Hi Guys, im tired of having to take my parts or projects to shops and have them weld them for me.

i have never welded in my life, and the only way i can learn is if i buy a machine and basically self teach. I am a business professional so taking classes is not something i can do. Cars are a hobby and when i have down time, taking things to shops is not time efficient.

i wanted to know what mig welding machine i should purchase. I have seen a "complete package" in summit catalog, part# LCN-K2185-1

i dont plan on being a professional at this or selling things. but i do plan on welding various parts on car or other projects. Just so you know, im not new to cars or engines. i know my way around a car and automotive knowledge, fabricating metal happened to be not something i am familiar with however.

so here are my questions:

what do you recommend as far as what machine to buy?

what advice can anyone give me when i practice?

what are the do's and do not's?

Is there any literature i should read online?

thanks guys.

 

i would also like to state, the thickest material i would be welding, would be standard exhaust tubing, and maybe a few household brackets here and there.

i've been searching around for info, and im not sure if a Flux core or gas mig would be what i need. i see some good deals on ebay going on right now.

 

i'm interested as well...

 

buy the biggest home shop type machine you can find or afford, either 110v or 220v with a gas kit. look at the machines made by the people that make welders, miller, hobart, lincoln, etc. my pick would be miller.

 

i rarely weld so i went to harbor freight and bought the $100 mig unit and a "how to weld" manual. i wouldnt use it to make a living but it works fine for small things.

 

and


I agree, sorta…

In a lot of applications the better 110V migs are really very good… the better ones are more capable then the lesser 220V machines. That being said, I think the choice is simple. I would stick with the big names just because the lesser known machines are really not that much cheaper and vs the proven ones (and this is coming from someone that is cheap as dirt and won’t spend money unless there is a damned good reason). I’d base my choice on what power is available where you’re going to use it. I’ve got a 110v Hobart which at the time I bought it was my only choice power wise, but now I’ve got a better, high amp 220v circuit and that is the main reason that I’d like a 220v welder.

The top 3 choices are Miller, Hobart and Lincoln (build quality/features wise, probably in that order. Miller first…). I don’t like the Lincoln machines, they tend to have a nice power supply but their wire feed and the parts that you touch (gun…) feel downright primitive compared to the other 2. Miller and Hobart are owned by the same co, and a lot of the parts are the same/interchange. The miller usually has more features, and in the smaller machines they tend to get in the way.

For the small, entry level migs my first choice would be a Hobart Handler (135 or 140 for 110v, 175 or 180 for the 220, they just renamed their machines in the last year, so the 135 became the 140…). The comparable millers tend to run a bit more $ and are not nearly as intuitive to use, mainly because their wire speed tracking curve is more extreme (the Lincolns don’t do it at all, the Hobarts are a happy middle ground).

If you were going to spend money on the next bigger class machine, the Miller 200, 250 and 251 are MUCH nicer then the hobarts in the same class, but of course, something like a 251 is WAY in excess of what hobbyists really need (hell, it’s more then what a most shops need).



Get in closer then you think you need to be and don’t be afraid of the weld. Wear proper safety equipment, don’t do like they do on TV (close eyes and pull the trigger not wearing gloves…). Even if you don’t care about your own safety, your welds will be much prettier if you aren’t fidgeting because of hot sparks bouncing off of your hands…



The big 3 have all sorts of good stuff online. Hobart probably has the best forum and Lincoln probably has the best articles.

 

My first welder was a Century something or other, 110V cheapy when MIGS were first becoming popular for home use, had provision for gas hook up and it got me by for alot of yrs. Next bought a Miller 135 and IMO that's about perfect for a hobbist and the projects your talking about doing. 110V so you dont need a speacial circuit to run the welder, gas sheilded and flux. It costs more to get set-up to use for gas sheilded, but IMO is the only way to go. The flux burns soo much hotter and leaves too much spatter since it's essentially "ARC" welding. There are certain applications where the FLUX core will be better than the MIG wire (old rusty metal trailer/truck frames), but so long as you clean the material your welding on the sheilded wire will produce and "easier" to learn and better looking weld than FLUX core.

I just traded my Miller for a Hobart 170 220V. I've been needing the bigger welder for quite some time and finally got a deal I could'nt pass so I made the jump. It's nice being able to weld upto 1/4" steel since as you progress so will your projects. Eventually the Miller 210 or 250 is my dream machine since I have no idea how to TIG, I like the spool capacity for the aluminum and fact I can have Argon and CO mix plumbed into the welder at the same time and dont have to money around switching tanks to weld aluminum. WE had one at our shop (210) that we repaired aluminum trialers with and it was a great welder but too much for a hobbiest.

 

For what you want to do anything more then a 100-135 amp wire feed is overkill. Look at the lincoln SP135+ or you may be able to find a good deal on a used SP100. The Millermatic 135 is also a good machine, just not worth the extra $ over the lincoln. I have no experience with Hobarts.

Make sure you get a good helmet. Preferably an adjustable auto darkening. If you don't get the auto dark at least change the standard filter lens from the shade 10 green lens to a shade 9 gold. Biggest thing to remember is if you can't see you can't weld.

Next, get yourself a book and some cheap sheetmetal. Practice, practice, practice. All the tips and tricks in the world won't help you until you have hands-on expeience.

 

you want to use gas. the flux core is alright but there is alot of slag and its not as clean as a weld. i'm not an expert but i love the gas like i said it is much cleaner(it doesn't have much splatter)

 

I am new to all this myself. Bought a unit from harbor freight because didn't know any better, but didn't have a chance to use it yet. The way I see it there are two things you have to look at: amps (how my power it can deliver) and duty cycle (how much it works vs. how much it rests). HF unit has a duty cycle of something like 15% at full power, 75A. If I was to do it over again, definitely go with big names mentioned above.

Hopefully that thing will be enough for me to learn and then I'll buy something more decent.

I found a book on Amazon (I think), "Welding Essentials" by Galvery and Marlow. Very good read and highly recommend for someone who wants to know what they are getting into.

 

If you get good at it a good flux core (as in NOT –GS) will make some very nice welds in base metals thicker then about 3/32”, and it’s the only way to fly if you need to weld upside down, someplace drafty/dirty, when your bottle runs short…

OTOH, I wouldn’t buy a welder that couldn’t do both.

Again, I’d stay away from the lincolns, something like the SP135… I use one all the time (a friend of mine has an SP135+); every time I do I miss my Hobart. It’s got a good power supply but the wire feed, gun… suck compared to the Hobart or Miller. Actually, the gun doesn’t “feel” that bad, but I’ve had real problems with the Lincoln parts doing weird stuff, like the tips just disappearing… you’re welding along and half of your copper tip is just gone, probably somewhere in the weld. Again, the wire feed sucks.

 

unlike cross fire i hate the hobarts and like the lincolns and millers. lot of it is personal preferance, all 3 make pretty good stuff.

 

huh, interesting, what do you hate about the hobarts?

The only thing that i can think of that the Lincoln SP welders and the Miller have in common and that is at all different between the Miller and Hobart (made by the same co, most of the parts are the same, hell, many of the parts on a Hobart have a miller logo, like my mig gun has a miller logo) is the infinitely variable power supply settings, which I actually think REALLY confuse things when I’m trying to teach someone new to weld and someone that knows what they’re doing won’t care, they will most likely just set it someplace in about the right range and adjust for it with gun technique, not changing the setting for days…

 

I agree, any of the three would work well for a beginner. I used a little Lincoln 100 for a few months and I liked it. Just not big enough for the bigger projects. When it was time to buy one last fall I went with the Hobart 180 and I am very happy with it.

90% of people will recommend what they have themselves.

A good book is The Procedure Handbook Of Arc Welding that you should be able to pick up at a welding supply store.

 

Lots of good info on welder selection and "how to" stuff, direct from a couple of the main manufacturers:

http://www.millerwelds.com

http://www.lincolnelectric.com

After using many brands/types of welders through the years, I prefer "blue".

 

Haven't used Hobarts. Have used the red and blue though. If I had the money to buy more I'd probably go with the Miller, but as I got a good deal on my Lincoln, that's what I use.

Either work well.

 

You might want to look into a Thermal Arc Fabricator 130.

I use a lincoln 255 and a Thermal Arc 400 at work. Both machines work well in the heavy industrial application we do.

Best thing you can do now is go shopping. Look at the the ones that have been mentioned here and bring one home. It doesn't matter which one you get really since any of them are going to be a step up from nothing. Then get a good helmet, some scrap metal and burn it up.

 

For that matter, test drive a few of them, many welding shops will have them sitting around and let you burn some steel with them. and I'd bet that there's someone local, a friend, f-body member... that has at least a lincoln or one of the others that could let you try theirs out or go with you to tinker with some of the others.

When it comes down to it, us going back and forth about blue, red or tan (off blue ;-) ) is just discussing the finer points of them. Yea, I don’t like the SP135, but it’s much better then no welder, any of the no name welders or even some of the lesser, strictly homeowner models out there. I’ve welded a roll cage, custom headers and manifolds, some heavy castings, custom brackets, and even some ½” plate with one and it worked fine… I just didn’t like it as much as blue or tan (well, and I wasted a whole day on the wire feed when I used one to do the 6pt in my brother’s car, but a lot of that was because the owner’s brother really had it assembled wrong and some of the parts had some casting flash on them that prevented them from grabbing the wire right).

 

I just purchased a mig. I normally use a Miller 175 at the shop but I wanted another for around the house. The first thing that I would suggest is that you go to your local welding dealer because you're gonna look like a jerk when you ask him advice on your welder that came from a mail order house. His welder may be a little more expensive but he'll make up for it in the long run. With that in mind My shop recomended a Lincoln 135 pro-series. This uses 115 volts and is a 20% duty cycle (2 minutes of continuous welding in 10 minutes time frame) it'll do 5/16 material. For another hundred you can buy the 175, and it's money well spent, but... how many 220 outlets do you have around the house?, or your buddies house, who will no doubt want you to weld up his junk once he finds out you own a welder. The 220 volt cord will run about $150 for roughly 70feet
as well. The 115 on the other hand can use a fairly stout commercial extension cord and a 20 amp breaker.
For whatever reason, my dealer stocked Hobarts, but told me to buy the Lincoln or Miller instead. He mentioned that he stocked them for the guy that went shopping at Home Depot and then wanted to compare prices. BTW, even though the stuff at Lowe's and Home Depot may say Lincoln, or Miller, it's different, built at a lower cost.
The 135 will also do aluminum (with argon) and alum wire, so it's a lot better than the 115 volt welders of 10-15 years ago.

 

I made the 220VAC cord for my plasma cutter it cost me about $60 for 11m but every thing does cost more over here.
I used a length of 4 strand of 12ga under ground wire.
It works great.
I have the lincoln 135 welder, it welds steel real good, but only does Al up to 3mm it might go a little thicker if I preheat and cut a filler grove in the metal.
When I got the plasma cutter I went 1 model above what I though I needed. I did it mainly for the duty cycle but has worked out well. The one I have can cut up to 7/8'' of steel, now I thought I would never use that, but I have cut up a lot of 1/2'' Al for a guy. The is the max thickness Al for me is 13mm.

 

Ok guys. Now that we've set him on a good path for a machine. Should we beat on him about hood and gas selection?

 

7/8 inch, what are you building? a battleship

 

7/8" is for hobbies. I'm torching up to 4" at work.

Oddly enough we have more welders then we have employees.

 

I got my plasma cutter becasue it will use 50Hz power, the 5minutes on 5minutes off duty cycle (2on 8off for a lot of the smaller ones) and it will cut 1/2'' steel clean off all day like nothing and it can cut up to 13mm Al good.

 

Plasma cutters are the bomb, When I first used one I thought "why own a torch".

 

Until you need to heat a piece of metal to bend it.
They don't work well for that.

 

Wow, lotsa opinions...

My only opinion is avoid the no-name ones that JCWhitney and Harbor Freight and swap meets are selling for $100-$200. Stick with a brand name (Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Century), and you'll be happy. (Supposedly Century makes the Sears/Craftsman and Campbell Hausfeld migs...) Plus, do you want to buy a few welders thru the years, or just buy one welder "for life"?

Anyway, you don't want the cheap ones because you need PARTS for the welder! What happens when your last tip is worn out, or your gun trigger jams? If you've got a no-name, you've gotta place an order to that no-name company or a mail-order catalog and hope they still make the part. If you've got a brand name, you just drive to the local welding shop. Or, what happens if the transformer takes a dump and the no-name only has a 90 day warranty? Will you find a local shop that'll repair it? (My welding shop repairs Lincoln Electric & Miller, I doubt they repair "Chicago Electric"!)

I'm a Lincoln Electric fan- that's because I've only used Lincoln Electric. I'd avoid that particular welder from Summit just b/c your money would be better spent on a Lincoln Electric MIG-PAK 10, which has more power. I have the LE Weld-Pak 100 (which comes only with flux core) with the gas conversion kit- the combination of WeldPak100+gasKit = MIG-PAK 10. I went that route b/c I was short on coin at the time. Flux core is okay for testing on scrap metal, but gas welding is much easier and cleaner (at least for me) and it's want you want to use on your car's thinner sheetmetal. Remember that if you want to weld right away with the gas, you'll need a bottle...

Home Depot carries Lincoln Electric, that's where I got mine from. Check in with your local welding store; they could recommend something you'd be happy with. Look around their store before you go believing everything they say, tho. If all they sell is Lincoln Electric, they're not gonna like Miller/Hobart, and vice-versa! They should also have a demo room off to the side.

You could check the classifieds for used brand name welders, too.

I found my welding book at Lowe's Home Improvement (and they had a cheaper price on my welder, so I had Home Depot do their beat-a-price guarantee), made by Haynes, the "Haynes Welding Manual". Awesome book, goes into each type of welding technology, what to look for when buying, techniques, safety, toos, etc, and only cost $12.

 

hi
i have purchase the lincoln 100 with gas conversion works awsome, however now i wish i bought the 175 220volt version for the extra power either way you cant go wrong
tips, i used to pull the wire now i push because i found i can control the puddle better. practice practice before you do the final weld!!!

 

Pushing the weld results in a prettier job over a wider seam, pulling will penetrate deeper for the same width of weld. On a thick material where I'm doing several passes I'll pull the first and push the rest

 

Drag slag.
Push gas.
When your FCAW welding it's best to drag the weld pool so the slag can float to the top and harden and not get mixed in with the metal.
When your runing gas for shealding you push the weld to keep it well shealded.
I can push Al a lot better than I can drag it, the weld is a lot cleaner too.
I don't think it matters a hole hell of a lot when you doing steel with gas shealded.

 

I used to have a Miller 185 mig and really liked it. I traded it for my 180SD tig welder and love it just as well but for quick jobs you don't need a tig. So recently I just purchased a Hobart 175 which is now the 180 and it works very well for the size of machine. Stay away from flux core and stay away from the cheap machines. Mig is much easier for someone learning. Check some of your local shops as I found the 175 setting on the shelf and bought if for about a hundred bucks cheaper than the new 180's just because they don't make it anymore. Also buy you an auto darkening helmet. Once you own one you'll never go back to a conventional full shade helmet. Find you some cloves you can work in. The old school large leather gloves are great for full protection but are also hard to work in. You can get snug fitting leather gloves or use mechanic type gloves. They don't last as long but give you some freedom to work. Just my opinions though.

 

www.readywelder.com Da Bomb. will do it all, can run off of batteries, this thing is the shiznit!

 

I think its all sound advice. I'f you want a cheap capable welder, i used the 220 volt lincoln from HD for years at 1 job, works great. It would weld up to 5/16 with .045 flux cored wire. You will need to purchase the gas kit though, which makes it more expensive. I personally would not buy a 110 unit, i've used the lincoln 135 and managed to overload it (thermal shutdown) with 14 gauge tubing, not much power, and duty cycle becoms an issue when every time you use it you need max power. Argon/co2 is the only gas to use on steel, Strait co2 will reduce the available heat and cause lots of spatter, you will need strait argon for alluminum. Now for my own use i am a Miller guy. I purchased a Millermatic 175, with CO2/argon. I love it, the mixed gas greatly improves the smoothness of the arc and cleanliness. The miller is high quality and has nice convenience features like the large spool adapter and tool less spool and roller changers. Plus a slip on nozzles, quality gun and cold electrode. I can get parts anywhere and unlike the HD/Lowes units mine appears in a catalog. From the standpoint of growth, you should buy what you can afford. Keeping in mind that every new type of welding will cost you more. Steel is cheap with flux, go to gas and you need the bottle, regulator and gas valve. For stainless they reccomend trimix, buy a new bottle, alluminum needs argon, your up to three bottles. Then there is tips, and wire, you need a selection of metals and sizes as well as the tips for them. Then you take into account that once you can weld you will be looking for more uses for welding, I'm about to drop 3g's on a miller inverter TIG/Stick unit. Now i need to build a cart, get some argon, tungsten's, rod etc. More money. Thats been my experience, you may never do more than weld a muffler, but on the other hand you might find that you become obsessed and would rather spend a day welding in your gararge than go to work! I get way more satisfaction building and welding than i do at my day job.

I would definately get an auto darkening helmet (a good one) with a big lense that covers your neck. Some quality gloves, an apron or jacket and a welding hat. DO NOT weld with skin exposed, you will get the worst sunburn of your life.

 

so after you buy a unit and start practicing: 1) what are good places to get metal for practice (didn't realize it was going to be this difficult to get some) 2) I want to do different thicknesses before doing any real work. So far I got few pieces of 1/8" steel. What thickness is the car body's sheet metal?

 

call a steel supplier and see if they will sell you scrap, usually they will give it to you for a few bucks. I found a structural steel place that let me take from their dumpster for 10 bucks, basically just greased the guy who was managing. I think the cars sheet metal is around 18 gauge, you can get a nice piece for around 25 bucks if you look around.

 

I will reiterate, though, you should really check out www.readywelder.com it's the most versitile, scaleable system I've ever seen. it will do literally everything, can be set up to use gas or flux core, will do aluminium, everything.

 

i like the ready welder idea, i was thinking i could buy one of their Mig torches and use it with the dynasty as a power source. I don't seem to grasp the advantage of lugging around and maintaining batteries though. I guess if you weld in the middle of no where, and don't have 5g's for an engine driven unit its good (a lot cheaper i would guess)but for the average guy within 50 feet of an outlet whats the advantage?

 

The advantage is Murphy's law. You won't always be within 50 ft. of a 220V outlet, and 110's aren't a real good choice most of the time, IMO. My thought is with the ready welder, one peice can do it all. That's why I like the battery Idea, If the wife drops the exaust on the road, I can fix it. I've seen some pretty well equiped pit stalls, but I've never seen one where you can plug in a welder, and waiting for the track welder to make it to you can be a frustrating situation. Sometimes you don't have time between heats to wait on the track welder. This nifty little welder can mean making your staging call, or watching from the bleachers. I've used one several times, and they work great.
You are right to use a cracker box to power it most of the time, A stick welder is good to have, sometimes. I'm just in love with the fact that you've got a welder in the truck box.

 

Actually, it’s an advantage and disadvantage at the same time. Yea, batteries are heavy and will be a PITA to keep charged, but fully charged they can deliver WAY more power then any welder that you could get for anyplace near that cost. (how many amps can a shorted out battery put out for a short period?)

I’ve use one before, but it was hooked up to a HH175 and being used as a spool gun to feed aluminum wire. I’ve got to say that I was not impressed, but mig + aluminum is a tough application, so that doesn’t say much for it’s performance on steel or when powered off of batteries.

I will tell you that the thing is quite awkward and bulky as compared to a normal MIG gun or even a normal spool gun, and to some extent at least batteries are not a proper power supply for a MIG process (in theory, you would have to change your travel speed to compensate for the drop in power as you go across the bead, unless there is some mechanism in the wire feed to compensate)

 

Body shops are a great source of practice metal- just ask them and they always have crunched fenders and panels in the dumpster for the taking. Drive around industrial parks etc and you'll rarely not find something out by a dumpster for the taking.

And for small projects Home Depot sells things like 1/8" flat bar and angle. That's where I got my metal to box my LCA's from and I will proably get my square tubing to fab my strut tower brace.