has anyone gotten rid of there torque arm? or does anyone have any pics of a camaro with out one? i'm trying to put a basket case back together. right now the trans i just had rebuilt for it doesn't have the mounts for the arm .and since i can't find the proper tailshaft housing anywhere i'm looking at building somthing. i can't say i'm clear on how the torque works so if i'm way off base please correct me. but what i was thinking is basically making it into a 4 link set up or maybe even a 3 link if it came down to it. from everything i've found here the pinion should be at -2 so can it just be mounted solid as long as the angle is right? thanks for any input .


jason

 

I dont think i would be good to totally get rid of it, unless your going to make something different for it. I think a torque arm is like a latter bar setup, but not for sure. But a guy did tell me once that you could get a latter bar and mount it somehow to the rear axle and weld a seperate xmember for it and and weld or somehow mount the latter bar to that. Kind of like BMRs torque arm set up, but never tried it, just hear say.

 

It's possible to just turn your 2 links into 4 links, and ditch the torque arm completely.

Like, turning your trailing arms, into a y-type arm, to set the pinion angle. Pretty simple, actually.

 

to simply remove it would be a very very bad thing.
to put a system that can do what it does would be fine.
BTW I am parting out an 89, I can get you the trq arm mount if you need it.

 

Homeade ladder bar setup. This is a track car so I can't say its be good on the street. Esp with how tight it is.

http://www.cecoatings.com/images/mis...ladderBars.JPG
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/mis...on/DonZ28b.jpg

If the front mounting points were a little longer with say 3 settings It might help some if street driven.

This is in a buddy of mines car. Can get more pic's if needed. It has a 9inch and a 572bbc in it now.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/mis...onZ28motor.jpg

 

the easiest way to get the torque arm off the tranny would be to go with a spohn unit. it mounts to the tranny mount that comes with the t/a. the next step up would be the BMR Track Pak unit. doing away with the t/a is silly in my opinion cause they work so frickin' well.

 

do you have the tailshaft housing for a th350? i have the front mount but my trans doesn't have the mounting holes to bolt it up,

how much does the axle actually move? and does it move front to back or just twist? i haven't crawled under the car yet to see where i can mount anything to (thats todays plan since the engine and trans went back in yesterday) but what i was kinda thinking about was useing turnbuckels from a tractors 3 point hitch for upper control arms. that way i'd have full adjustment to the pinion angle. another reason i'd like to get rid of the ta completely is then i could run my exhaust in the tunnel on both sides of the driveshaft. i live in woods so the more ground clearence the better since dirt roads are unavoidable. thanks for all the input so far

jason

 

Good looking homemade ladder car set up. My concern would be, it's not adjustable, so you have to get it right before install.

 

I really like the ladder bar setup. except i think i would make them out of thick wall tubing and have a poly bushing at the front mounting point. does anyone have all the pros and cons to this type of setup? it will be another week or so before i can actually start building them because i still need to run 220 to my shed i guess then i could make up some sub frame connectors also because after putting it up on blocks today i realized how much the car flexes. thanks again for all the input

jason

 

I have it from a 700R.
pinion angle wise the axle can move quite a bit.

 

You could always back half the car/ tub it and put some meat under it......LOL

 

That car is extremely cool. Were the f-body panhard, spring "pad" and LCA mounting brackets just moved over to that rear from the 10 bolt? Suppose you have a picture of what he did with his front shock mounts? I've never really seen that type setup before, where does the lower part mount? frame? upper, to that tube, which goes from front frame rail to... firewall? That just for header clearance etc?


Would that y part be at the front or back, or would it matter? Again, new to me..?

Very neat thread, just thought i'd post to explain how the torque arm works (or what it does), since you asked and that hasn't been addressed, and knowing what needs to be accomplished is half the battle.
A solid axle rear suspension car needs to locate the rear end, in reference to the body of the car, for 4 types of motion:

Forward to back - so when you hit the gas, the rear axle will push the car forward. And when you brake, the rear end pulls the car to a stop. 3rd gens use the lower control arms for that. The LCA's see tensile and compressive forces.

Side to side - So when you corner the rear end doesn't just slide to the side. This is accomplished via the panhard rod. It also sees tensile and compressive forces. If this is loose, or not there, the axle is constrained via the LCA's, which usually BIND in that case. (very bad).

Springs/shocks - control how the rear end goes up and down, in reference to the car. The rear end normally goes in an arc, rotating around the LCA's.

Torque arm - keeps the rear end from rotating around the axis which is the axle tubes. So when you take off, your tires turn, and your rear axle wants to rotate the front (pinion) upwards. (I think... ). And when you brake, the rear end wants to rotate the pinion to the ground. If this is adjustable you can keep your pinion a certain angle from straight.

If someone is good with paint/gif animations, they should make a little slideshow showing how each works, and how you can swap to dual control arms, aka 4 link. The second set of control arms create a "box" with your lower control arms, and keep it from rotating.

Correct me if i'm wrong here guys, i'm not totally confident in my answers here.

oh and finally, i'm gonna toss in my opinion: get the jegs unit. Its front mount is to the tranny tunnel, so you don't need to fab anything up.

 

In this pic the front tube goes to the frame rail. same with the back tube and the tubes for the coil overs. They go THRU the firewall and tie into the cage.
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/mis...onZ28motor.jpg
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/mis...on/DonZ28c.jpg

I'll have to get some pic's of the rear for ya. hes not running stock springs or shocks in the rear either. He swaped to Coil overs setup as well but moved em inward and angled.

like this

 

That's flat out amazing.

One day i'll get serious about suspension, and do some cool custom stuff like that. Once I have a tubing bender, better welder, chop saw, lift, etc etc...

Would that angled coil over help do the panhards job then? Replace, or just supplement it's function?

How did he locate the front shock mounts? Like when you remove that inner quarter panel, do you just measure where the shock mount was, in reference to the frame rail, firewall, and ground, then remove the panel, and weld in your braces and try to get it in the same place in space? What about getting junk in there since you have nothing to protect the engine bay then? race/show only car?
nifty stuff.... Thanks for the pics Chris.

 

I dont thin the coil overs would replace the PHR. They couldnt. It would compress and rebound way to much then.(side to side)

for the engine bay ya thats a track only car. Its a 572 that run low 8's..lol. (yes 1/4 mile)

Measue 10X cut once. he actually cut out a little to locate and tac the upper mount in place on each side befor removing the complete well.

 

If that looks the way I think it does I'd say the suspension isn't a suspension at all. With the ladder bar welded to the axle tube the axle is forced to rotate about on an arc with the center at the end of the ladder bar... but the use of the stock LCA's have their own arc! That's a "tight" suspension because it's fixed aka fully constrained. Unbolt the stock LCA's and it'll move. The panhard wants to swing the rear on an arc but with the way the bars are welded onto the axle and mounted up front it won't want to move much.

 

I wanted to be able to adjust anti-squat at the track easily, and save a few lbs, so I fabbed up a 3rd link to replace the torque arm. it attaches to the rear with a welded a 10" long bracket on the axle housing. You can place it horizontally to cancel out the unloading of the right rear under acceleration, for a more even loading on launch without airbags or pre-loading the swaybar. It's connected with QA1 XMR 10-12 3/4" rod ends to a 4130 chromoly tube running forward to a drop bar on the rollcage. By adjusting the height at the front, you can increase or decrease antisquat easily, depending on traction conditions. It does get in the way of the over axle exhaust, so I fabbed boom tubes out the side, in front of the rear tire.

 

got a pic of that Andrew? I'm curious to see what you mean exactly. I can't picture that sorta thing.

 

yeah, i'm curious too.

in order to get my t/a onto my 8.5" i'm building, i'm gonna run tubes across the top and bottom of the differential itself and welding them to the axle tubes. then i'll run rodends to mounts on the tubing i bent over and under the pumpkin area. i'm mounting the front to a crossmember much like the BMR unit, except i'll be using a ladder bar type of mount and have a slide-junction at the end of the t/a with a poly bushing in it. so then i'l have infinite adjustability with the 9" or so of travel up front and the rod ends at the back to help with pinion angle and Instant Center.

 

huh, yea andris, how about some pics…

Actually, might make sense to start a new thread with them and just link the thread to here since it will probably go off in a different direction…

 

this a good write up about axle movmentbut it doesnt explain LCA work theory
Competition Engineering : Tech Articles

 

That looks like the same design as a south side lift bar.