Hey guys,
As the new year came in, I was beginning to think that this is the first year in 35 years that Chevy and Pontiac dealers will not have F-Bodies residing in their showrooms. I hope that someday these cars will someday be resurrected from the dead and that we will have a new Camaro or Firebird to battle r&*&rs with. Happy New Year everyone.

 

*cries*

 

I hope it doesn't come back, atleast the Firebird anyway. I say this because if they did it would more than likely be something that does NOT do honor to the name and what the cars were when they were still being built. Example, GTO.

This will hopefully teach people to take better care of their cars and restore more of them and just part them out...

LONG LIVE THE LEDGEND OF FIREBIRD

 

Word from the inside is that the Camaro has too widely a recognized name and heritage to allow it to become something else. GM has already stated "off the record" that the Camaro will always be a RWD performance/muscle car. The Firebird is gone, but there are rumors that the Trans Am may make a return. No base model, just the performance of the Trans Am.

What's wrong with the new GTO? It's following in the footsteps of the old GTO. The old one was a family sedan that got flashier looks and more performance. The new GTO is a family sedan that has the performance and the flashier looks. Sounds to me like it's following in the traditional footsteps.

Do you have any problems with the 94-96 Impala SS? It's a 4 door, flashier looking, family sedan with performance. It too followed it's heritage.

2005 will show new rides from GM. The word is that the Monte Carlo SS will be back with a V8 and RWD

 

I hope does it come back with Front Wheel Drive or like compact car or 4 doors

 

So what's wrong with the new GTO?

I think it fits the bill perfectly, just like the original. Better than any original GTO could ever be. This one will corner and stop as well as go faster than any GTO previously made.

Sorry, just don't see what the problem would be. Maybe because its imported?

 

There's still a new T/A at the dealer I work for.

 

It's also the first time in almost 40 years that Pontiac has been left without a single V8 in its lineup. That's just as sad as the lack of a Firebird, if not more.

 

Those sound like old rumors. The general concensus is that the Firebird and all its variants, including Trans Am, are permanently dead. Come over to the 5th gen forum at http://web.camaross.com/forums and check it out. There are many insiders that visit those boards and post to them regularly.

The Chevrolet SS concept car which will be at NAIAS this weekend is loosely based on early 70s Camaros and Chevelles, but there's no reason to think it will be put into production, and even if it is, there's no reason to think there will be a Pontiac sister car, unless they build it alongside the Solstice, which I also doubt.

Another reason to think the Firebird and all its variants are dead: GTO is coming out later this year; Solstice has pretty much gotten the green light for production and will be coming out in a couple of years from now. To think that Pontiac would then add a THIRD sports car, the Firebird or the Trans Am or anything else.. think about how unlikely that is. three performance sporty RWD coupes in one GM division? Very unlikely.

 

Never heard of it happening before! I never heard of the 70's Chevelle, Nova, Camaro and Corvette or the 80's Camaro, Monte Carlo SS and the Corvette. I also never heard of the 90's Impala SS, Camaro and Corvette. As for Pontiac, the Fiero, Firebird and Grand Prix Aerocoupe never existed simultaneously. I'm not being a jerk, but when you state that things are unlikely to happen, think back in history and remember that it repeats itself.

 

Definetly. V8 and RWD is coming back again in all the companies.

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, im so sad......

 

I hope GM bring back the Camaro because i would buy a new one right now if i could.

 

They (GM) can do whatever they want. I have a RWD V8 Camaro that I will never sell. I probably would not like a new one any way.
I got everything I need right now in my Camaro.

 

I could have sworn I read that the GTO was due for release in late '03, to be powered by a 5.7 liter, 340 hp v-8... was it an LS1?

 

You are correct, but theres still no F-Body.

 

No prob, I see your point clearly, but the point is flawed. Here's my point: I'm very familiar with those occasions because I was around too (go figure!), but.. What was it that did not exist during all those time periods you mentioned? have you guessed it yet? That's right; SUV's. Not to mention minivans. Introduced in 84 but took a while to catch on. SUV rabies didn't happen till about 92 or the Jurassic Park movie that made Ford Explorers a household name, whichever came first. Back before those days, it was all station wagons and sedans and coupes back then and everyone was buying them faster than they made them, even during the EPA smackdown of late 70s and early 80s. In today's world, trucks sell, cars don't. Simple as that. Especially at GM. They are trying to turn that around now since they're getting slaughtered. but even now, GM make the vast vast majority of their money off trucks and SUV's, more so than Ford or Chrysler. They don't have the initiative for a lot of sedan/coupe variety, especially RWD. Can you say.. Oldsmobile? Killed partly by lack of identity when compared to Buick and Caddy, BUT, primarily killed by SUV's. Back in the 70s and 80s, cars had actual style, actual character, actual passion, distinction and functionality built into them, and no import could come very close. What do you see now? All front wheel drive safety-enhanced jellybeans that look the same from one brand to the next, domestic and import alike. People find it impossible to fall in love with those junkheaps and so in order to try and retain some self-affirming macho image, they buy gas-guzzling rollover-specials, i.e. SUV's. There is no market for THREE RWD coupes at Pontiac today. Put it this way.. I'll buy you a six-pack if we ever see the Trans Am return next to the GTO and Solstice.

Don't take my word for it, because for all you know, I may just be a nutcase babbling about little fluffy clouds. But I recommend you visit the URL in my previous post, where you can get the opinions of many people in the know, even people working inside GM. There's plenty of talk going on about the 06-07 Camaro return, but ZILCH about Trans Am. It's just a non-issue. There's no indication that GM is even thinking about it, much less working on it.

 

Ah maybe someday they'll bring them back just to experiment, just a thought. :Burnout

 

the solstice is nice looking, it needs to be bigger though. the gto is pitiful, i don't care what engine it has, it looks imported, it looks like something my 85 year old grandmother would buy so she could get to and from her friend's houses and carry the supplies they need for their knitting club. It pisses me off that they decided to make the g6 (gto) and not the grand prix g8. the g8 was a bad *** looking car, and had the ***** to back it up. It had the grand prix's half sporty half practical image to improve on. Thats the embodiment of a muscle car, stuffing a big engine in a car that wasn't really meant to go fast. The g6/gto is just pissing ans ****ting all over the well respected gto name. And the chevy bel air is the EXACT same way.

I'm horribly mad that if i wanted to buy a performance car from gm i'd have to buy a corvette. I don't want to be left with no choice but to buy a car that is rightfully associated with 60 year old upper class guys that want to feel young, make up for what they lack in their pants, and still be *******. I mean really, how many times have you blown by a vette and had them even try to keep up? **** that ****, and **** VETTES.

 

sad times.

 

Actually there is an interesting write up in this month's issue of High Performance Pontiac. This is something no one wants to hear, not even me. It is however the truth.

V8's in the mainstream are gone. Face it. I miss the rumble and the feeling of power. That is why I bought my 87TA. So I do not have to let go of it.

The write up has interesting points of view on this. You say that the identity of cars is gone. I disagree. The indentity as we knew it is gone. There are more cars out there with performance packages then we have ever seen before. And many of these cars with a I4 or V6 have very respectible 1/4 mile times. Performance cars are making a comeback big time. Everyone is buying them. But it's not the GTO's or the TA's or Camaros that the modern day enthusiest is after. It's front or sometimes rear wheel drive 4 and 6 cylinder cars. They are safer and handle well. They don't have the top end we are used to in a V8 but they have the low end and medium end power needed for quick city driving. Some of these cars are alot of fun. Technology has improved alot over the years. You just don't need a huge gas guzzling V8 powerhouse to get performance now. The power to weight ratio is amazing in some of the newer cars. So while we are talking about the identity and personality leaving cars of today. We are missing the trend. The personality is comming back. The power is comming back. Just not in the form we used to know.

Examples of what I am talking about.
Mazda Speed Protege'
Acura RSX
Pontiac Grand AM GTX
Pontiac Grand Pre (SLP variant)
Pontiac GTO
Neon SRT-4
Nissan Sentra Spec-V
Subaru WRX

None of these cars pack the V8 rumble we are used to. They do however fallow a tradition of being fun and delivering the driveability and low 1/4 mile times people like us want. While getting good gas mileage and not breaking the bank. Many of these vehicles are under 30,000 even less than 26,000. Put simply this is basically what the article in High Performance Pontiac stated. I miss the V8's too. Fact is cars with identity and performance are still here. They have a more dominant presence then they ever did in the last 20 years or more. Like it or not the muscle car image is dead. But the performance market isn't. It has just changed with the times.

 

Speaking of the GTO specifically, let's face it. It looks like a 95 Chevy Monte Carlo with a 98 Grand Prix nose tacked on. If Pontiac could've taken a little more time to work with the Holden platform, instead of rushing out the door to replace the hole the Firebird left, it might have been a nicer car. And the 30,000 dollar pricetag means the end of affordable V8 muscle car performance.

 

It's pretty darn big; you'd be surprised. very wide stance. At least as wide as a 4th gen, but with the added benefit of small overhangs. It will take a smallblock V8 easily.

Some people may be totally against the GTO, but I'm willing to bet it will be a total success and sell every last one with people still waiting in line. And if mainstream V8's aren't popular, then the GTO wouldn't be coming back labeled "Pontiac's Halo Car". Cadillac CTS is RWD V8, as is the XLR. There's always the 'vette the SS concept with a V8, the Solstice has a very slight chance of getting a V8 in the top model though I doubt it. The GTO is a mandatory V8, the 2004 Grand Prix will have a 4.4 FWD V8. Many possibilities. Have you seen the Cadillac Cien or the Cadillac Sixteen concept? 750HP V12 and 1000HP V16, respectively! And I'm forgetting some and who knows what's next. I don't accept the idea that the mainstream V8 is dead. Just because the 4th gen was an eyesore disaster doesn't mean it has to be that way in the future, and changess don't happen overnight.

I just wanted to mention that the GTO and G6 concept are completely different cars. The G6 concept is seen by many as the replacement of the Grand Am. It's All Wheel Drive with a 3.5 V6 making 285HP. Click for pictures: interior sketch - exterior sketch - Quite a few photos

 

The 4th gen is an eyesore disaster? That's a little harsh, now.

 

I agree that 4ths are terrible looking. You look at a Third Gen and then at a 4th and you wonder what happened after 92.

 

They got a hell of a lot faster after 92, that's for sure.

 

When the LS1 came out.

 

www.thirdgen.org

www.thirdgen.org

Topic closed.