Ok, heres the deal. I have two cars, an 85 base Firebird, and an 87 Formula. Each has its pros and cons but only one can be fully completed and if you read on you'll see why...

1985 Pontiac Firebird
Originally 2.8 v6
Pros:
My aunt bought it brand new in 1984
Has been in my family since it was new
Swapped in a carbed 355 (see sig) Only has about 150 miles on it since built.
Newly rebuilt 700r4
Nice interior
Nice body (needs paint)
85,xxx miles
Cons:
As it sits is NOT legal for street use
Base model
Emissions controls have been removed or disabled
Hardtop

1987 Formula
Pros:
Got it for $300
305 TPI
T-Tops!
All emissions control devices are intact and functional
All power options
140MPH speedo
"Big" factory gauges
WS6
New flowmaster exhaust
Nice interior
Unmolested engine, or TPI system

Cons:
150,000 miles
Engine smokes (probably valve guide seals)
Car has salvage certificate because it was formerly abandoned
Fenders and quarters are slightly dented
Front and rear bumper covers are in bad shape
700r4 slips a bit

Now, not that a salvage certificate is a bad thing because in Pa you can turn that into a reconstructed title. However, down the road if I were to sell this vehicle with an R-title, it may chase people away.
I have gotten past the sentimental value of having a car which was in my family since it was new but keeping it would make it that much cooler.
Also, the novelty of T-Tops have faded since they leak and the interior has gotten wet. That coupled with the prices I have been quoted for the weatherstripping/ seal kits, im pretty much over them. This is a tough decision which has been weighing on my mind for sometime and I hoped to get some of your opinions on here. In the end I want to have a nice car you can get in, turn the key and drive. Also passing safety and emissions inspection annually LEGALLY (I work in law enforcement) is a main concern to me. Maybe some of you have been in this situation or a similar one previously and can lend me some insight. Also, I have a garage and am very versed in auto mechanics. Stripping down and reassembling both of these cars is not above me. Thanks for listening. -Bob

 

How much body work does the Formy need? T-tops, love them or hate them. I have two t-top cars, given the right conditions, they both leak.

Is re-sale of concern to you? Or just a nice leagal driver? Given all you've listed, if it were my project, I'd probably lean toward swapping of the FI and emmissions systems from the Formy to the Bird. Sounds easy but I know that this is quite a project in itself.

Good luck with your choice.

 

What are you wanting to do?

If you want something to be collectable I would gather that the Formula would have more potential because it was an original TPI car, with T-tops, the fact that it has T-tops and an automatic and it is a Formula makes me think that it is a pretty rare car as the formula was suposed to be NA in 1987 with T-tops LB9 & A4 trans. Much more common was the LB9/M5/T-tops. Later years the option combination was more available but for some reason Pontiac decided that the T-tops/LB9/A4 was not going to happen on the Formula.

I would be interested to see if anyone else comes up with a car with that combo for a 1987. Of course does it have Factory Tops or C&C tops? The Factory Seal kits are a bit pricy, 10 years ago tehy were $189.00 for the complete kit, I could pick up two of them now for what they are selling for. The GM restoration ones suck severly, or at least they did. the original GM ones are the ones to get.

The 1985 unfortuately was a V6 car, and not many people will be interested in that in the future with a V6, its a fact and to debunk any idea that the V6 might be worth more becaues it gets better fuel economy is fooling themselves as the V6 only got about 1 MPG better... The fact that it has a 355 is a huge plus BUT it has another engine as original making it a little less desirable than an original v8 moreso apparently it has the base interior with the idiot lights rather than the gage package so the remenants of the V6 are still there.

My personal opinion is to take the car that is in the BEST condition and then restore it from there. Take parts and pieces that you do not need and sell them on ebay to offset the cost of fixing up the other.

But thats me.

 

Take the formula dude, most buyers dont even look at base models even if they are heavily modified. I know i wouldn't...Id question the modifications

Not sure if your wanting to sell any of them if thats what your after

 

Thanks for the responses. Collect-ability is not a major concern to me. Neither is re-sale value. I plan on keeping whichever car for a long time. I swapped the motor in the 1985 about 5 years ago. I've had my fun in my firebird base but wanted something with a bit stiffer suspension and more options (like power and t-tops, gages, etc.). So I heeded the advice of the members on this board (in others posts) and picked up a parts car. Enter the 87 formula. It looked great, salvage car, unmolested TPI and WS6 package. As I got looking at the car it became more apparent that this car was in great shape. Some of the things that stuck out in my mind were the accuracy/ presence of the spare tire assembly, functionality of the headlight motors, presence of the t-top bag, and the RPO sticker. These indications showed that the car was well cared for plus the pile of service receipts in the rear compartment area helped to support that. Plus, tires were like brand new as are the brakes. The salvage certificate was due to abandonment by the previous owner, which I had found to be a bad fuel pump and have since replaced.

It would be neat to have a somewhat "rare" third gen. Okfoz, I believe the t-tops to be factory GM. They are glass tops if that helps you any. I also agree that the TPI formula with t-tops is rare. Basically I can only have one of these cars in storage because space IS an issue. What do you guys think.
-Bob

 

Formula, If your going to restore a car do the very best you can. Take it apart fix what need to be fixed and put it back in shape. I think the formula is the best choice

 

Ok, I think that im going to finish the formula. Im gonna swap the 355 longblock into it, find some other heads close to the cc size of the vortecs, put stock exhaust manifolds and plant the TPI on top. I will sell my holley carb, vortec heads, headers and edelbrock performer intake to offset the price of parts for the formula. I guess I didnt realize how special the Formula was in comparison to the base model firebird. I am going to begin this process in the next week or so. I will keep you guys posted. Again, thanks for the insight. -Bob

 

Tough call if you ask me, both need a lot of work and it depends on if you like the coupe or tip tops. If it were me, I would go Formula, good luck in which path you choose. Andrew

 

Scoggin Dickey has an intake for the Vortec Heads to use TPI...

John

 

Okfoz, thank you. I am aware that they vortec/ TPI lower intake is available. That is another alternative I have been considering, but i'm not sure if the initial expense will be worth it in the end. I have seen the dyno results of TGO members who have a setup like you are describing. The numbers are impressive, but at this point I am not sure I can justify purchasing a 460.00 + shipping intake. Possibly, like you said I will sell remaining parts to offset the cost of this intake manifold. -Bob

 

ok, first off let ma say i completely understand the difficulty of the choice as i will be getting an 85 from my brother, and i already have an 83 i love.
the t-top leak issue is actually an easy fix (i'm not a mechanic or even slightly mechanical but...) i have an 83 that the seals are trash, however i found if you remove the plastic surrounding the latch catch on front and back (only one screw BTW), the catch plate is adjustable and can be lowered to tighten the seal eliminating the leak and also cutting out wind noise. granted they can be adjusted only so much but this can stave off the cost of the seals until its affordable. that said....which car do you "feel" when you drive it? unlike many other choices in life the gut won't help here listen to you hands, feet and yes your ***...lol seriously though.

 

The "Car Order Worksheet" was a tricky thing to decifer. Even many dealers couldn't interpret it properly. It had to be read very carefully regarding the N/As with certain combinations when spec'ing orders. And one of those apparently difficult-to-interpret combinations was a Formula with LB9/auto/t-tops.

T-tops were available on a Formula with LB9/auto, just not on one with 4-wheel disc brakes("N.A. w/LB9 Engine w/Auto Trans w/J65 Four Wheel Disc Brakes on Formula"). So with the standard drum brakes, you could have a Formula with LB9/auto/t-tops.

Egg83, so it sounds like your choice is about having t-tops or not having them, and not whether you're left with a Formula or a base model when you're finished. So since you have two cars with interchangeable parts, just let one be the donor for the other.

The mileage of your original car doesn't mean much anymore because you've swapped the engine and rebuilt the tranny. So then, other than for the original car's good body panels, there's really no reason to keep it for its originality.

So if you think you can deal with the t-tops, then I think I'd take the good body panels, along with the engine block and tranny from the base model(since that's really all it has to offer) and swap them onto the Formula... like you've decided to do.

Otherwise, if you really wanted to keep the hardtop car, then I'd swap all the Formula-specific parts over to the base model, including: sway bars, instrument panel, hood, spoiler, seats(if better), wheels, intake, etc.

*Edit: and yes, Egg83, your t-tops are factory.

 

LA, I forgot about that one little exception, thanks


John

 

LAFireboyd,
You're right. It really is down to either having a t-top or a hard top car. I thought about it over the weekend and I'm going finish the t-top car (formula). The bodies on both have their quirks but ill just need to take the fenders and bumper covers off of the hard top car for the formula. I just began saving for the Vortec, TPI lower intake, 22lb injectors and 5.7 knock sensor to get the ball rolling on the drive train. Thanks for the advice everyone, sometimes it just makes more sense when you have other people to bounce it off of. Thats what I like about this message board! -Bob