wrsjr

I can't find a single muffler shop locally (within 30 miles) who will put a dual exhaust system on my car AND no one will even touch my car if I don't have a catalytic conv on the car. There are no emissions testing required where I live, but they keep saying its a federal law. My engine is not the original factory engine so I though there was a way around this or depending on the vehicles age. Maybe every exhaust shop I've ever been to has done illegal work for me....

19doug90

every shop everywhere does illegal work, the way out is that oh they assumed it was for a track only car, and looked the other way when you drove off with it lol.

they probably dont want to mess around with duals because trying to run them over the axel is really tough and the pipes are pretty much guaranteed to get crushed, they both have to go over the passenger side

best way for duals is turndowns before the axel

87CamaroDude

Do you have a freind that could help you weld an exhaust on? The place where I got my exhaust done they encourage you to take the cadylac converter off.

wrsjr

Thats what I wanted are turndowns. I told them I would have l.t. headers and I wanted 3" pipe with an X pipe and dual flowmasters. He started saying I would need to cut out the floor pan and crap. I know it can be done, but he doesn't seem to want to challenge himself. I've thought about using a Boom tube exiting in front of each rear wheel but I know if I threw out that curve ball they would really get scared.

andrew91rs

where do you live?

19doug90

thats from a thread halfway down the page

hardest part of that setup is installing the headers, thats the system im going to run on my car. I'm gonna throw a gutted cat behind the y-pipe and itll even look like its emissions legal

wrsjr

GA. There is no emissions testing where I live. He just talked about the federal law about removing the cat. I'll go find some backwoods shop to do the work, plenty around here.

19doug90

lol thats jokes, never heard of an exhaust shop turning down business because the guy wants his cat gone

ya should be pretty straight forward man

my buddy told me something about when dumping before the axel the dumps should point in towards the center of the car on a 45 degree angle. Not sure why that is or if theres any truth to it, but might be something to research

MrDude_1

its very common for exhaust shops to turn you away if you arnt legal.

remember your area might not have emmissions INSPECTIONS or emissions TESTING.. but the emissions LAW is federal... and the fine for the shop FAR outweighs the money they can make.


what you can do:


take off the tag.
drive it onto your (aka your friends) trailer.
bring it to the shop.
they do it for your off road only drag car.
trailer it home (or atleast around the corner)
bolt tag back on and enjoy.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

That's EXACTLY what I had to do here in RI. It's the ONLY way I could get the buy to install a straight pipe instead of the CAT. When I set up the appointment the guy said "If it comes in with a cat on it - it has to leave with a cat on it." My Berlinetta had headers installed but nuthin' else at the time so I didn't care if it was on a flat bed !


----------
P.S. my 86 coupe has a factory 2 muffler exhaust on it from an 83 Z28 and both pipes are bent over the axle. What's the big deal with having a muffler shop install the same kind of set-up ???

socal

if they touch it it has to have a cat, this is how it works in TX
----------
it can be done

86irocu

iTrader: (3)

factory dual exhaust huh??? looks like a muffler shop special...

socal

No, if your refering to jhon in ri, i think that's factory, back is high school a friend of mine had an 82 or 83 firebird w that same exact setup and i thought it was just some hack job too

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The "T" arrangement is factory.

Must be at least 200 lbs of exhaust under that car with all the pics.... that's somewhere around 6-7% of the TOTAL CAR WEIGHT, in exhaust. I wonder what the HP gain vs weight penalty on that turns out to be.

Right, exhaust shops don't want to face fines of tens of thousands of dollars, just so some schmoe can run without a cat. Since cats basically don't cost ANY HP AT ALL these days, I fail to see what's to get all worked up about. Rather like "true duals".... the benefits just aren't there.

86irocu

iTrader: (3)

It doesnt look factory or beneficial for that matter. I dont see what the point of that exhaust was...

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

From the 82 Shop Manual:

The "resonator" is the pipe that connects the cat-back to each of the mufflers in the center of the design. In "layman's terms" - The mufflers flow better and sound cool !

MrDude_1

like the dudeman above me just said..

it sounds cool

it looks like a muffler shop hackjob, but yes, that was OEM in 82... i know. i had one.
go look at a model car for that year.. they have the same muffler thing too.



and it does sound good... flows like crap, but this was in 1982.. hell the motor bearly made 100hp.. LOL.

compuwiz1937

iTrader: (17)

Why don't you just have them incorporate your stock cat in the setup, then when you get home you can either gut the cat or install a straight pipe.

yevgenievich

iTrader: (4)

i think some people don't put in the cat because it costs more than they can afford.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

yea they can be ***** [Please watch your language]......a few options, take the tag off and trailer it to the shop, tell them its a race car only and has no registration if they hessitate tell them, if they desire do it under the table with no paper trail............ go to your local track and ask people there alot of the guys have the crap at their home shop to do it, toss them a case of beer and some $20's............ hollow out a cat and bolt it up, it looks like a cat it must be one LOL...... good luck

rx7speed

emissions work is a touchy subject. if they remove emissions equipment i believe it is a $10,000-$25,000 fine depending on conditions. some people know they won't get caught easily, others though don't want to take that much of a risk and I can't blame them. plus being this is a federal law it doesn't matter if you have emissions testing in your area or not. that is state run on if they enforce the testing part but still the federal law says you must retain all original equipment or equiv replacement at all times. the feds will enforce that one not your state. it's just like marijuana in california. sure for medical use it's legal as far as the state sees it but if any fed government agency sees you with that stuff growing or in your controll your going to jail.

best thing you can do is either do the work yourself or as others have said trailer it in without tags and make it look like a race car rather then a street car.

jay_d

you don't live in north east GA do you? cause im from GA too and i had the same problem getting duals put on my mud truck........no tag no bumper....40" tires and they said " cant do it" " you might decide to register that thing"

My personal advice........have the cat put in.....take it home get out the sawz all and trash that POS

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Cats are good. They keep the guy behind you from passing out.

-- Joe

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's about the LAMEST excuse that could possibly exist.

These same people that can't "afford" to make their cars LEGAL, seem to have plenty of money for various idiotic non-functional "bling" (not that in this specific case, this specific poster is necessarily one of those, but in general).... stupid chrome crap under the hood, wheels that don't fit and/or look ugly and/or mismatch the car, stereo equipment, and on and on and on.... yet when it comes to something where you come to the fork in the road, and if you take one path (cat) you get to drive your car, but if you take the other path (no cat) you CAN'T drive your car... they "can't afford it"?

What a CROCK!!!!

Cats are CHEEEP. The LAW is the LAW, and it applies to both YOU and to the BUSINESSES that have to still be in business tomorrow if they want to continue to EAT, and some kid that wants a loud car and thinks that just because he hacked a non-original motor into it, isn't worth risking their LIVELIHOOD over.

Here's a typical cat for our cars. http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=WLK%2D15043 If this is SO MUCH MONEY that you "can't afford it", then maybe this isn't the right hobby?

91-RS-B4C-fake?

It's just funny how life goes.

I live in a non smog state.

I took mine to several local shops.
Everyone said they would replace them
with new ones, but not remove them.

I went to a high performace shop.
He said the same thing.

Other than that he was the most cooperative, so
I had him do the install of the headers, dual cats & cat back.

Less than a month later my neighbor took his 1998 Mustang GT
to the same High pro shop & they took all his cats out, installed his
headers & a different style "x" pipe along with some other go fast
goodies without any problem.

Go figure.
He must have liked working on Mustangs more.

ad356

BUY A CAT. stop screwing around. people that do this give our hobby a bad rep. i bought a catco 3" cat for my 89 RS 305. lets just say it was the LEAST expensive part of my exhaust system, i think it was 125 bucks. the headers were 500 bucks and the cat back was 250 bucks. get a good flowing cat. newer technology used in more modern cats it much better than they were when your car was new, you loose very little if any horsepower by doing installing one. protect the environment and yourself by installing a cat. when i did my exhaust i made everything fit and operate as it did when the car was new. smog pump, emissions compliant headers with smog tubes. i know that my car is putting out as little hydro-carbons as possible. not to mention it is very easy to get it past inspection with everything hooked up and operating as intended. the inspector can say nothing about it at all. i even have the edlebrock emissions legal decal mounted on the cooling shroud. just because your state doesn't have any emissions inspection now doesn't mean they wont in the future. i might pass new laws and then your 1000 dollar exhaust system becomes glorified scrap metal.

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

But that is within a "smog" country. Your state has just chosen not to profit by inspecting emission controls. The fine is the same there as anywhere. The shop is probably picky about who they break the law for and you didn't make the grade. :-(

I fired a tech at our shop for gutting converters for "friends". If we had been busted, it would have closed us down.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

I have 4 camaro's right now, every one has a gutted cat., well My Berlinetta has a straight pipe as explained earlier.

The state inspection is due on one of them and I will go out - buy the direct fit cat, install it, Pass the test, then remove it and sell it to a board member.

There's a lot of reasons, Like the smell of a hot car after a "workout", The "tone" of the exhaust, No more Hassles, & Because that's how I like it.





Make it a PRIVATE party and don't expect a mechanic that turns wrenches for a living to do you the favor !

TA

iTrader: (1)

These guys are 100% right, it is a federal law, and is randomly enforced by federal agents with very tight underwear, when and where they decide to. They send in young guys like you to "bait" the shop into doing something illegal, then WHAMMO!!! A motorcycle shop around the corner got nailed for a $40,000 fine because they SOLD a used bike that was missing it's emissions equipment. They've been selling bikes like that for 20 years, and NO state tests Motorcycles for emissions, so I thought nobody cared. It's just and example, the proprietor has a lot to loose unless they KNOW YOU PERSONALLY. This is your federal government looking out for you...

...besides, also correct is unless you have a SUPER NASTY ENGINE, you won't loose any power by running a high-flow cat. They'll put one on for you, but you have to show up without one or with a dead one, removing a functioning cat is also illegal. (Sigh...)

TA

Tbi-MAX

yepp, exact, get to know 1 of the exhaust guys as a friend... ive went to several shops, and they said no on my longtubess, no cats, and 3" exhaust... if not cats on the vehicle they will not work on it....

remembered my good buddies exhaust shop, called him up, he said not a problem, cause he knows me... they replaced my rattling cats with a 3" pipe for now, till i do my complete exhaust... just for 30$

my suv runs stronger, more bottom and top also, and alot quieter without the rattle, and my lope is alot more noticeable after the stock exhaust muffler...

im going to run without cats from now, just get the LTs, and a good muffler..

PedalToMetal

Why don't you just buy an off-road cat? It's like a straight pipe but with a cat on it. A gutted cat just creates a harmonics disruption problem.

yevgenievich

iTrader: (4)

being 13 grand in debt and $400 check a month makes it hard to afford a cat. My bird doesn't have a cat mainly because it didn't have it when i bought it. I'm not about to run out and spend $100 to buy a cat for it especially when i drive it once a month because the 305 is about to crap out on me.
and about the hobby; i am not building a drag or track car so it's not even a hobby due to lack of money

PedalToMetal

All this to save the manatees.

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

If you live in NE Ohio area I know place that put 2 1/4 dual (all my 305 needed) true duals on your car for about 200 bucks! a tiny bit more for 2.5-3" PM if you need it it's in Steubenville OH, Wierton WV area. and as according to the law, you have to promise me you are not a cop or apart of some pollution **** group so i don't get these cool dudes in trouble. it's cheap fast and it sounds awesome!!

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

They can come straight back,

86transamkid86

Where I live in mass there are a couple of import performace places that are glad to do that work IF you buy the things you need from there shop and they only charge you 100 dollers to instal the stuff and when you go for a sticker they will put your stock stuff back on and when your done they will put stuff back on for FREE...

Cflick

It is federal. If it had a cat stock, it needs to have a cat !
I find it very odd that you can't get a dual, though. As long as you do include at least one cat where all of the exhaust goes through it, there's nothing wrong with that. ( except in The Peoples Republic of California ) (( unless, of course, you tried arguing with them, and P'd them O )
If it has no cat now, but it should, there should be no problem putting at least one back in.

Furthermore, there is NO disadvantage to a cat today. None ! Hollowing out, or removing a properly sized modern honeycomb cat is both illegal, and a complete waste of time and effort.
How do I know ? Have I actually measured flow and backpressure both ways ? Well, yes I have !
My vehicle is hardly stock, and there's no problem passing emissions testing here ( Ohio ) with TRUE 3 inch duals. ALL duals, including dual 3 inch cats. ( $65 each at AutoZone, and garaunteed for life to boot ! )

Yes, there is a way around it depending on the vehicle's age.
If ( but only if ) it's old enough to have never had a cat from the factory, and in some locals if it's plated as a historic or antique vehicle, not a daily driver.

Your only other alternative, is to buy all the pieces parts and do it yourself.

R_F

My 86 T/A has an apointment on tuesday for a new exaust system.. At first i got a price quote for true duals and it was about 400 with high flow cats and i couldnt afford that so i got one for a factory style header back one and it was 190ish with a high flow cat (me providing the flowmaster and tips)... The only reason im not getting duals is after building the engine bolting up some edelbrock shorty headers and dropping it in my savings account is nearing zero so im getting the single to dual till i get some more money...

I can understand them not wanting to do it without putting cats on but not doing it at all? Unless they just order the systems and then install them and dont actually make custom exausts....

Like some other people said why not run cats?

Im in indiana and they dont smog test here but if they are a business getting paid to do the exaust it has to have a cat due to federal law

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

You can't find an exhaust shop to do your setup in Indiana? I bet it's not because of the cat more because you want the duals ran. I know a few other people who were trying to get duals with no cats and that excuse seemed to come up more often than not. When they said "how about a 3in single and I don't need a receipt" the shops were more than happy to oblige them. It's pretty ridiculous I've seen the excuse "we can't do it without a cat" come up at muffler shops but in the next bay they would be running 2in duals manifolds back on a full size trucks with no issues.

86irocu

iTrader: (3)

Most places pick and choose who they will do that kind of work for. My exhaust guy had no problem with my car when I brought it in with no cat, just a Y pipe. I did however already have most of the exhaust so he didnt have to fab a bunch of pipes up. But depending on the state you live in and what kind of muffler shop you goto you should be able to get the work done. I would try the local shops in the area, not the chain shops. Hell you could even get by drivin around with open headers.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

My wife was the Supervisor, for Texas DPS, in the division that checked out inspection stations, and made sure they were doing everything, by the book. No cat deletions, no cat gutting, etc. They would routinely send cars into stations, with KNOWN violations. They would even make the mos themselves, and see if the station would "look the other way". If the car passed, the station was busted.

The fine for messing with emissions equipment, including possibly being shut down, was WAY too high, for stations to try to skirt a Federal and state law.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's the fact in a nutshell right there.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Run your car on showcar insurance. Cheap, though limited mileage.

Dont' have to have anything on my car emissions wise as being a "show" car it is limited in the mileage I can drive it.

Insurance company never asked for how many miles were on the car when I switched to the show car insurance, and it hasn't had an emissions inspection since its waived with the show car insurance so there is no mileage reported.

I pay about $11/month for about $9000 in coverage on my GTA. Even though its far from a show car I told them I was showing it in the stock class but don't drive it all that much, which is true. I bought it on Sept 11th 2001 with 98,000 on the clock, and have only have 105,000 miles on it now. So I put about 1,000mi/yr on the car per year average. Well under the 3000 miles per year I'm allowed.

jay_d

OK, where me and the thread starter live, in GA, there is no emissions check B.S, and all of the GSP a holes are to lazy to crawl under a car to check for it...as a matter of fact i had a buddy in high school with a 65 chevy pickup that had Striaght hedders(no pipes after headers) who ran around for like a year like that...The only time, i repeat, the only time you can get into emissions trouble around here is when you hoss you moter to the wrong cop.

AND ANOTHER MATTER......What about the guy with the straight piped diesel pickup blowing a humoungus cloud of black smoke in the air? I believe thats a bigger deal than a lil bit of smoke of a v8 car

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

While the black diesel looks bad, emissions-wise, it's harmless. Not nearly as bad as a gasoline engine, only mildly puffing white smoke.

People automatically assume, that the black diesel smoke is bad, even I used to, until I learned the truth.

jay_d

i honestly could care less about diesel smoke....it makes my living everyday

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

The picture of the funny looking dual pipes on the 82 is factory. Some of the earily 83's had them also. The 65 Chevy truck mentioned does not have to have cats, because it did not come with them originally.In Georgia, the emissions have to appear stock. If the shop modifies the car from it's original form, they can be fined. Federal law. If your car came with a cat, it has to have one to be legal, but you can run cats and no mufflers. I have done it, and it sounds pretty cool. The best part is it's still legal!

19doug90

wow i havent seen someone actually make that setup work before.

With stock suspension componenets like on my car im pretty certain theres not enough room to run it through, the tubular stuff looks like it gives you a bit of extra clearance.

very nice

CamaroLover09

My 83 z28 has exhaust on it like that.(minus the rust) What did they look like after they stopped that style?

Guest

The truth? Thats not the truth. The truth of the matter is photochemical smog requires particulates to form. While removing all particulates from diesel engines wont remove the particulates required to form smog, it will reduce the amount available to carry out the process. Thats not to mention the sulfur, even in the low sulfur fuels, that falls to the ground, and enters the water supply and I'm totally ignoring the airborne problems of it.