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Hey guys just need some recommendations. I’m looking to buy some headers that will fit my vehicle. I have the 5.0 TPI engine. I have the Magnaflow 3 inch exhaust installed right now. Not worried about emissions, or the smog lines. Thanks!
What is your budget? You could do any of the normal shorty header kits from headman or hooker. If you have deeper pockets, I would go with Hookers new blackheart SBC longtube headers. Way more header than you need for your current combo but will support a larger engine and more power down the road.
Will I run into clearance issues with those? Also are those compatible with LS engines? Because I do plan on throwing in an LS engine one day, well eventually lol.
Clearance should be fine, as the higher cost of entry for these headers ensure a decent fit. Any header for a small block chevy is not compatible with an LS. You will need different headers for an LS swap.
The Hooker Blackheart and Hooker RacingHeart branded products are one in the same and are both made using the same components, materials and build methods.
The Hooker BlackHeart would be my choice as well.
And FWIW, they are part of the Hooker dual exhaust system too. That is to say, if you choose to go full duals in the future (via Hooker) that dual exhaust will bolt up to their LS swap headers.
The Hooker Blackheart and Hooker RacingHeart branded products are one in the same and are both made using the same components, materials and build methods.
Curious toddoky, why the re-branding? Is that just marketing?
Thanks for that.
Looking forward to the day when I'll have my hands on the entire system (if that day ever comes considering the state of affairs right now!).
Thanks for all the input guys. I did see the whole exhaust set up on there. It looks pretty awesome! Would you choose that over the Borla exhaust system?
I'm not entirely familiar with the Borla system although I understand it to be a single over the axle with one muffler. Or is there another?
What attracts me to the Hooker design is that it's headers to tailpipe with no fabricating (depending on the transmission crossmember used). And with dual pipes and mufflers, it has the capacity for higher power applications.
I'm not entirely familiar with the Borla system although I understand it to be a single over the axle with one muffler. Or is there another?
What attracts me to the Hooker design is that it's headers to tailpipe with no fabricating (depending on the transmission crossmember used). And with dual pipes and mufflers, it has the capacity for higher power applications.
This. Hooker/Holley have recently stwpped up their game with platform specific LS/LT swap kits. Everything they make is top notch.
This. Hooker/Holley have recently stwpped up their game with platform specific LS/LT swap kits. Everything they make is top notch.
What I appreciate the most is that we here at 3rd Gen have been fortunate enough to have direct contact with toddoky. He's seems to be the hands on engineer who has been developing this platform and his input has been immeasurable. For that reason alone this Hooker system gets my vote.
That it appears to be top drawer doesn't hurt either.
What I appreciate the most is that we here at 3rd Gen have been fortunate enough to have direct contact with toddoky. He's seems to be the hands on engineer who has been developing this platform and his input has immeasurable. For that reason alone this Hooker system gets my vote.
That it appears to be top drawer doesn't hurt either.
Thanks for noticing the effort skinny z...I’ve been designing engine swap systems at Holley for the past 10 years and don’t see the end in sight yet. I’m here to provide information to anyone who wants it.
Thanks for noticing the effort skinny z...I’ve been designing engine swap systems at Holley for the past 10 years and don’t see the end in sight yet. I’m here to provide information to anyone who wants it.
Just make a dual 3" system for those who dont run stock LS motors 😉.
Thanks for noticing the effort skinny z...I’ve been designing engine swap systems at Holley for the past 10 years and don’t see the end in sight yet. I’m here to provide information to anyone who wants it.
Credit where credit's due toddoky.
Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
Just make a dual 3" system for those who dont run stock LS motors 😉.
That's like packing 10 lbs of ***** into a 5 lb bag! It's been done but it isn't easy!
That's a lot of flow capacity.
So I get confused pretty easily by all the different parts and fitments lol. My question though, if I wanted the long tube headers by Hooker. Which ones would I get at the moment? I have the stock TPI 5.0. But with the Magaflow 3 inch setup. Do I need a 3 inch collector, since it’s 3 inch?
Just make a dual 3" system for those who dont run stock LS motors 😉.
I would welcome that opportunity if management made the decision to do so. It would have to be approached differently than is has in the past as all of the off-the-shelf 3” systems available hang far too low under the car for my sensibilities.
So I get confused pretty easily by all the different parts and fitments lol. My question though, if I wanted the long tube headers by Hooker. Which ones would I get at the moment? I have the stock TPI 5.0. But with the Magaflow 3 inch setup. Do I need a 3 inch collector, since it’s 3 inch?
1-5/8” for sure if you plan on just sticking with the stock 5.0 engine. All the Hooker Blackheart headers have 3” collectors, so there’s no choice to be made there.
You'll need to adapt the headers to your existing single 3" . That'll mean a custom y-pipe. This will be the case no matter what headers you choose unless you get the complete BlackHeart duals. Then it's a bolt in deal.
Me too. Although next season will probably be with the same system I have now with Hedman long/mid length headers and a Flowmaster 3" cat back. Racing that setup will mean cut-outs though as the single muffler at the back does zero for performance.
Yeah, my plan is to adapt the speed engineering 4th gen dual 3" kit. Just need to stop being lazy and order it already.
Better off with a single 3 or 4 ,or custom My fab guy worked on 2 kits on 2 different cars that some one bought to do exactly what you want. Ended up costing the customer more than if he just started from scratch or did a big single in stainless.
Better off with a single 3 or 4 ,or custom My fab guy worked on 2 kits on 2 different cars that some one bought to do exactly what you want. Ended up costing the customer more than if he just started from scratch or did a big single in stainless.
I struggle with the decision too. Single 3" will be way to small. I like the idea of the mufflex 4" because its simple. Either way I will have to fab up a y-pipe. Maybe hawks Y-pipe would get me close. (not designed for other headers).
I would welcome that opportunity if management made the decision to do so. It would have to be approached differently than is has in the past as all of the off-the-shelf 3” systems available hang far too low under the car for my sensibilities.
Thats why I went oval around the trans crossmember in 3 then to a single round 4. The work and cost to do a dual 3 inch right on a thirdgen is so cost prohibitive it isnt worth it. I guess oval 3 inch it can be done, but in stainless the cost is astronomical. 4 inch mid will handle just about anything anyway.
I struggle with the decision too. Single 3" will be way to small. I like the idea of the mufflex 4" because its simple. Either way I will have to fab up a y-pipe. Maybe hawks Y-pipe would get me close. (not designed for other headers).
Why what is your build that a 3 inch is too small? Yes you are right a Mufflex 4 is so simple. Dual 3 inch on a 3rd gen is for tent pitchers, that's about it.Which y pipe you looking at? The one for super comps? I have a 2.5 y off a stainless works kit.
Why what is your build that a 3 inch is too small? Yes you are right a Mufflex 4 is so simple. Dual 3 inch on a 3rd gen is for tent pitchers, that's about it.Which y pipe you looking at? The one for super comps? I have a 2.5 y off a stainless works kit.
377 LSX with Mamo Heads, Mamo intake and cam. Should make 600+ hp at the crank.
Yeah, my plan is to adapt the speed engineering 4th gen dual 3" kit.
Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
Single 3" will be way to small... Either way I will have to fab up a y-pipe...
Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
377 LSX with Mamo Heads, Mamo intake and cam. Should make 600+ hp at the crank.
If you're buying the Hooker Headers it only makes sense to get their complete exhaust if you haven't already. But if you have headers and are looking for duals and want to adapt the Speed Engineering kit then, yes, a y-pipe will be needed. That said, the y-pipe doesn't need to be stainless steel. Mild steel would work and the cost would considerably less. I'd venture a guess and say less half the cost. MIG vs TIG. Cheaper raw materials. I'll guess further and say that the difference in cost between the Speed Engineering duals and the Hooker is right around the cost of the custom made pipe.
And at 600 HP to the crank, the exhaust is everything. Unless you want the undersized exhaust and single muffler to start limiting performance, you need the duals or a large single with a high capacity (read that as loud) muffler.
If you're buying the Hooker Headers it only makes sense to get their complete exhaust if you haven't already. But if you have headers and are looking for duals and want to adapt the Speed Engineering kit then, yes, a y-pipe will be needed. That said, the y-pipe doesn't need to be stainless steel. Mild steel would work and the cost would considerably less. I'd venture a guess and say less half the cost. MIG vs TIG. Cheaper raw materials. I'll guess further and say that the difference in cost between the Speed Engineering duals and the Hooker is right around the cost of the custom made pipe.
And at 600 HP to the crank, the exhaust is everything. Unless you want the undersized exhaust and single muffler to start limiting performance, you need the duals or a large single with a high capacity (read that as loud) muffler.
The blackheart dual is a touch too small as well and Todkey recommends using it on 450rwp or less systems. I am not worried about the fab costs. I just need to decide between mufflex and hawks y-pipe, or the speed duals with fab work. Either one is going to be brain splitting loud.
The blackheart dual is a touch too small as well and Todkey recommends using it on 450rwp or less systems.
I seem to recall reading that spec by toddoky but I can't find it. I'd like to know how he arrived at that number. That said, that's arguably 550 HP at the crank.
Theory suggests that there has to be enough flow capacity so as to provide 2.2 CFM per HP produced at the flywheel. Less than that and output starts to become limited. Now we're only talking small percentages here until you reach a point, such as in my case with a single 3" and Flowmaster cork that has < 300 CFM, that it starts to have a real impact. I demonstrated that at the 1/8 mile where opening a cutout at the turn before the muffler yielded another one and a half MPH trap speed. That's about 15 RWHP.
But if you have what it takes for dual 3" all the way then that's the way to go. As for ear-splitting, at least the pair of mufflers will temper that somewhat as opposed to a single 4". THAT would be loud.
I seem to recall reading that spec by toddoky but I can't find it. I'd like to know how he arrived at that number. That said, that's arguably 550 HP at the crank.
Theory suggests that there has to be enough flow capacity so as to provide 2.2 CFM per HP produced at the flywheel. Less than that and output starts to become limited. Now we're only talking small percentages here until you reach a point, such as in my case with a single 3" and Flowmaster cork that has < 300 CFM, that it starts to have a real impact. I demonstrated that at the 1/8 mile where opening a cutout at the turn before the muffler yielded another one and a half MPH trap speed. That's about 15 RWHP.
But if you have what it takes for dual 3" all the way then that's the way to go. As for ear-splitting, at least the pair of mufflers will temper that somewhat as opposed to a single 4". THAT would be loud.
3 inch is good to around 450-500rwhp. But it's not like you are losing hundreds of hp if you are over that. It's a round about generalization number to get people in the ballpark. 4 inch isnt loud. I did it with a Spintech 364sc. 4 inch in. Dual 3 inch out hidden tips.
Short idle video. My mustang with duals is louder than this car. I think the 4 inch with the straight through magnaflow single pipe is obnoxiously loud. Those single pipe 4 inch systems I'd stay away from.
3 inch is good to around 450-500rwhp. But it's not like you are losing hundreds of hp if you are over that. It's a round about generalization number to get people in the ballpark. 4 inch isnt loud. I did it with a Spintech 364sc. 4 inch in. Dual 3 inch out hidden tips.
At around 350 rwhp I've shown that a single 3", namely the muffler, is definitely a restriction and the maximum output to the rear wheels in my car was trimmed. At 450 rwhp, the wheezy Flowmaster 40 series with a single 3" in and out, would be a terrible fit. Maybe a Borla or Spintech straight through design would work.
You're right in that the CFM spec is to get people in the ballpark and it's a percentage loss. Greater engine output equals greater losses.
Loud is relative and I can't say I've been beside enough 4" equipped cars to be able to comment on it other than to say, some people point out that their systems are too loud for there tastes.
Nice setup on your car by the way. I'd be happy with it for sure as my current and future output levels wouldn't overwhelm what you have. With any luck I'll be an honest 450-475 CHP (~ 380 rwhp) if the 383 comes together.
I have heard the sinister single 4 and I think it's a bit loud l, like obnoxiously loud. Maybe the crossflow design may be where you want to be. Spintech makes so many different ins and out sizes. They are made to order ss. Those straight through singles, yes they are really loud. But hey if you want something simple and easy to install and that works that may be the ticket. Mufflex makes good stuff.
I miss the days of having enough ground clearance to dump a couple of 3" duals with "Turbo" mufflers before the axle. My 68 Chevelle had that advantage. Although the threat of being poisoned by CO was always there !!
I seem to recall reading that spec by toddoky but I can't find it. I'd like to know how he arrived at that number. That said, that's arguably 550 HP at the crank.
Theory suggests that there has to be enough flow capacity so as to provide 2.2 CFM per HP produced at the flywheel. Less than that and output starts to become limited. Now we're only talking small percentages here until you reach a point, such as in my case with a single 3" and Flowmaster cork that has < 300 CFM, that it starts to have a real impact. I demonstrated that at the 1/8 mile where opening a cutout at the turn before the muffler yielded another one and a half MPH trap speed. That's about 15 RWHP.
But if you have what it takes for dual 3" all the way then that's the way to go. As for ear-splitting, at least the pair of mufflers will temper that somewhat as opposed to a single 4". THAT would be loud.
Yes skinny z, that number is just a rough estimate collected through empirical experience related to the development work I done over the last 22-23 years. As you noted, the more output you put through it, the higher the percentage loss would be past that 450HP reference threshold. The design focus of the Hooker Blackheart 3rd and 4th Gen dual exhaust systems was to create them to provide the maximum possible flow in a package that would provide the absolutely best ground clearance available to the user, so as to avoid the clearance compromises that were witnessed to be associated with the dual 3" systems that were on the market (I ordered competitive kits in and test fit them on cars as part of the development effort. Their ground clearance was horrible). In short, they were optimized for use on lowered F-body cars, with stock to medium output engines, that are intended to be operated primarily in street-use or autocross situations. You can find other bolt-on exhaust systems that provide more maximum flow potential for sure, but you won't find any that provide the same level of flow that the Hooker Blackheart systems do while also providing the same level of ground clearance and component quality that comes with them. You also won't find another system that is out-of-the box compatible with the Hooker Blackheart 3rd-Gen transmission crossmember and LS and SB headers. I believe at the end of the day that is where the real value of the Hooker Blackheart components lay, which is their inter-compatibility with one another.
07-16-2020, 10:34 AM
