Ok here it is....I currently am running a 327ci in front of a 700r4.
I bought the motor from a friend of a friend. supposed to have forged internals, has "worked" double hump heads. I dont have the specs on the cam," Rough Idle" chugs and lurches with stock converter. The tranny is newly rebuilt out of a 83 caprice" 27 spline"
The motor sat for over a year, and I believe the valve guides have dried and cracked, ( getting small amount of blue smoke on start-up, and when I get off of WOT. When I first start the car up I get clatter from the pistons, I'm told forged pistons will do this until the motor warms up...True???
The motor is using some oil....1qt 5-600 miles....I'm sure it needs a rebuild.
I just purchased a stock never been touched 400ci and a th400, all original...and running for $100.
I want a car that is streetable but competitve at our local track..Scribner Ne.
My budget is tight..my hopes are high...
I like the 327...6000rpms sounds great coming out of my 3" exaust....I just have alot of trouble holding traction.
SOOOOOOOOOO...Rebuild the 327 ? OR build the 400 While Driving the 327 ?????
Any comments will be greatly appreciated:hail:

 

Scribner, eh? Ran a V6 Vega there back in '83/'84.

If you're having trouble with traction with the 327, the 400 will be a nightmare. But, that's not such a bad problem to have . Traction improvement will make a big difference in your 60' times, which has an amazing affect on your 1320 ET's.

Do a compression check on the 327. If it looks okay, or doesn't change from dry to wet, then your "problems" may be limited to the heads. The smoke you describe is probably from dried or poor valve guide seals, and/or worn guides (the guides themselves don't "dry"). This could also be the reason for your oil consumption. A set of aftermarket heads like World, AFR, Dart, Holley, whatever may please you with the change in overall performance - double humps were the ticket in their day, but their day has passed.

Forged pistons can clatter a little when cold. I had a home-made 302 with forged pistons that clattered hot or cold. The 396 pistons I have now are quiet, though. I think it depends a lot on how they are clearanced when the cylinders are honed.

The cam may or may not be the reason for your rough idle. Poor valve sealing could be an issue as well (see the head paragraph above).

For a street car, it's hard to beat the TH700 with its OD, lockup torque converter, and high number ratio 1st gear. A higher stall converter may surprise you as well. The TH400's are tough, but have their own set of problems, and aren't that great for cruising vs. the OD trannies.

If you go with that 400, the stock heads and cam are junk for performance. We have a fellow racer out here with such a 400 in a '59 El Camino - his times aren't much better than my stock LG4 times were. Keep telling him he needs better heads & cam, he just keeps trying to fix other things (exhaust, carb, gears, etc.).

Whichever engine you decide to use, send the other one to me. If you decide to go with the TH400, I'd like a TH700 for my '57 as well...

 

I c an see you are swaying towards keep and rebuild the 327. I was thinking that way too. but I hate not having my car while the build i.s . going on. Maybe you could suggest a cam, head ,stall combo you like for this screamer.....Im kinda limited on stalls with the older 700r4....

 

Assuming the 327 shortblock is okay, and since you mentioned budget, it would be cheaper to stay with the 327. It just won't go as fast as it would with the 400.

As for combo: Sportman IIs, Comp 280, 3000 stall Vigilante (sp?).

 

Budget is always an issue when you are a carpenter with a one year old son.. .
I'll do the compression checks and post my results....the block is supposed to have been bored .30 over. According to the casting # it is a small journaled 2 bolt main.....I'm sure when I had the motor out, and the pan off I counted 4 bolts....can this be...can you make a 2 bolt block into a 4 bolt ???? The guy I bought it from assured me it was indeed a 4 bolt. The stock Crank in these were forged and the nickle content is really good.
Ok, now to sound like a carpenter......What do you mean by testing the compression wet, Dry?
Man it sure did snow here last night, I just looked outside and id guess there is 3-4 inches of snow . Guess I'll be driving the wife,s cutlass. As I said before , traction is a problem.
My biggest problem with this motor is I dont have the specs on nuttin....My good friends friend built the motor, HAD it in a Monza.Raced one season at Scribner. My friend (who I trust) Watched this motor run mid and upper 12"s. My friend bought the motor from him just before he moved east.
The only thing I changed ,was I swapped the torker II intake for the performer..I still have the torker II..Would this be a better intake?
I get great oil pressure, on idle warm it runs about 30.and jumps to 50-60 under load . ( new melling oil pump before swap)
I know it has a large cam...wont idle much under 1000rpm, When in gear a very choppy 750 to 800. But I will Match a new cam with the new heads.
So how streetable is a 3000 stall? I know with the high revs this motor produces...Ive seen 7000 in person....Talk about sounding tough ..anyway....with a 3000 stall will the motor cruise at all below 3000 rpm or Are you stuck at running above 3000rpm?
Soooooooooo many ???????? huh!
Anyway. Have a great day...even if it is Monday
P.s If my writing seems a little mixed up...remember it is mon. morning..early:lala:

 

Monday is a terrible way to spend 1/7th of your life...

See if you can obtain more info about the specifics of the engine from the guy who built it. Sounds like it's a hard runner, old-school lumpy idle cam, etc., but cam specs and compression ratio would be helpful. A 2-bolt block can be converted to 4-bolt, fairly simple procedure.

I've never had a Torquer II, had an original Torquer, no power below 2500 rpm, but I've never heard anything good about the II. A Performer RPM or Stealth may be a better choice for a dual-purpose car.

As for the compression test, you first run all the cylinders in the normal fashion (all plugs out, coil disabled, choke and throttle held full open, crank each cylinder until max pressure reached, record each cylinder's pressure, etc.). That's the dry test. Then, you put a tablespoon or so of oil in the cylinders through the spark plug holes, turn the engine over a few times to spread it around the cylinder, and then repeat the compression test. If the rings are worn, the oil will tend to enhance the seal and raise the compression pressure significantly from the dry test. You have to do both in order for the wet test to have any meaning. If the dry test numbers are close cylinder-to-cylinder and where they should be (say 150 psi), and no significant change to the dry test, then everything's fine. If the dry test is low and the wet test is low, then you have valve sealing problems.

A high-quality 3000 stall converter with lockup will be streetable. May actually improve the street manners, especially idle and off-idle. If everything else checks out, and you can live with the cam and intake, the TC may be the first place to spend some money. Traction improvement the next.

 

Thanks alot 5 seven I would have screwed up the compression check for sure.
The 327 is the way I will go, if the short block is ok.
I will just plan on retiring the double humps..
From waht I've been reading on this board the rpm intake will fit under my stock hood if I use the drop-base air cleaner, Correct?
I will see if I can get the specs on the cam and compession Ratio, The previous owner contacts my friend from time to time.
Another guy at work has an old beater ford truck that I'm looking at buying to get me to work..once I have something to drive, the rebuild is on...
I'm a little concerned about the 83 27 spline tranny, But with the transgo reprograming kit, and the new stall with a b&m shifter, I guess I'll just give it a try...thanks again for your help, It would be nice to meet you if you are ever in the area.
We have friends in denver, well actually, Idaho Springs, Thats where you are living isnt it Denver? ( without looking at your profile)...Ok just checked your profile..Littleton..just west of Denver right ? We make about 2 trips to denver a year, I sure would like to check out your car, sounds like a nice ride
Thanks again for taking the time to help out a fellow Mid west farm boy out. I'll be talking to ya later.......
P.S Anybody else want to take something from this post....your welcome

 

So 5-seven are these the cam specs im looking for.......
Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 280 intake/285 exhaust
* Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 242 intake/250 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .507 in. intake/.532 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 108 degrees
* RPM range: 3,000-6,000
* Good torque for heavy car, 10.0:1 compression ratio, 3,000+ stall converter.
these are for the comp cams solid lifter cam.
I checked out the world heads....$250 price difference between assembled and unassembled.....assembly worth $250?

 

Part # Item Price Qty Price Delete

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BMM-80692 Chevrolet/Pontiac: 1982-92 Camaro/Firebird, TH350/TH400/TH200/TH700R4 transmissions, Console Megashifter $151.95
$151.95


CCA-12-221-5 Chevrolet: 262-400, 280/285 degrees duration, solid, Hi-Tech drag race cam $149.69
$149.69


EDL-7101 Chevrolet: 262-400, dual plane, square flange, non-EGR, 1,500 to 6,500 rpm, aluminum, Performer RPM intake manifold $124.95
$124.95


WRL-011250-1 Chevrolet: 262-400, 64cc combustion chamber, straight plug, cast iron head $397.50
$795.00



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SubTotal: $1,221.59


Ok one more thing...who makes the vigillante stall ???
Oh and bye the way........you need any carpentry work done????

 

Talk to Dana at Pro Built Automatics about the tranny. He carries the TC and will give you the straight scoop about what else you should do and expect. (Check the Tranny forum for his 800 #.)

I assume the cam is one you're looking at, not the one currently in it. You don't really need solid lifters, but it'll work. A hydraulic will be a little more street-friendly, quieter, and less hassle.

I bought my heads unassembled because I have always heard the S/R's could use some bowl cleanup (even World admitted that). Not sure about Sportsmans, though, but I figure my labor is cheap (also a good excuse to get a spring compressor).

I have a lot of fun with those two cars, but they certainly aren't optimized or show-quality - true "drivers". No carpentry work needed right now, but if that 400 happens to come out with you on your next trip, exit C470 at Bowles, right on Kipling, right on Fair, left on Lake...

 

I'll Talk to Dana about the tranny, Yes , that is the specs on a cam I was looking at, I did't notice the solid, whoops...ofcourse hydraulic,(early morning shopping>>)

Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 280 intake/280 exhaust
* Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 230 intake/230 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .480 in. intake/.480 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 110 degrees
* RPM range: 2,000 to 6,000
* Rough idle

these are the specs on the comp magnum 280/280. HYDRAULIC
Would this be better?

If I wasn't having fun I sure wouldn't own one of these cars....My wife just doesnt understand how cussing, bleeding,getting grease in my eye, working overtime, can be fun!!!??
Then she ditches her 96 olds cutlass supreme 2 door with 65,000 miles to drive my 125,000 mi PITA Camaro...who would figure
Well thanks again and be seeing ya
Ron

 

ok 5-seven, after much thought and consideration....Ive decided to go with the 400.....I want more power and torque than the 327 can deliver..more, more ,always more.
Ill have the motor on a stand this week end. Gonna strip it down to the block. I'll take it to a shop and have it boild.
Any advice on what machine work I will need done to the block ?
I want to run 450 -500 hp.
The motor and tranny came out of a 70's impala.
This build will take awhile..$$$$$. This is all new to me, and I could use some help. I have a pretty good mechanical aptitude and follow directions pretty good, ( blueprints...carpenter).
So how about you help me out, slowly step by step....and we'll see what we can do on the extra 700r4. I'm gonna keep the 327 never know!!!
I want to use the th400...I know, no overdrive, but I dont drive on the highway anyway, so that isnt a problem. Seems cheaper to build also.
So if you are willing to help me out lets get started.:hail:
P.S I actually have 2 700r4's, One is missing left top mounting ear.

 

Sorry, been busy over the weekend (trying to put shift kit in the Camaro).

Take the block to the machine shop and have them check it over. They might charge $75, but it will be worth it to have them tank it, mic it, check for cracks, etc. Then they can tell you what all it needs.

The hot ticket seems to be to go with 5.7" rods with pistons to match, vs. the shorter factory 400 rods. The cam should be okay (RPM range might be slightly lower with the larger cubes), just make sure it won't have any clearance issues with the rods. The machine shop may be able to help with that, Comp certainly should. Otherwise, everything will be standard rebuilding technique.

Don't forget you'll need to use the 400 harmonic damper and flexplate. The starter shouldn't be a problem if it's the same one the Impala had. Pro Built can help you with the TH400 as well. I'd highly recommend considering Spohn's cross-member and torque arm kit for the TH400.

Vader was going to do a tech article on engine rebuilding, maybe he'll get it done soon.

The '57 really, really wants a TH700...

 

hows the kit working?
I looked at the spohn torque arm this morning...$355. Not Bad, looks decent also..it mounts to the cross member instead of the tailshaft.
So you still reccomend the world II heads? 64cc?
Ive been reading about the "steam holes" between the cylinders, they say I have to have the heads drilled to match, is this correct?
Didnt get a start on the motor Sunday. Forgot it was Easter...Had to do the family thing..next weekend...this time of year gets buisy for me.
I'll get some pics and show ya what we have to start with.
Do ya think I should go with forged assembly? I dont plan on using nitros, and to tell ya the truth I hate the chattering in my 327.
So the block is a 2-bolt...some have said to hold 450 -500 hp, I need to add 4-bolt splayed caps..what do you think? Can I make this hp and still run 92 octain? My 327 hardly runs on 87 or 89,
The 700r4 like I said is a 83-84 27 spline....When I get the build done , I'll let ya have it. Hasnt been used since being rebuilt...of course you have to wait till we visit our friends....and if it will fit in the trunk of a 96 cutlass

 

Kit's going slow. Pro Built needs to send me some more parts (needed to know what mine had it in, found broken parts when got it apart, etc.).

I'd go with the Sportsman II's. You have to drill the steam holes, but the sheet that comes with them tells you exactly how to do it. With flat tops and thick head gasket, you should be able to run it on pump gas. With 72cc (I think that's what the bigger chamber ones are) and flat tops, you could probably run it on regular.

My old 302 was built in the early 70's when forged pistons and racing engine meant "loose". Your 327 was probably built the same way. The 396 was built in '97 - like I said, the pistons are quiet in it. I think you can go with forged and not have to worry about clattering as long as the machine shop hones it to the clearances recommended by the piston maker.

Most people will say the 2-bolt blocks are stronger than the factory 4-bolt. Splayed caps would be nice, but probably aren't necessary for your power level.

I was only half joking about the tranny. But, I'm not one to look the gift horse in the mouth...

 

Here check out this thread...I thought the 2-bolt was stronger also..https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=96158

 

The outer bolts on a factory-style 4-bolt go straight down, and the holes for them actually reduce the material in the bearing web, creating a weak spot. The splayed caps avoid that by angling the outer bolts into a healthy spot in the casting, so that problem is avoided.

A cracked factory 4-bolt is more common than a bearing loss in a 2-bolt. That should tell you something.

 

I'll keep my 2 bolt I know the 400 is an externally balanced motor, Has to be balanced at a machine shop....My question is can I take it assembled or do they have to do it ? As for drilling steam holes ..that sounds pretty easy, but I may just have it done when I get it bored and decked, if needed. Anyway just waiting for the weekend...

 

It doesn't really have to be balanced, but it's a good idea if it's going to rev high or regularly. The engine has to be disassembled (they'll need all the internal rotating parts, including rings, pistons, bearings, crank, etc.), and it's best to have the engine balanced seperate from the damper and flexplate (otherwise, they all become a matched set). The other choice is to have the crank balanced internally using heavy metal plugs (forget the name of the stuff off the top of my head), then you can use internally-balanced damper and flexplate. A nice thing to do, but quite a bit more expensive.

You do understand that the steam holes need to be drilled in the heads. They're already in the block.

 

Yeah I figured out the steam hole concept, never heard of them before, but I think I undestand now.
I'll check on the pricing for each method of balancing, then decide. I'll probably go with the best method, I know if I cut corners with the build, I'll just be saying alot of " If only...."
I made alot of mistakes on my first swap, I like to think I have learned something from it It may take a bit longer but I'll know what I have when I'm done....I love the sound of 500 hp in a street machine,
I know its gonna cost some $$$$$$, My wife and I dont really do anything else but work and take care of our son, I work days , she works nights...The Camaro is something we both enjoy...and I hope to show my Son Riley , a much better way to get a "Rush"
than drugs or crime, Some people Go to the lake...we're going to the track.


Later,
Ron