I'm sure this has been posted before, but reading a thread posted not too long ago about what an SS third gen would be like got me thinking about this.
Does anyone have a guesstimate (or actually know) what a third gen would be worth in 35 years? Since the first gen's are going for such $$$, I'm curious if third gen's will climb the value latter.

 

There really is no way to know for sure. I'm sure that they will never command the kind of money that a muscle car from the 60s does, but at some point the harder to come by models will certainly be worth some dough. Now is the time to either hang on to or pick up your dream thirdgen, because down the line they may be out of reach.

 

I bet they will be worth more in the future......certain models are comanding some serious $$$..just try to buy a cheap turbo t/a

 

Hell, who really cares how much your car is? As long as you have fun driving it there shouldn't be a price on it, because you won't sell it.

 

Actually I suspect the early Pace Cars and the later IROCs will be worth some serious money some day. Looking at the junk coming from the factories these days the older, rare, or popular performance cars will continue to increase in price. If I had a really nice, low mileage, special version third gen, I'd keep it that way.

 

I agree with both sides and I think you can have it both ways. Don't worry about having to park it or making it a trailer queen. It's meant to be driven and have fun. But there's no problem having a little icing on the cake knowing it's got some appreciating value.

There is a big range of 3rd gens. They vary from basic options of little desire, to well equipped rare models. One thing that I feel applies to all of them is that they won't be getting any cheaper. They have reached a historical pinnacle point in time where the $$$ trend is beginning to reverse from depreciating to appreciating.

This is a great time to be a 3rd gen owner.

 

Nobody knows what they will be worth two decades from now ... But I know they are going up nicely now, at least the ultra low mileage ones.

Mike M

 

Well first, they'll be illegal, since the EPA and Federal Gov't will have declared all fossil fuel burning devices as contraband. Then even if you have one on the black market, ownership will do you no good since fossil fuels will be harder to obtain then R12 is now, and distilling your own fuels will be a crime worthy of capital punishment.

All kidding aside, I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious changes in the next twenty years. The automobile has remained essentially unchanged for so long, it's due for a serious change any time now. Also, right now the muscle car and gear head type subjects are going through a popular culture revival. Eventually the fad will move on to something new and the prices will drop again.

Thirdgens will never be worth serious coin because they were so heavily produced, and most weren't exactly steller performers. The good money will be on the faster cars. 'Rare' thirdgens won't bring substantial money, for the simple reason that most 'rare' cars, actually fall under the catagory of being unpopular when they were new. The exceptions are the cars that were limited production or so expensive that most people couldn't afford them. Also you have to keep in mind that thirdgens are always going to be saddled with the ****** and heavy metal persona, which will drive away serious money. All you have to do to see this in person is drive through a trailer court. You'll see about 5-6 trailers in every court with at least two Transmaro's on the parking pad. Usually one or both are sitting on blocks. It's really comical, because it's true.

 

I agree with what you said, but I'd give the 3rd gens a little more credit (and only a little more ).
While, yes, they likely won't get serious money, but the "rare" ones should bring decent coin. Even right now (let alone 10, 20 or 35 years from now) it's getting harder and harder to find #'s matching Z28's & Iroc's. Especially in good-great condition. So many have been abused, swapped parts, and modified. Then add 14-24 years of corrosion, accidents, and write-offs. Those cars are already starting to see appreciable gains.
You're very right about the trailer court Transmaro's! That's so true. But I don't expect any of those to survive and be around anymore in 10 years (or less). That will improve the image and the rarity.

So while you might think a mint '89 Iroc in 25 years might fetch $25,000.
I'd have to say they would be worth a lot more. Maybe . . . . . $25,050.

 

I believe there are a few good things that will determine desiarablity.
1) POWER, first and foremost the most important, if its slow forget it, historically fuel economy does not intrest people.
2) Convertibles -- Historically a Convertible brings a 1.5x to 2x price tag as a hard top counterpart, factory or aftermarket. A producion Convertible should bring more, but were already seeing an increase in the Autoform Convertibles which were not factory.
3) T-tops Love them or hate them more people like them
4) Rarity, IF you have 1 and 2 or 3 AND you have something rare or unusual THEN it will increase the value. For example G92 is not RARE BUT it is a performance enhancement, therefore it should bring more money as people learn about these cars.

You could take several areas for each car and give them points based upon the desirability of the option then weigh each option, for example a Firehawk will alwys be worth more than a Convertible etc.


10pts 91-92 Firehawk
10pts 89 TTA
9 pts 87-92 L98
8.5pts 87-92 LB9/M5
8pts 85 LB9/A4
7pts 86-92 LB9/A4
6.5pts 83-86 L69 (HO)
5pts 82-83 CFI
4pts 82-87 LG4 or 88-92 LO3
3pts 82-92 V6
1pt 82-86 I4

10pts ASC PRODUCTION Convertible
9pts ASC NON-PRODUCION Convertible
7pts Autoform Convertible
6pts All other Convertibles
3pts T-tops
2pt Hard Top

Options:
.5pt Power Windows
.5pt Power Locks
.5pt Power Mirrors
.5pt Cruise
1pt AC
10pts 1LE - no other options

Of course there are exceptions BUT that is the rule of thumb.

John

 

I think the value of the clean, low mile cars will increase, but nothing like the 1st gens. There is alot of stupid money being spent on the older muscle cars and I've already started seeing the prices come down on 1st Gens.

Every time I take my car out to just cruise it, the younger generation are in awe at the condition and how "cool" the car is. The people spending stupid money on the 1st gens are the people that were old enough to own one new and want that 1st car feeling/memory again. The 3rd gens were new when todays 30 somethings were in high school. They remember the cars, loved 'em then and for those that didn't own them, wish they could've. What alot of people here think about the 3rd gens as trailer transmaros and such was an image cast during the mid 90s, not the 80s. During the 80s, these were the cars to have. If you had a Z28, IROC-Z, GTA or TA when they were new, you had the coolest car on the road. As more of the trash starts to deplete from the streets, people will start looking for them and find that they need to own one to see it regularly. I also think the trailerpark image will fade in a few years. Once they decide to remove them from blocks and replace them with a 4th gen on blocks!

 

Scott,
I remember when the 1st gens were in the "Trash Status" All cars go through it to some extent, the obvious non-rule-of-thumb are the Gran Nationals, the GNX's the TTA's the Firehawks, but even those 5 to 10 years ago were not as valuable as they are now... I happen to have a hemmings from 1989 that shows that there were also plenty of 1st gens that were asking a ton of money, but the cars were 20 years old, being almost 20 years later our cars are coming into their own and I suspect they will take a similar course. THe first gens I see in Hemmings was very much like we are seeing with the pristine 3rd gens like the low miles IROC-Zs, Z-28s, Firehawks, TTA's and GTA's of today... Unforunately I cannot locate that book which haunted my desk for so long...


What I find interesting is the Mustangs of the 80s held value for so long they really seemed to be selling for more than a comperable F-body, within the last few years I have seen a shift and those late 80's mustangs are selling for less and less where our cars are acutally turing in the other direction. I suspect it may have to do with the new mustang, I can only hope the new camaro does not have the same effect on the older camaros which I suspect it will... Personally I wish they would have abaondoned the camaro altogether and if rumors are true I am delighted that the Firebird will not return. 4th gens will become increasingly rare because they used so much plastic in the car that keeping that plastic from deteriorating may become daunting.

2nd gens I feel are possibly the least attractive, save the 70-73 models out of all of the years the F-body line was produced. The values of those cars from 74-81 show, they were slow, they were not overly attractive, and with the exception of the Bandit cars I think our cars are matching or surpassing them for value today.

Personally I believe the 3rd gen has possibly the most to offer in the future. THe Corvette from 84-96 was over produced, and too many people saved them, the market is flooded with them, and I see up here at lest almost as many for sale, with some exception they are only slightly more than a comperable 3rd gen right now.

The cars that will really suffer the most are those that are non-performance orientated, For example a IROC with an LO3 or LG4 will not nearly be worth what a L98 car will bring. I believe this is a matter of fact and less fiction just due to history and looking at cars of the past....

 

i have a article here that outlines some of the more valuable and collectable 3rd gens

1st- Croyco Camaro
2nd SLP versions
3rd R7U,1LE,B4C in that order
4th Conertables
5th Pace cars

here is some other info that will dig further in to a collectable car.

Color, Black and Red are the most sough after
Mileage, the lower the better
Doccumentation, it brings peace of mind and extra value
Option ,he who has the most wins
Originality, all original is best excpet for a few exceptions
Engine, the bigger the better
Trans, this is a toss up, 5 speeds are fun, but we couldnt get a 350 with it

However i did speak to a guy one day who claimed he had a 1988 iroc 350 5 speed t top, i laughed in his face, he said he bought it new that way, so after a bit of a heated argument he explained what happend he did buy it brand new from the lot in 1988, and after 3 months the car was completly recalled, there was approx 6 or 12 cars that had the 350 5 speed he couldnt remember the exact number. But he never took the car back for the recall and ended up selling it to purchase his house, he said that he still has the recall notice so id like to get it from him and make some copies up. Now that would be a rare car.

 

and can't for get the GTA Notchbacks!

 

This is both funny and true. You'll see the early 4th gen image start to suffer soon as the 3rd gen image improves.

 

Now there's one I'd have to see to believe. Rare indeed!

 

That 350 manual would be rare - Especially since ZERO were made :-)

 

I agree with you...kind of...

Croyco Camaro??? Never heard of it, and if its that rare then you should include the 3 Supercharged Formula 350's made in 1988...

R7U - Players Challenge???
B4C - did not many of these include the 1LE package as well?

You seem to have forgotten that the TTA also included the 1LE package and it is a pace car, so is that before or behind the slower R7U cars.

I know you included the "SLP" Cars, but they technically only made 25 of those, the RPO is B4U, and less than 20 fo them actually had the RPO, all of the color cars and #1 do not have the RPO.

The SLP package on the other hand was a dealer installed item its not much different than my Formula 350 Convertible from that standpoint. Although it was installed at a dealer technically they did not roll off the line with them, I am not sure what the SLP package will do for the value of those cars installed with it in the future... There is NO RPO for the SLP package...

The 6 or 12 M5/L98 cars in 1988... I too would be interested in the information these cars would definately be worthy of documenting, not to mention IF they came with the correct VIN & SPID sheet.


John

 

So part way through the discussion he pulls a line of crap out of his ***. That whole story sounds like bullshit to me. I had similar discussions with idiots like that myself. They always swear they are right, but never cough up any proof.

 

Croyco Camaro???? Can someone please provide more information?

R7U is a players Challenge car?

 

i think i a few years (maybe 5-10) the special optioned 3rd gens will command more bucks.
for instance, the converts, irocs, GTA's, obviously the players challenge cars, the police cruisers, and 1LE's and TTAs will be going up. hell, ive been lusting after these cars ever since my freshman year, and much to my dismay, they keep getting more expensive. the reason im not happy about that is because i love these cars, and the more $$$ they cost me, the less i have in my driveway and garage!

 

the info about the cars is what i had in my files and i wasent thinking of other cars thismonring be4 work lol it was early i was tired but yes the notchbacks, and the TTA are also very rare.

and as far as i recall the B4C police cars did not have the 1LE option

yes R7U is the players challenge option and was only avalabe in canada.

the croyco i googled and found some info on but not much

as for the 350 5 speed car the guy did seem quite knowledgeable about 3rd gens and didnt come accrosss as thou he was trying to feed me a line of BS usualy its quite easy to tell if there feeding ya a line, hence the heated discussion that came be4 hand.

id like to meet him ahain and get the recall letter from him as it would prove this myth one and for all.

if ya wana call me a lyer or say im off my rocker then giv'r but seeing as so many other oddball cars came from GM in the 80's with weird options i wouldnt put this past them.

he said the car was an 88, if im not mistaken was 88 the first year of the WC T5 transmissions? mabe they decided to try the WC behind the 350?

 

I got in a debate about this the other day with a guy arguing that 3rd and 4th gen Fbody's would never be worth anything because there were too many of them made and that reduced the value of them because they weren't "rare" enough.

I argued that an Fbody is an Fbody and that both the third and 4th gen cars would be just as much "collectibles" as the first gen models given enough time.

Sure, there were 100's of thousands of these things made, but the real question is, how many of them will there be left in 20-30 years? I'd bet a good 25% or more of these third gen's are sitting in scrap yards right now rusted beyond recognotion. They're total right-off's that are well beyond the point of being able to restore. They're lost and gone forever. How many thousands have already been crushed? How many have been wrapped around tree's in accidents and then stripped down and sold off for parts?


That's right now in 2006. I'd bet nearly 50% of all 3rd gen's are no longer in existance.... Imagine how many 3rd gen's will have been lost 20 years from now?

It's pretty damn rare to see a 3rd gen in these parts now a days. Even more rare to see one in really good condition. Most of them I see on the roads are already rusted out and/or looking like they're about to give up the ghost at any given moment. It's sad to see these cars in such bad shape because I still remember how cool they were when they first came out and I was just a kid. I loved these cars. They were the "muscle-cars" of my generation and I remember all my classmates wanting either an IROC or GTA when we were younger..

Give it time. They'll go up in price as time goes by. It's inevatable.

You might not think so, but how many guy's in the ,late 60's/early 70's thought their Camaro's/Firebirds would one day sell on auctions for like, 50x the cost of the origional car when they first came out?

 

id bet that 30 years ago no one would have ever thought a 67-69 camaro or bird would be worth anything, now a days there highly valued and with auctions such as barrett jackson it just keeps driving the price upwards

 

I don't know how much our cars will be worth in 20 years, but I'm not really planning on selling mine. I do hope there is more of an aftermarket in 20 years as far as getting parts to restore these cars, especially the '82-'84's. And if the Crossfire is so undesireable, then why do people always want alot for them?

 

I remember back in late 81 or so, a friend at work bought a new 82 TransAM, full option, red, Crossfire, T-tops, all the goodies with the esposed turbine wheels, first one in the area. We took a drive through town, people stopped in their tracks, jaws dropped, girls waved, all that stuff. Man, what a car. (darn shame GM has dropped the ball lately) These cars started off a whole new era I think and would sure retain some of that interest. FWIW when he traded the car off two years later it would hardly run, that Crossfire did what it was known for.

 

Well, I have to diagree to some extent here. There will always be variables and worth something is diffrent to everyone. Worth something is 10,000 to one and 1000000 to another. With that said how about the prices of some of the 70' mistakes. Vegas, Pintos, Gremlin and the Cricket (forgot that one didnt you). The prices of these are shooting up. The diffrnces will be made in the condition of the vehicle. I dont think you will have to wait 30 years either.

 

THere is a nitche for everything....

BEFORE you all go off the handle arguing how many Firebirds or Camaros were made then lets look at some statistics:
Yr Firebird Camaro
67 82560 220906
68 107112 235147
69 87708 243085
70 48739 124901
71 53125 114630
72 29951 68651
73 46313 96751
74 73729 151008
75 84063 116021
76 110775 182959
77 155735 218853
78 187294 247437
79 211453 233802
80 107340 131066
81 70899 109707
82 116362 148649
83 74884 175004
84 128304 207285
85 95880 206082
86 110463 173674
87 88587 122761
88 62455 93617
89 64404 110034
90 20532 77599
91 30320 51974
92 25180 64444
93 14112 40224
94 51523 124121
95 56723 98806
96 32799 66866
97 32692 58152
98 33578 48806
99 36219 41412
00 31826 41962
01 ????? 29009
02 ????? 41776

1st Gens:
Firebirds = 277,380 - Avg per year - 92,460
Camaros = 699,138 - avg per year - 233,046

2nd Gens
Firebirds = 1,179,416 - Avg per year - 98,285
Camaros = 1,795,786 - Avg per year - 149,649

3rd Gens
Firebirds = 817,361 - Avg per year - 74,306
Camaros = 1,431,123 - Avg per year - 130,102

4th Gens
Firebirds = 289,472 - Avg per year - 36,184 ( Thru 2000 only )
Camaros = 591,134 - Avg per year - 59,113

FACTS!!!
Therefore:
PER YEAR average there were less 3rd gens made than 1st or 2nd gens
There were less 4th gens made than 1st gens


With that above it is obvious that the Number produced has NOTHING to do with the desirability of a car. There were OBVIOUSLY less 1970 cars made than 1969... BUT the 1969 cars are more desirable. SO apparently rarity is NOT an effective means to soley determine the value of a car.

For those perople that say that there were so many 4th gens made and they will not be worth anything... Keep in mind that there were about the same number of 4th gens made as 1st gens.

The early 2nd gens are beginning to take off in value. The later 2nd gens have not come into their own and they by far were probably the most underpowered much like the early 3rd gens.

According to my "2002 Cars+Parts Ulitmate Collector car Price Guide" You see a lull in the prices of Firebirds from '75 - '86 and Camaros from '74 thru '86. Its not the END-ALL for information but it is definately interesting.

Not including SD's Firehawks, 89 TTA's
The most sought after F-body - 1969 Trans Am Convertible
The most sought after 2nd Gen - 1970
The most sought after 3rd Gen - 1992 LB9 Convertible

According to the book A 1991-2 Trans Am Convertible is valued at about the same as a 1970 Trans Am.

I think I see a lot of potential, dispite what some of you think.

John

 

Wow, 79 was a monster year for Firebirds. Smokey and the Bandit? And I've looked before into this and the 78 Camaro that was the all time big seller, sold mostly smaller V8 cars, much less six banger and Z28 versions. And the numbers for those two are pretty equal to the forth gen cars per year. So if GM had produced a medium size V8 car for the forth gen series? Who knows, maybe we'd still have Camaros in the showroom. Decent priced rear wheel drive sporty car with good power and 30 mpg would have sold well I'd think.

 

Yes Smokey & the Bandit played a huge roll in the late 70's Firebird line. This was not a ploy by Pontiac rather it worked out well for them...

Likewise I believe the success of the early 3rd gen firebirds may be attributed to Knight Rider. Once again Pontiac reaps the benefits of having a car on the screen.

I know in 2004 or 2003 Pontiac tried to kindle the flames for the new GTO by actually trying to produce a movie... unfortunately the movie sucked and the way the movie was advertised it was all about the "New GTO" I think if they actually would have made a good movie and used a GTO it would have worked out better for them... kind of like putting the Carrage before the Horse.

John

 

Actually, if you look at the production numbers on the 79 Firebird line, there were 211,000 total, 150,000 of which were T/A's. So, I think the market had definitely changed by the time the 4th gen came around. Seems like about 80% of 4th gen's were base model 6 cylinder cars.

 

i remember that! wasnt it a made for tv movie though? at the time i thought it was awesome.