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Cat Delete?

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Old Aug 4, 2008 | 12:52 AM
  #1  
New3ra's Avatar
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Car: 82 T/A 47,XXX
Engine: 305 until the ZZ4 355.
Transmission: turbo200
Axle/Gears: 3.42's
Cat Delete?

I have an 82 T/A Im thinking about getting a catback flomaster, well I AM.

Only thing is I want to delete my cat, can I just run a pipe in its place?

will it make a big difference?
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Old Aug 4, 2008 | 04:14 AM
  #2  
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From: kingsport, tennessee
Car: 84 z/28, 89 iroc-z
Engine: 305 H.O., 350 TPI
Transmission: auto, auto
Axle/Gears: 3.73's, 3.23's
Re: Cat Delete?

yes, it does make a big difference in sound & maybe a difference in peformance?

i just cut the cat out & got a piece of pipe welded in at a muffler shop for $45 took him less than 10 minutes

BUT my check engine light is now on, im not sure if its where its just missing the cat or what. but im not going to do any major work on the 305, im waiting to get a lt-1
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Old Aug 4, 2008 | 08:14 PM
  #3  
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Axle/Gears: 3.89 9"
Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by New3ra
will it make a big difference?
Nope.

-- Joe
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Old Aug 4, 2008 | 08:18 PM
  #4  
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From: Michigan
Car: 1986 Chevy Iroc-Z28
Engine: 1989 TPI 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt with 2.73 gears
Re: Cat Delete?

it depends, if its the stock cat then yes, If its a aftermarket performance cat then no. I don't have one on mine and its fine.
(I am about to put hedman longtubes on and an x-pipe straight back with no muffler too)
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 11:23 AM
  #5  
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From: Orange, SoCal
Car: 1990 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: 355 TPI siamesed runners
Transmission: Tremec T56
Axle/Gears: 12-Bolt 3.73
Re: Cat Delete?

Did you ? Where do you live? Removing your cat on a street car in the United States is a violation of federal law, regardless of whether your state does emissions checks or not. Please be a responsible hot rodder and replace your stock cat with an aftermarket cat such as from Magnaflow, Random Technology, or Catco.

Also, Flowmasters sound nice, but they flow horribly and they rust quickly. I would recommend something else, such as Magnaflow's new 3" thirdgen exhaust, or something from Hooker.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 11:32 AM
  #6  
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From: Bedford Tx
Car: 1991 Z28 1LE
Engine: 370CID GenIII
Transmission: 4l60e
Axle/Gears: 4.33 Moser 9inch
Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by Kevin91Z
Did you ? Where do you live? Removing your cat on a street car in the United States is a violation of federal law, regardless of whether your state does emissions checks or not. Please be a responsible hot rodder and replace your stock cat with an aftermarket cat such as from Magnaflow, Random Technology, or Catco.

Also, Flowmasters sound nice, but they flow horribly and they rust quickly. I would recommend something else, such as Magnaflow's new 3" thirdgen exhaust, or something from Hooker.
i definately agree with the first part the second part somewhat....magnaflows are nice but i love my flowmaster cat back and i have had it for over a year and have no rusting issue and every other flowmaster ive ever had never had a rust problem....
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 12:31 PM
  #7  
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From: Michigan
Car: 1986 Chevy Iroc-Z28
Engine: 1989 TPI 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt with 2.73 gears
Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by Kevin91Z
Did you ? Where do you live? Removing your cat on a street car in the United States is a violation of federal law, regardless of whether your state does emissions checks or not. Please be a responsible hot rodder and replace your stock cat with an aftermarket cat such as from Magnaflow, Random Technology, or Catco.

Also, Flowmasters sound nice, but they flow horribly and they rust quickly. I would recommend something else, such as Magnaflow's new 3" thirdgen exhaust, or something from Hooker.
I live in michigan, which does not have state emission laws. But since my camaro is not stock and has a 1974 engine in it the cops don't really care. I have talked to them about my car. Since it is a "hot rod'/"street machine" in there eyes they told me its not a problem. (I go to car meets every friday and saturday where at least 5-10 pro street cars show up and yes they drive them on the weekend too)
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 12:36 PM
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Engine: 355 TPI siamesed runners
Transmission: Tremec T56
Axle/Gears: 12-Bolt 3.73
Re: Cat Delete?

According to SEMA, there are several bills being introduced in Michigan that might change to them doing emissions testing. Good luck. You dont have to remove emissions devices to make power, as we in California have shown.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 12:47 PM
  #9  
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From: Michigan
Car: 1986 Chevy Iroc-Z28
Engine: 1989 TPI 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt with 2.73 gears
Re: Cat Delete?

I know, but all that stuff was already removed when I bought the car. Yeah and those bills have been sitting idle since they were struck down in 2001, the state senate voted strongly agianst it.

But the state gov has way more pressing probs right now than spending more money for emission testing (like getting out of a 6 year ressesion). That and 50% of the cars in michigan would not be able to be on the road if those laws were passed and with no one having any money they wont be able to fix their cars...so the circle continues
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 12:58 PM
  #10  
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Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by jake150129

But the state gov has way more pressing probs right now than spending more money for emission testing (like getting out of a 6 year ressesion).
Here in Mass the inspection shops pay for the testing gear, and training, and licensing. State gets licensing fees. Inspection shops charge a flat rate for inspection, and they get that money.

Originally Posted by jake150129
That and 50% of the cars in michigan would not be able to be on the road if those laws were passed and with no one having any money they wont be able to fix their cars...so the circle continues
That is what the system is designed to do. Get junk off the roads so people will buy new, fuel efficient cars.

I won't bother commenting on how the UAW have destroyed Michigan's economy.

-- Joe
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 02:36 PM
  #11  
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From: Yelm,WA
Car: 1990 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 305 5.0 TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 Open Diff.
Re: Cat Delete?

i just took my cat off made it sound better and probably add a few hps but thats only cause mine was stock.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 05:40 PM
  #12  
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From: Michigan
Car: 1986 Chevy Iroc-Z28
Engine: 1989 TPI 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt with 2.73 gears
Re: Cat Delete?

SEMA ACTION NETWORK



Michigan Michigan Representative Decides Not to Move Forward With Bill to Ban Aftermarket Exhaust Systems


Michigan State Representative Rick Jones has alerted SEMA that he will no longer pursue, in its current form, legislation (H.B. 5543) to ban vehicles equipped with replacement exhaust systems that differ from the design specifications of the original muffler. H.B. 5543 would also have prohibited the sale and use of exhaust systems that exceed an 80-decibel limit at a distance of 50 feet.
In its place, Representative Jones is considering SEMA model legislation that provides for the testing of vehicle exhaust noise to a standard adopted by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) with an established noise limit of 95-decibels (SAE J1169). Under the SAE standard, a sound meter is placed 20 inches from the exhaust outlet at a 45 degree angle and the engine is revved to three quarters of maximum rated horsepower. The highest decibel reading is then recorded. To date, with the popular support of vehicle enthusiasts and related businesses, the model has been enacted in California, Washington State and Maine. This year, the SEMA model was introduced in Virginia.
Thanks to all the Michigan car clubs and councils, individual enthusiasts and members of the SEMA business community who worked so tirelessly to derail this bill. Thanks also to Representative Jones for listening to his constituents and for making the proper response.


This is all I found On SEMA Action Network website on michigan.
I have found nothing like a federal emission law for the whole country, As far as I can tell the epa cannot enforce emission laws they can create guidelines but it is up to the states to make the laws. This is concerning pre tier-1 cars (1996-or older) Someone chime in on this with posted materiel,

Last edited by Blue_Thunder; Aug 5, 2008 at 06:03 PM.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 06:03 PM
  #13  
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From: New York
Car: 1987 IROC
Engine: 350 Gm H.O
Transmission: 700r4 built
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Locker
Re: Cat Delete?

If you don't want to deal with removing the old cat, simply take the one you have now off, get a hammer and screw driver, and tap the internals out and put it back in. You don't have to worry about inspection, and you get the sound you want.
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 08:19 PM
  #14  
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From: Michigan
Car: 1986 Chevy Iroc-Z28
Engine: 1989 TPI 350
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt with 2.73 gears
Re: Cat Delete?

This is what I have found


UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460
ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET
UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460
March 13, 1991
OFFICE OF AIR AND RADIATION
Pursuant to frequent requests for information received by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) regarding the legality and effects of engine switching, this document will summarize federal law
and policy pertaining to this matter, and will discuss other related issues.
A. Federal Law
The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any person from
knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and
delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section by a
manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B) of the Act
prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing, any part or
component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a
principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, and where the person
knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or is being installed for
such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section is $2,500.
EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine is
removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding "engine
switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA
(Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the Federal Test
Procedure would be necessary to make this determination.
2
A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified" (approved)
by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer submits an
application for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to manufacture prior to
production. The application includes design requirements for all emission related parts, engine
calibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine (in heavy-duty vehicles), or
engine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then "certifies" each acceptable design for use,
in vehicles of the upcoming model year.
For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer.
For heavy-duty vehicles, the resulting vehicle must contain a heavy-duty engine which is identical to a
certified configura- tion of a heavy-duty engine of the same model year or newer as the year of the
installed engine. Under no circumstances, however, may a heavy-duty engine ever be installed in a
light-duty vehicle.
The most common engine replacement involves replacing a gasoline engine in a light-duty vehicle with
another gasoline engine. Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however, involves
diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline engine.
Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis configuration
is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the chassis. If the vehicle
chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel engines(as is common), such a
conversion could be done legally.
Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built
engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this
country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought
enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing
illegal engine switches.
It should be noted that while EPA's policy allows engine switches as long as the resulting vehicle
matches exactly to anv certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis, there are
some substantial practical limitations to performing such a replacement. Vehicle chassis and engine
designs of one vehicle manufacturer are very distinct from those of another, such that it is generally not
possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have it match up to a certified
3
configuration. Therefore, practical considerations will generally limit engine switches to installation of
another engine which was certified to be used in that same make and model (or a "twin" of that make
and model, e.g., Pontiac Grand Am and Oldsmobile Calais). In addition, converting a vehicle into a
different certified configuration is likely to be very difficult, and the cost may prove prohibitive.
B. State Laws
Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws
specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using
provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state, the
state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or local
antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that area, to
determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established policies for
vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine
switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly
recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State
or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties
into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour.../engswitch.pdf

But by this definition then anyone who swaps a engine block from a truck or another vehicle like mine (1974 cmj 350) is breaking the law. That means anyone who has found a 454 block from a truck and put it in there fbody has now broken the law. So how do we as gearheads interprit this law?
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 08:24 PM
  #15  
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From: SALEM, NH
Car: '88 Formula
Engine: LC9
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.89 9"
Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by jake150129

But by this definition then anyone who swaps a engine block from a truck or another vehicle like mine (1974 cmj 350) is breaking the law. That means anyone who has found a 454 block from a truck and put it in there fbody has now broken the law. So how do we as gearheads interprit this law?
[/FONT]
Don't put 454's in fbody's
Don't remove your cats.

If I can go 11s and pass emissions so should you.

Forget me, I was talking to a guy with a '96 corvette the other day that passes California emissions, EVERYTHING is carb EO approved and the car does 10.3 in the 1/4.. IMO, unless your going faster than him you shouldn't be removing emissions from your car.


-- Joe
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Old Aug 5, 2008 | 08:39 PM
  #16  
Simply-305's Avatar
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From: New Jersey
Car: 1987 camaro RS/Z28 clone
Engine: 305 bored .030 over
Transmission: 700r4 slippin its way home
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.43 gear
Re: Cat Delete?

Originally Posted by anesthes
Don't put 454's in fbody's
Don't remove your cats.

If I can go 11s and pass emissions so should you.

Forget me, I was talking to a guy with a '96 corvette the other day that passes California emissions, EVERYTHING is carb EO approved and the car does 10.3 in the 1/4.. IMO, unless your going faster than him you shouldn't be removing emissions from your car.


-- Joe




unless you are looking to run 10s or single digit 1/4 mile times . there is no need for you to remove your cat.

they only thing you will do is make your car sound more raspy and an annoying loud...

the gains.. IF there is any is near nothing... plus.. i dont know how it is in other states but here in nj. you have to re-inspect your veh every 2 years... so if this applies to you.. (having to re-inspect your car every year or other)

then you will have to go through to trouble of re-installing your cat to pass emissions. granted there is ways to pass emissions without a cat. but i dont know them.. anyway, keep the air you breathe just a microscopic bit cleaner. by keeping that cat in there and stop worrying about your .1 hp that you might get ...

hook it up with some heads, a cam, lighten the car up... .. lightening the car up will no only make your car faster. but will save you some gas
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