I would like to start off saying that I love Camaros. I feel they have the best looks, and since they great power, and rumbly sound, its win win. Firebirds are cool too, I wouldn't mind owning one. And Stangs are alright. But out of those I would rather have Camaro. I love the look of a Camaro, it has a p!ssed off and laughing at the same time type look, cool. But what I'm trying to figure it is, not why I like the Camaro, but why I hate the Stang.

I guess I was brought up knowing that Stangs suck, F-bodies rule. I wouldn't mind owning a Stang, but something inside says NO, get the Camaro. But I feel I was brain-washed to not liking them. But I want to know why Stangs are so hated in the F-body world. I ask myself why Stangs suck, and the only answer I can come with is they just suck. Are there real reasons why Stangs are so hated.

I understand the Muscle vs. Rice thing, because muscle is muscle, and rice think they are muscle. They're are trying to pretend they got fast wheels but they don't. But an Fbody and Stang are both muscle, they are just made from different corporations. But what started the whole Stang vs. Fbody, and why did it start? Why do Stangs supposedly suck so much?

Any opinions, facts, etc, would be appreciated. Peace, Tom

[This message has been edited by ChevyLuva3 (edited October 27, 2001).]

 

My dad is a mustang man and I admitt I loved his 69 mach one. But when I told him I was selling my s-10 and getting a sports car he said "get a 5.0 mustang." In my home town EVERYONE had mustangs and I didn't like any of them so I wanted to be different and I got a camaro but now I know the history and tradition I must uphold when I get a rev from a mustang. BTW if it is a pre 73 mustang I would let him just run his butt off because I actually like those cars, kinda like paying homage to an old friend. Like all you would do if you pulled up next to a 69 SS.

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91 z-28 305 700R4
3.73 gears out back
T-Tops and Black all over.

 

No, if I pulled up to an X-ram 69 Z28, then I would have respect. A BBC 69 Z is not a car worth revving it for. One of the only times I will endorse a SBC over a BBC.

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1984 L69 5-speed Z28, T-tops, Polished Irocs, Dynomax headers, Flowmaster exhaust, 14.87 in the quarter. Currently 50,370 original miles.

 

That would be because they are made by F**d mostly, and only know how to do 1 thing alright, go in a straight line. They don't look as good, almost always have something broken, and have been losing to Camaros for years, and still are. How did it start??

In 64, GM's Pontiac introduced the 1st real musclecar, the GTO, and it was a complete success. The GTO was a bigger, heavier car with some added sporty looks and powerful fast engine. Then F**d saw this and made a smaller, cheaper, more coupelike car and put a bigger engine in it too and called it a M*****g in the same year. GM sees what F**d did and wants to come out with coupe to go into direct competition with the M*****g, since their idea had become a success for another company with a similar design to theirs. Chevrolet starts right away, 4 months after the M*****g's introduction. They have an idea and a preproduction model for a 4 seater car very direct and similar to the M*****gs concept. But Pontiac wanted to be in it too and wasn't interested in the same thing exactly. They wanted a 2 seater, and to be a more economic competiter to the Corvette while besting the M*****g also. They had their own idea and made their model. Not only did GM not like Pontiacs concept, they didn't want a any competition for the Corvette at all. So Chevys' design was approved and it became a "together" development for both divisions of GM. Chevy liked it and went on with their plans while Pontiac didn't like it much, but had to do it this way. Pontiac also didn't like it now because Chevy had already completed all the design work for the F-Body and had already given a name to theirs, which would be Camaro. So Pontiac came up with a name too, which would be Firebird. A name they had used once before on a concept car in 54 which didn't even look much like a car. Since the chassis and everything had been designed already, they had to make changes as much as they could to try to make it as different as they could from a Camaro, even in the engine department. While they were still doing this, in 66 Chevy introduced the Camaro as a 67 model and already started its sales success and competition with the M*****g. 5 months later, in 67 Pontiac introduced its version of the F-Body as a 67 model, really a 671/2. The Camaro has always been the better seller between the 2 F-Bodies since then and the more recongnized car. The Camaro was made better than the M*****g and sold like crazy with good prices, (I think higher than the M*****g) value, and all kinds of special editions like Yenkos and COPO Z-L1's. They beat and bettered M*****gs (still do ) and F**d now knew they were going to have work to do because of these new cars, which made for a good, crazy competition all these years between them, and the main musclecars of the company that 1st introduced the musclecar.

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89 RS
STILL Looking For:
An 87 IROC-Z28 350 TPI

Yeah I have an RS, but I want an IROC-Z!!



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited October 28, 2001).]

 

Thats interesting and all... but the Mustang was originally designed to be a 6 cylinder commuter car and was never intended to be any sort of performance vehicle during the design phase until the opinion polls came in and they decided to stuff a V8 in it.

Why people hate Fords or hate GMs? Take a look at the above post and that covers it. I have some of both, and by far the GM cars are less reliable at my house. Doesnt mean I hate GM cars, both manufacturers do stupid stuff. And to rate on how fast they go in a straight line or curve only is silly, take a look at the sales figures of 4thgens on both sides and tell me the public in general really cares.

Hatred is based either in fear or in lack of knowledge. I see it here all the time, I see it on Ford boards as well. Some people are just closed minded and stupid. Love of your car is fine, hating everything else is just silly.

 

Here F**d cars are less reliable through many others experiences which I have seen, I don't ever want 1. I like GM. I like Chevrolet. It doesn't matter what was thought at 1st when they were deciding what to put in the M*****g, since they did decide to make it a musclecar, and thats what it was.



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited October 28, 2001).]

 

What years are you saying the Camaro outsold the Mustang? The Mustang has sold more and been more recognizeable for as long as I can remember. And during the 80's thirdgen era, Most 5.0's were faster than GM 305's. It took the 350 to beat the 5.0, yet GM made so many 305's that the 5.0's were spanking us left and right.


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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
317 RWHP, 418 RWTQ
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Member: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

I was talking Camaro versus Firebird when I said "between the 2" with sales and more being recongnizable. I'll edit that and make it more clear.

I'd say between F-Body and M*****g, they are recognized about the same. Don't know about sales because I can't find M*****g production numbers from 64 on.

GM could have made the 305 faster, but they chose the 350 instead. Which I think was a good idea.




[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited October 28, 2001).]

 

Heres some more information on who outsold who during the years of the Third Gen F-Body.

The F-Body combined outsold the M*****g all years except 3. Also, the Camaro outsold the M*****g 5 of those years by itself, while also outselling the Firebird all of them.

 

hell yeah!

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1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, G92, 9-bolt 3.45, Lowered, Cat-back, Air Foil, Sub Frames, Huge sways.

AIM: IROC 5spd
http://www.geocities.com/chevy5spdiroc/87Roc.htm

 

I like em both! F-bodies and Mustangs! Yes its possible.

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1983 TransAm
1984 TransAm
1994 TransAm GT
1994 25th TransAm GT
1990 T-Bird SC
1971 Boss 351

Four TransAm's are not enough. Firebirds for all.

 

like madmax said, the mustang was originally a "personal" or "commuter" vehicle, and the advertising focused ALOT on potential female buyers
quite unlike the GTO, which was built for one purpose: the hotrod crowd, or drag racing enthusiasts.
As for the unreliability issues, I think its even, third gens had quite a few problems as did mustang, but as for 4th Gens, the Fbodys were built wayyy better. For instance, all SN95 mustangs had to be recalled not to long ago for faulty parking brakes of all things.

i dont have the numbers for the 82-84 Fbody years but i do have 85-2000
85. Fbody- 280,000/ mustang- 156,000
86. 288,000 / 225,000
87. 215,000 / 160,000
88. 154,000 / 211,000
89. 171,000 / 210,000
90. 75,000 / 128,000
91. 125,000 / 100,000
92. 93,000 / 79,000
93. 53,000 / 114,000
94. 165,000 / 137,000
95. 175,000 / 185,000
96. 92,000 / 135,000
97. 92,000 / 108,000
98. 85,000 / 175,000
99. 76,000 / 182,000
00. 76,000 / 182,000

 

You do realize that ever since chevy engines have gone in both of the f-bodies, the camaro and the firebird have been the same car. The only real difference between them is the obvious styling differences (although from the side, they have always been almost identical--why make 2 bodies, right, GM) and the firebird has typically cost a little more and been a little nicer. Of course you say you would pick camaro because you like the looks better, but the camaro and the firebird are one and the same. Oh yeah, the firebirds, at least late third gen and fourth gen, are usually a tiny bit faster.

 

I'm wondering why this post is different from your other post but oh well LOL I don't think it should have been closed.

The Mustang is in general a bit faster in the 1/4 than third gens, but it is higher, wider and handles noticeably different than thirdgens.

The thirdgens are wider, shorter and corner a lot better than Mustangs. The clutch is lighter and the gas pedal is heavier.

It mostly boils down to which features you think are important and if you like the looks of the car.

Take each one for a drive, and test the different elements. The thing you should notice is how much more the Mustang leans in turns.