Hello all!

I bought an '84 camaro the other day. I bought it on the premise that it is something for me to work on and have something that looks awesome and I did it myself. Well, the previous owner had put a sbc 283 in. The motor isn't bad, but they ran a hose from the back of the intake manifold (by the distributor) and ran it down between the engine and trans. Needless to say, it smokes like crazy from this hose. When I went to diagnose the smoke, I noticed that they had notched the frame about 1 1/2-2" in front of the transmission cross member on the main frame rail. I took it to my mechanic and he said that the notch was done so poorly that it will automatically fail inspection and likely never to be legally driven again without "creative" fixes (i.e. blocking the notch in with steel and hiding it with undercoating). I notified the state police (PA) and they have to inspect the car next week. What are my options here? I want a car that I can work on, but I also want it to be safe and reliable. Thanks in advance

Tony

 

the first thing you do when you find stuff like that is to keep it on the down low and not ask the cops what they think..

 

^^^^ Agreed, you screwed up ^^^^^
Not to mention police are idiots, they are not mechanics they are not mechanical engineers.

 

Before anyone can really give you advice here we will need to see pics of the problem.

 

Wow. So much negativity here... I have to disagree with you on that one. That was the advice of my mechanic and the regulate state inspections. They may not be mechanics, engineers, ASE, etc. but they know what is safe and unsafe.

 

Your mechanic probably just said that to save his @rse. No need for him to lose his job or get into legal issues if you get hurt since he was the last one to mess with your car. I would've just had him fix it up and carry on with the build. But yes, pics would be nice.

 

Please post pictures.

Just about anything can be fixed with enough time and money.

We've had members on here notch like that before or plain remove the sub frame because they have personally added enough metal bracing in to tie things together (SFCs, cages, more bracing).

 

Don't be too worried about it. It's just sheet metal, nothing about the factory subframe is particularly special or magical. It's actually surprisingly thin guage metal that makes up the body and subframes, which is why so many owners install subframe connectors to stiffen the chassis. It can certainly be fixed and once you post some pictures we can tell you how much work it will take to fix it and how to go about doing it.

 

It was an easy fix.
Did the police ever do anything offical?
(cause then you are screwed)

 

I lived in PA and I have to say that the inspection stations DON'T ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND the inspection codes. I had one station tell me that cars are not allowed to have different wheels on your car, they HAVE to have the original wheels on the car with the same size tire from the factory. What the code says is that the tires have to be the proper size for the wheel that they are on. So no tires stretched to fit on a wheel where the rim is wider than the tire width, i.e. idiots that put narrow tires on wider wheels to get it to fit under a fender. I had them also fail me for other stupid things that aren't even in the inspection manual.

Your mechanic was most likely just covering his ***. Going to the state police was also the wrong thing to do, they are not mechanics or engineers. Even if the "notch" makes the car unsafe, it can be fixed with enough time and or money. I have been through the inspection book, I dont even remember anything about them looking for stuff like this except on the outside of the car, like no holes from rust larger than a certain size.

Post a picture so we can see what you're talking about

 

I wouldn't have said anything, you are just creating another headache for yourself.

Its just sheet metal It can be replaced. Find someone who can weld good, get it repaired and properly rust proof both sides of the repair and forget about it. Maybe throw on some SFCs for good measure if you want to go all out.

 

lol.

your best bet would have been to not say anything and find someone to fix it. now it's gonna turn into a major event because the police will have to follow through with this.

sometimes if you keep quiet, it's like it never happened...

 

The only places with laws that stupid is europe.
Over on ecomodder guys in europe claim the laws in a few countries say that they can not change the tire size by more than 3% for their inspection.

 

The point was that the idiots that told me that didn't know what they were talking about

 

No they don't.

Sure there may be a select few that are actually into cars, but most are not and most will not know what is safe and what is not, with an engineer pointing it out to them.

The police don't regulate the state inspection, the DMV, and a couple other commities do. does

 

great read, will possibly read it again on Friday after a few beers.

 

 

I wish I could 'like' this.

 

Sorry for following the law. Glad to know that others do too.

 

do you call the cops when you are speeding?

 

Stop being so self righteous.

There's a right way to do things, and a smart way to do things. As an automotive enthusiast, hot rodder, restorer, etc we are constantly under the knife in the eyes of the law. They think everyone with a fast car is a delinquent maniac, anyone who wrenches their car in the driveway is a jackleg, and anyone with an old car should crush it and buy a new one.

They will most likely total it, pending repair and further inspection which will brand the title as a salvaged or repaired vehicle devaluing it forever.

 

Well you have asked us what are your options here. A few of us have said to put some pics up so we could see what you are talking about so we could give you some sound advice,
Some are poking fun at you, maybe because you have not really given us more about the problem in the form of pics, No one can give you any advice if we can not see pics of your cars problems,
If you have already taken your car to the police for them to look at, What did they tell you? If not then lets see what the damage is and if it can be fixed in a reasonable cost before you have it inspected.

 

After dealing with the local sheriff and DMV for hours until I ultimately almost got into trouble for arguing with the law. I will never try to keep the appropriate people aware of issues again. I tried to properly transfer camaro I saved from the junkyard into my name. The problem was it has no drive line. The sheriff, who "knows all about cars and has been doing it for 40 years" tried to total my clean title, all original car because the motor and trans were out of it.

I nearly got arrested for arguing with him over it. Needless to say there was 1 reasonable DMV employee that told me what I needed to do to make sure the title comes out clean.

Just my personal anecdote and why I agree that the police are a waste of time...

 

Issues like that are not for the police anyway. When I bought my 91 GTA and put $400 for the sale price the lady at the PA DMV said I had to justify the price being too low. I said it had no engine or transmission, she just said OK, write that down and I was all good on the title and registration.

 

How about some pics?

 

To most people a salvage title means the vehicle has been in a wreck.
So when I pull the engine and transmission out of my car and replace them I have to get a salvage title?

 

a salvage title is place on a vehicle when the insurance Co. decides that damage is grater than the value of the vehicle.
just because a car does not have the original drive line qualify it for a salvage title. If this was the way it went, just think how many cars would have a salvage title!

 

one week later, and this is still as hilarious as the first time I read it!

 

Generally, an engine and or transmission missing doesn't classify as damage.
It's all open to interpretation. When the police are involved, they can make the decision based on how they interpret the law. If the law says the cost of repairs exceed the value of the vehicle the vehicle should be salvaged, the drive train could be included in that.

In VA, the state police control and monitor our state safety inspection stations. They have the athority to do a safety inspection on the side of the road. They know the routine and the law, but that doesn't make them experts or even knowledgeable. It does however give them the authority to reject the inspection, and if its bad enough have the car taken off of the road pending repair and further inspection. This usually is accompanied to a call to the DMV to make a notation on the registration, and eventually on the title.

When you fix a salvaged vehicle, at least in VA, before you can register it, or even take it to an inspection station, it must be inspected by a state trooper on site. Then the paperwork must be filed to change the status of the vehicle from salvage to repaired. It's a huge pain in the ***. don't know why anyone would go through the trouble if they didn't have to.

 

I use to live in virginia, about 20 years total.
Now I understand.
Yeah virginia has a lot of stupid laws.
Compairing the virginia state police to the gestapo is not a far stretch.
I like how they put the VA state seal on their cars with the "thus to tyrants" logo because they are the biggest tyrants of all.

They usually don't salvage title vehicles over 7 years old and the older they are the less like a salvage title will be used.

I hate the way virginia is with titles. I made the mistake of registering my suburban there once (lasted about 3 months), that was a big mistake. Other wise I was able to kept them registered out of state.

 

To clarify, I bought the car In IN and had to transfer the title to KY. KY requires a sheriff's inspection for out of state vehicles.

 

I wasn't paying attention. I thought you were the OP in Pennsylvania, oops

 

 

The State Police looked at it. Turns out the trooper knows my dad and my boss, strangely (my boss is a retired trooper). He looked at it and said I had two options: get it fixed or total it. I took it to a local speed shop and they fixed it up right. The tech said that the notch job was so-so. They had the right idea but the welding was god awful. There was another spot that I didn't catch so they hit that spot too. I am not technically concerned with the legal aspect as I am the safety aspect. I didn't want to risk having a frame that would fold up if it was hit.

It wasn't cheap to fix, but it's fixed right. And that hose was a brake booster hose.. It still smokes a little but it's exhaust, so I'm suspecting an exhaust leak at the headers. No big deal. That tired 283 isn't staying for long.

 

That car doesn't have a frame!!!!! The whole POS is spotwelded together......


How old are you? My guess 16-21

 

They have a subframe, which is just easier to identify as a "frame". Lighten up.



What does age have to do with anything? I personally know a couple of 17-19 year olds that can out wrench some of the best hotrodders in the industry, and i've met many 30-50 somethings that shouldn't be allowed to even hold a wrench. Don't turn this post into a stereotpying flame fest.

Give him some credit for getting the problem resolved, instead of driving around a death trap like so many other "car guys" would have.

 

I'm not going to dignify the age question with a response. But I will give you a hint. You're off the mark.

Do you see where I'm coming from? I wanted a project car, yes. I wanted a project car that was safe from the beginning. I've seen entirely too many people killed because of faulty equipment and poor quality control. That being said: the issue is resolved. If you want to question my age or maturity, go ahead. I'm not going to get all sore from people hiding behind a keyboard saying things that they think is funny and will get me torqued. I've been called worse and in person. Thanks for the help. And thanks to some people for actually having a sense of humility. I may not be a world-class hot rod builder, but I hope to a least build something for myself that is something I can be proud of.

 

tcalpino, I'm sorry that your first impression of this message board is probably a negative one due to some of the responses you've received. I'm glad to see you got the help you needed and fixed your Camaro! Enjoy it and please hang around the message board. There are some great members and excellent information here even if you have to weed through some detractors and misinformation to get to them.

 

 

RULES for GEARHEADS . . .

RULE #1 - COPS and FAST CARS don't mix.
RULE #2 - COPS and MODIFIED FAST CARS don't mix.
RULE #3 - COPS and HOT-RODDERS don't mix.
RULE #4 - COPS and SPEEDERS don't mix.
RULE #5 - The LESS that COPS know about ANYTHING, the BETTER.
RULE #6 - When in DOUBT, refer to RULE #5.

Get the picture . . . ???

 

They don't actually inspect your car for road-worthiness. At most, they will check to see that the turn signals/horn work and the windshield isn't cracked. They perform the inspection outside the clerk's office in the parking lot. Make sure you get the form called "KY application for vehicle registration" because this is needed to ascertain the value of the car - otherwise they will go by the highest bluebook value.

 

lmao........ u called the cops because u found something wrong with your car??? lmfao... thats like telling a cop that u have a pound of weed in the trunk when u get pulled over for not using ur blinker..

 

They know even less about firearms! He'll even BATF would bring things over to my place to ask about it. Before sending it off to the technical branch.to have it looked at....
Iv got 6 mini cameras in my car.just so I can post videos on you tube. After this nexed build

 

Well since somebody revived this old thread I re-read it, kidna made me chuckle so here's a lil something to make you chuckle too.