost savings/simplicity in buying a factory gen 6 454 lol heads out the factory are decent enough to make power. You do need an intake however. Ends up being a bit heavier but not a deal breaker

 

This is about what you can expect based on the history of LS swaps we've see at this site:

* Stock 5.3L makes about 270 RWHP after being swapped into a 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird. That's +100 RWHP more than a healthy stock 3rd gen.
* Moderate cam (low 220's duration @ 0.050) will get you to about 330 - 340 RWHP.
* And porting the heads will get you up to about 370 RWHP.

If you can afford it, the larger LS engines definitely perform better. A 6.0L with a cam swap starts where the 5.3L left off and it's fairly typical to see 400 - 450 RWHP depending on cam, intake, and head porting.

The LS1, LS3 and other aluminum block engines are too expensive to be talking about for this thread.

 

Interesting data points. Thanks.
Question: Which heads would be on the 6 litre to achieve 450 RWHP? That's a 550 HP engine.
This isn't a bait, it's a genuine question. I've read about various outputs for all manner of LS combinations but haven't necessarily paid attention.

 

If Gen III head, then usually switch to a ported head of the 5.3L or Corvette variety for higher compression bump. You have to be smart about your combo, not every yahoo does this you know.

If Gen IV head, then can use stock or ported depending how big a cam you're willing to use. With the Gen IV head comes the LS3 intake which is part of what makes it easier.

But don't forget a major big difference here with the LS engines... this is all happening while still being able to still close the hood. That's what is never discussed in these kind of threads is that the SBC crowd are wearing big huge cowl hoods.

 

I can recall fitting the RPM Air Gap fitted SBC under the stock hood with a 3" open element filter. But there was contact. Very slight but contact nonetheless. A different filter base (such as an OEM L88 I think) would have created a little more room.
As it stands now, I've got a low profile GlassTek cowl hood that's maybe an 1 1/2" tall. And very sharp looking if I do say so myself . It allows room for a 4" filter element with room to spare. Which in turn should allow for experimentation with a carb spacer. Or a move to an single plane manifold.
But the stock hood clearance is duly noted.
The BBC 502 swap into the 86 TA required a 4" cowl. Now that was a little too extreme for my liking.
Not sure how the LM7 I have compares in overall height to the Gen 1. It has the truck manifold now which I understand are quite tall by comparison. I've also considered going carbureted if the swap ever happens but I can't say how tall an carbed intake for an LS is either.