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Im back in the 3rd gen game. Ive had 4 Camaro's and a TA. I see now quite a few people running true duals. Back when I got out of it, I talked to a bunch of people that said I would be just as well off running the normal 3" single. Because running true duals there would be alot of bends. Some of which would be close to 90 degrees. They said with these bends the true duals wouldnt flow well at all. My 86 Camaro, ran a 12.30's through the single 3", with a Flowmaster Y pipe and truck muffler. Has anyone actually done a good comparison between the two. With no other mods being done ?
i thought true duals, were nearly impossible on our third gens.
That was the last I heard too, and if you could get them on there they were so bent up they wouldnt do any good. I remember somewhere had a 4" single pipe too. Any ideas who/where that was ? Its been over 10 years since I messed with a 3rd gen. Uncapped my car went from 12.30's to 11.80s. So the single 3" was blocking it up quite a bit. I just dont want to go through the trouble and expense of putting on true duals, and them do no good. Thanks for the input guys
Its my opinion that a properly designed y pipe will support all the horsepower you will ever need on the street. No sense in going with duals and dealing with the headaches and hassles.
I agree. The problem with that is I run through the mufflers at the track as well. So I need the best I can get. Like I said before. I lost a half a second by running a single 3" vs. straight headers.
on a healthy motor you would probably see that difference with ANY exhaust vs. no exhaust.duals can be done by a skilled exhaust shop with a bender, i have 2 friends with it done.cant compare it though as the cars had no exhaust to start with.
Not impossible, just dificult. The bends aren't too bad as long as you don't go too big with the tube. Here are some shots of my 2.5" through a couple of thrush glass packs. http://s794.photobucket.com/albums/yy226/cvz6977/
on a healthy motor you would probably see that difference with ANY exhaust vs. no exhaust.duals can be done by a skilled exhaust shop with a bender, i have 2 friends with it done.cant compare it though as the cars had no exhaust to start with.
Actually, according to the pros, a 100% properly designed exhaust will make MORE power than open exhaust will. I wish I could remember the magazine that did the test, but they lost almost 20hp open headers vs a complete exhaust with regular mufflers.
That should be true especially with headers designed right with scavanging in mind. Tuned exhuast is harder to do with the limited space that we have though. A friend of mine has a book for tuning the exhuast pulses to a certain RPM range but I'm not that far ahead with my car so I'm just going to deal with the Hedman headers that I have right now.
That was the last I heard too, and if you could get them on there they were so bent up they wouldnt do any good. I remember somewhere had a 4" single pipe too. Any ideas who/where that was ? Its been over 10 years since I messed with a 3rd gen. Uncapped my car went from 12.30's to 11.80s. So the single 3" was blocking it up quite a bit. I just dont want to go through the trouble and expense of putting on true duals, and them do no good. Thanks for the input guys
do a search of mw66nova, he's done both duals and single 4"
Not impossible, just dificult. The bends aren't too bad as long as you don't go too big with the tube. Here are some shots of my 2.5" through a couple of thrush glass packs. http://s794.photobucket.com/albums/yy226/cvz6977/
what a fun debate....one that has been beat into the ground further than just about anything on tgo. yes, duals are possible, especially if you take your time and mod the transmission crossmember, or not the subframe for the exhaust to make it's way around the transmission without going below the plane of the subframe, which is why people struggle with clearance.
as far as one over the other, it's hard to say based on the info given. if you have an 11.8x car then i'd say you would benefit from going to a single 3" to a true dual 2.5" system, but i also think you'd gain some serious number just going to a really well done y-pipe and a single 4".
what are you running for headers? if you're planning to do any of this, i hope you've budgeted longtubes if you don't have them yet, because you're just spittin' in the wind if you are planning to keep shorties.
couple of pics:
hedman longtubes, dual 2.5" pipes into a flowmaster y-collector, single 3.5" dynatech splitflow muffler:
back on the ground:
Hawk's ls1 swap headers, dual 3", flowmaster y-collector into a single 4":
look into the benefits of crossover pipes, and y-collectors with torque tubes. i believe the single 4" will yeild better results than a dual system as long as the y-pipe looks like what i've posted. there is a scavenging effect created much like the scavenging effects at the collector on the headers.
i believe the single 4" will yeild better results than a dual system
That was my original plan. I remember seeing in the back of Super Chevy or something a 4" cat-back. Someone still sell those or is custom the only way to go now ? Im starting to remember why I went to a .......Dont kill me please... fox body mustang. lmao
Exactly. I talked to my exhaust guy(My dads buddy). He said he could make me a 4" single with a Y pipe for 100 and me buy the muffler. He made the X pipe for my Mustang for 100 bucks too, and its flawless.
I've had the 4" and the true duals on my car, but made a number of changes apart from the exhaust to pick up more power with the true duals. The 4" actually has more area and would flow better if Mufflex offered a better muffler option with their kit. Otherwise ground clearance was not bad, the system fit very well.
True duals sound awesome. But the way our cars are configured underneath, it is difficult to route true duals from long-tubes without ground clearance issues. But with long tubes, ground clearance is poor anyway.
If you tune an engine for a full exhaust and just drop it off and run it on the dyno, especially on a fuel-injected engine, you might loose power until you do some tuning. Carburetors can better compensate for major system changes, but it depends a lot on your configuration and tune as to weather running open headers will gain or loose power.
i have a SINGLE 3" Flowmaster system on my 5.7L L98, and i don't think it sounds like modded ricers.
mebbe the cam, headers, intake, etc has something to do with it.
sorry, took the video at night, no picture at all, forgot to get a flashlight, was in such a rush to reply to this. mebbe later i'll update it with a daytime video.
i don't mean a single sounds bad, i even heard a neon that i think sounded pretty mean, i just meant it's a little diffrent sound between one pipe or two.
I've had the 4" and the true duals on my car, but made a number of changes apart from the exhaust to pick up more power with the true duals. The 4" actually has more area and would flow better if Mufflex offered a better muffler option with their kit. Otherwise ground clearance was not bad, the system fit very well.
True duals sound awesome. But the way our cars are configured underneath, it is difficult to route true duals from long-tubes without ground clearance issues. But with long tubes, ground clearance is poor anyway.
If you tune an engine for a full exhaust and just drop it off and run it on the dyno, especially on a fuel-injected engine, you might loose power until you do some tuning. Carburetors can better compensate for major system changes, but it depends a lot on your configuration and tune as to weather running open headers will gain or loose power.
How does a carb better compensate for freer flowing exhaust?
Someone said that single exhaust sounds like modded ricers? insane. No way. Ricers sound that way because 4 cylinder engines, 6 cylinder engines, 8 cylinder engines etc all sound different.
I didn't mean any 4 banger with a crap muffler, I meant a single exhaust on a built import can sound mean, but it's still a different sound,porshe and lambo's have v8's and v12's just a different sound.I wasent tryin to be a juice bag.
Nah j/k. I understand what you mean now by your explanation. Cool man. I dont listen to any ricers but I know they dont sound like v8's. Because only v8's can sound like v8's
what a fun debate....one that has been beat into the ground further than just about anything on tgo. yes, duals are possible, especially if you take your time and mod the transmission crossmember, or not the subframe for the exhaust to make it's way around the transmission without going below the plane of the subframe, which is why people struggle with clearance.
as far as one over the other, it's hard to say based on the info given. if you have an 11.8x car then i'd say you would benefit from going to a single 3" to a true dual 2.5" system, but i also think you'd gain some serious number just going to a really well done y-pipe and a single 4".
what are you running for headers? if you're planning to do any of this, i hope you've budgeted longtubes if you don't have them yet, because you're just spittin' in the wind if you are planning to keep shorties.
couple of pics:
hedman longtubes, dual 2.5" pipes into a flowmaster y-collector, single 3.5" dynatech splitflow muffler:
back on the ground:
Hawk's ls1 swap headers, dual 3", flowmaster y-collector into a single 4":
back on the ground:
Heyy Heyy, on the first picture What cross Member is that!?? Has anyone made the Hooker Header Cross Member for the T56 work for the T5's??
09-23-2009, 11:13 AM
