whatcha think? going into a flowmaster merge and then a 4th gen borla..The 4th gen Borla bolted right up..NO mods had to be done to it AT ALL.
The guy is in Raleigh, NC if anyone in the state needs a mandrel bender....I couldnt find one anywhere..I had to drive 100miles open headers but it was worth not having to cut, piece, weld a bunch of separate pieces together....



















gotta raise the passenger side up just a bit and have it moved to the left just a tad

 

well done! Sound clip?

 

very nice, how does it sound?

 

That is the way it should be done.

 

That is a very nice Y pipe. I'd like to see some pics of the ground clearance with the car on it's wheels. It looks like there is tons of ground clearance, almost as much as my setup, but I know it has to hang down some because you have that big automatic trans to deal with. I gotta say thats how I would have done it if I didnt have my Jegster torque arm.

Also, can anyone tell me why everyone goes back into a 3" cat back? You've got that awesome 3" Y pipe, why dont you run a single 4" cat back? If you have a motor that needs a 3" y pipe you probably need a 4" single cat back. I'm not slamming your setup, I like it a lot for a car that has an automatic trans and stock style torque arm, I just wonder why everyone has these awesome huge Y pipes and then goes back in to a dinky cat back... for quick refrence here's a pic of mine so you know what I'm comparing it to.

 

1MeanZ, I wonder that all the time when I see people posting pictures of their exhaust set up. If you need a 3" y pipe you sure the heck can have the exhaust go out a single 3" pipe?

The exhaust system that I built is a a duel 3" into a single 4". Yea it is a tight fit, but it does fit even with all the factory heat sheilds in place. I won't put up pictures in this thread but if you care to see what I did? Here is the thread.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ex...t-picture.html (My exhaust picture)


Wishmaster's87IROC,

It looks nice. I just think that you probably need a bigger rear section. i have seen a few threads on the progress of your car and think your probably loosing quite a bit of power with the back section of your exhaust.

 

what do you mean?

 

really like this exhaust, think I am going to get mine to look like this after engine is done. A+++++

 

Were you asking me "what do you mean?"

 

you were saying that you think Im losing alot of power with the cat back system? What do you mean by that? Hell its a borla with no plate in it...wide open...basically a straight thru design..

If any like you say, it cant be that much? How would you improve it?

and the guy above you saying to run a 4" after the flowmaster merge pipe.

there are plenty of 500+ cars running this exact same setup

 

First i am not picking on you or your car. I like you car and you have put a ton of work into it.

Second lets start out with the basics.

1) The exhaust cools down as it goes through the exhaust system. If you were to take a thermal temp reading at the header and at the tail pipe they are

2) The exhaust system has something called exhaust velocity. Now on an open header car the headers scavenged by the collector. Of coarse the true impact on exhaust scavenging is highly dependent on the engine speed and th

3) As the exhaust goes through the exhaust system several things happen. It is not just about making the car quiet to meet noise standards.e efficiency of the intake system. about 500 degrees different.

3a) The exhaust helps pull the spent cylinder (Inside the engine) used air/fuel mixture into the header tube. This is the theory on why a LT header makes more power. Since the tube is longer there is more scavenge force applied by a longer tube.

3b) As the exhaust meets in the collector the additional cylinders start to build a vacuum to help scavenge the additional cylinders.

3c) The spent exhaust also now expands when it reaches the collector. In the collector is the first place that it is really seeing room for expansion.

4) The exhaust is now expanded as much as it gets and start to head down the exhaust system. It now has a given velocity that we can call X.

5) As the exhaust goes down the exhaust system it is still burning some in the exhaust pipe. This is due to some of the unburnt air/fuel mixture that is left in the exhaust system.


5a) for those of you who are old enough. You probably remember that you should take some cheep spray paint and paint the head pipes of your 60's car to see where to put in the crossover pipe. This is why you do that.

6) As the exhaust goes through the exhaust system the exhaust starts to cool and it loosed velocity. Loosing exhaust velocity has a big impact on how effective an exhaust system is. So in theory.. You would want to neck down your exhaust system the farther back it goes.

Side note here (My 67 camaro has 3 1/2" collectors, to a Dr gas cross pipe that is 3 1/2" in and 3" out. then it goes into mufflers that are 3" inlet with 2 1/2" tail pipes. It has been on a chassie dyno and made 731 hp at the rear wheels.)


7) The flowmaster merge that you have added in your exhaust is another collector in a way. At that point you have two 3" pipes merging into one 3" pipe. That is killing your performance!

This is why I said that your really hurting your performance with your exhaust system.

Now are to your statement about there are plenty of 500+ cars running this exact same setup. That is true. But most of the late modle cars that are 500+ hp on the street are being done with Vortec superchargers. When a car has a blower the exhaust system is now under boost. This has a huge effect on the dynamics of the exhaust system. When something is under pressure that whole formula now changes.

Also if you figure out the inside area of the front pipe from each side off the LT do you think that the area of two 3" will flow smoothly into one 3" pipe?

Most of this information is all from the Headers by Ed or Eddy Henneman. who is considered to be one of the best header fabricators. He also developed most of the traditional standards that are used in exhaust system technology today.

All I am saying is you have a lot of really nice and expensive parts on your car. Don't skimp on the exhaust. Right now it is basically 1/2 right. If you might remember when you had problems assembling your engine and I had told you what the problem was? I know what I am talking about. most of the exhaust information that I pull out of my memory was stuf I learned at Sema shows 15 years ago.

 

WOW!!!!.....umm? long write up!
no sweat man!....I didnt take anything you said negative.

So what your saying is like 1MEANZ is saying? from the flow merge run a 4" pipe? but Borla doesnt make a 4" cat back system

or just scrap the Borla and go for a true dual as above?

How much power do you think its really costing?

Actually its coming off the collectors into 3" tubes then to the flow merge which is two 3" in and 3.5" out with a reducer 3.5">3" cone going back into the 3" tube of the cat back Borla and then from there ...I dont really know what the size of the pipes are....

 

Well I just wanted you to know where I was coing from. Like I said i like your car and what you have done to it. I know you have a sweet motor and glad that you got all the bugs worked out.

Ideally the merge sould have been a duel 3" to 4" and then run a single 4" out the back. Since you have the 3 1/2 merge I would look at a 3 1/2" exhaust system. If your willing to change the merge I'd look at getting a duel 3" to 4" merge and get a 4" cat back system or have one made.

Hard to say how much power your loosing. I am sure it is at lease 50+ hp at the rear wheels.

The guy that built the front part of your exhaust shuld be able to make a nice true duel exhaust setup. Not sure which one would be less expensive.

Let us know what route you go.

 

shoot!!!..I just paid the guy $300 for that setup.....and here I thought I was doing good!..well damn!...and I love the sound of a borla atleast for now
Im hoping to get somewhere close to 400WHP

Oh yeah Im sure with out a doubt the guy can make any setup anyone needs...he's good! and he does it all in his home garage.

I'll see what got as far as RWHP....and then decide from there.....when I get the extra cash I'll get him to make me a dual setup and sell the piece I have now.

 

Well if you take it and put it on a chassie dyno, let us know what the numbers are. Your on the right track. The guy looks like he does great work. I am sure it it will run great.

You should be easly able to get 400 RWHP out of that set up. One hp per cubic inch is easy with efi and the parts that you have. You should be up real close to 500 RWHP with a good tune up.

One last thing to mention... Not in your case but plenty that I have seen on many peoples cars...

People will spend lots of money on a motor and then put some low buck exhaust system on it. It is like upgrading the motor, trans and rear end and not touch the suspension or brakes.

 

Well Comp788 as said everything that I would have said anyway. But I wanted to step in and also say that I love your car Wishmaster and I'm not intending to knock you in any way. I simply wanted to say that dual 3 to single 3 is a bit of a jump. even dual 3 to single 3.5" would be better. Do I think your current single 3" setup is completely crippling your motor, no. But I do feel you are leaving some well-deserved horsepower on the table by runing a single 3" pipe. I'd sell the Borla and get a mufflex setup or have your exhaust guru make you a 4" catback. if he can make a Y pipe like that I'm sure he can make you a cat back. Again, nice car and good work so far. We're all still learning, thats why we are here.

 

Guys..Im not taking anything you all say negative....Im learning at my ripe ol age.......started late..middle aged crisis I guess...LOL
I wouldnt mind running a true dual setup like what you got but I dont see how you tucked those mufflers up there.......what kind are they? does it sound good? H pipe or X same thing? more power? same sound?


Comp? dont even get my hopes up...LOL....
Im hoping for atleast close to 400+...theres no way..I'll be anywhere close to 500...I WISH THOUGH!...but now way..not with the small 226/232 cam.

 

Your setup is great and will flow plenty for 400hp you would gain little to none with going true duals.

1meanz that is a sweet install, one of the best true dual setup I have ever seen for our cars...great job!

PS: Wishmaster yours is a very clean install also another great job and as I said it should flow great for 400hp.

 

[QUOTE=Wishmaster's87IROC;3399506]
I wouldnt mind running a true dual setup like what you got but I dont see how you tucked those mufflers up there.......what kind are they? does it sound good? H pipe or X same thing? more power? same sound?
QUOTE]

well there's more than meets the eye with my exhaust. I have a Tremec TKO600 trans, which is smaller than a 700R4 by a long ways. I also have a jegster torque arm which tucks up nicely in the trans tunnel. Finally I removed my rear seat a long time ago and simply "raised" the floor where the rear seat used to be to fit the mufflers. IT isn't as hillbilly as it sounds. I just massaged the floor pan up where the rear seats used to be and the mufflers fit nicely there. You can just see round spots for the mufflers in the carpet from inside the car.

As for the sound, you be the judge.

drag pass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdecnsd1MYU

burnout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW60FldfiSs

2 dyno pulls (long but worth it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgc-E1ukViE

 

Sounds good to me...Im wondering if you would have picked up more HP/TQ if there would have been some in coming air in front of you car....you know like the big fans they usually put in the fronts.

 

I have 2210s that go into a 3" dual to 4" single Y-pipe. Then that goes into a 4" cat-back, with a spintech muffler. All made by mufflex. I had to mod mine to go around my spohn tranny member, but its ok now. A little low in one spot, so I am gonna replace it with oval pipe in that one spot. Then I will be back to neer stock ground clearance. The 4" sounds badass. If I ever get my car up on a lift I will take some pics of how I have it routed.