Hi, I posted this in another section but did not get a reply - any help would be appreciated.



Hello all,

I recently went and looked at a 88' GTA for sale a few miles from my house (Detroit burbs) that is advertised locally and for sale by a private owner. The car has 49K original miles - very good interior, brand new perfect factory color paint job (2 months old about 3K cost) with new emblems, perfect wheels and tires (factory) and 350 engine. The guy wants 8500 and says its worth 10K in the summer. I don't know what the car is worth. The car has 3 issues that make me think it is not a good deal -
1. Digital dash issue - the oil pressure gauge does not read (lights up and cycles when car is powered up) when it is cold out side - owner says gauge works fine in warm weather. It could be a gauge issue or a oil sender problem.
2. Headliner material is starting to sag a bit (rest of interior is perfect) - owner says it can be fixed for $200.00
3. Windshield has one bullseye - it can be reapired but has not been done.

If these items are fixed I would say the car is in show condition then - is the $8500 price tag too high. I was under the car and it has no rot, rust or anything - it looks like a 2 year old car down under.

 

The market was definitely down on these cars this year because of the economy and gas prices and the fact that it's winter now drives the prices down even more. It's tough to say what the car is worth right now but I would say it's at least a little overpriced. My guess would maybe be $6000 to $7500, possibly even less than that. (I would agree with the seller that if the market comes back up on them a 50k mile GTA could be worth $10k but it's hard to say when it will bounce back. I don't really think it will be next year.) While some of the problems you listed are minor, I wouldn't touch that car until I knew for sure the oil pressure problem is something other than the engine. More than likely it's a sensor or gauge problem but you definitely don't want to be spending good money on a car that may have an engine problem.

 

Me, personally, for $8500 I expect a thirdgen that is MINT and needs absolutely nothing. Not one little thing. The headliner isn't a big deal, if it's just sagging and the foam isn't destroyed or anything, it can be pulled out and re-glued, do it yourself and use some good spray adhesive and it won't cost but $5 and take an afternoon of your time.

The digital dash issue concerns me; if it is registering when you turn the car on, but then doesn't, there is a good possibility that the sending unit is going bad, and that is easy and cheap to replace. If it is the display though, unless you can find a parts one or a known good one, it's probably big $$$ to fix. The factory service manual doesn't even say how to fix it; it is non-repairable. If you can get a good LCD screen, though, you CAN take it apart but you have to be extremely careful doing it.

Just the headliner and windshield alone would stop me from paying $8500 for a thirdgen, unless it's a TTA or Firehawk or 1LE. Those are worth the money even if they need a couple things, but not a regular GTA.

 

That's it, it's a GTA and it's overpriced.

 

I would post this up on the gtasourcepage and get some opinions from pure GTA owners and if you can get some pics of it, that would help people with the advise.

 

NADA $8,635
KBB $3,340
Edmunds $1,536

Value is probably closer to $8635 in MI. The new paint would really concern me. Check the rear spoiler if your interested, if it is fiberglass then that is one thing but if it has the original spoiler that is another tell tale sign. The original spoilers were notorious for splitting and cracking. If it is still the heavy weight Urethane spoiler then the car is in decent condition. If it has been replaced it really may mean nothing BUT, you may inquire to why it was replaced. Check the floorboards, the underside should look really good with no rust on it for that kind of money. Under the hood should look all stock and not glossed up with silicone. That Silicone crap makes a mess out of engine bays.

Honestly, have him get the windshield repaired, if he has insurance it should pay for it if he has comp. The headliner is a Saturday afternoon thing, There is a nice upholstery store in Grand Blanc that has just about every headliner color in the world (or at least they did) Chances are the foam has deteriorated, and no matter how much glue you use it will not stay for long. Repair is easy, no matter what... Remove headliner from car, peal old material, use WIRE brush to clean old foam off, spray Headliner spray adhesive (3M 90 works but is more expensive) on both the headliner and the material, apply material then trim with scissors & a razor blade. then Install...

The Dash, there are places that do repair them. Unfortunately you do not know if it is the sender or the IP. Until you tear into it you probably will not know either.

As for $10K in the summer, possibly, honestly it will depend on how Obama treats the economy and whether or not he pushes us into a Depression. Start taxing anyone right now and its all over, might as well find a nice box to live in as EVERYONE will get hurt, it will cause horrible inflation.

Personally if your looking at the car because you like the car then that is one thing. Personally I think if you take your time you could find a better deal out there. The paint is the biggest red light. Get on autotrader.com, and try craigslist.com ebay, cars.com (not so much).

You get the point. Keep your eyes open and do not pass up on a good deal.

Keep in mind that you will spend TONS more if you get a $1000 car and fix it up, vs getting one done. BUT you will gain so much knowledge that it will amaze you. So ultimately it depends on what you want to do. As for the GTA... try Frankie Rider's page www.gtasourcepage.com Learn what you can.



John

 

Thanks for the info . The car does look wonderful but I kind of thought for 8K it should need nothing at all. The rear spoiler is a new replacemnt style and the paint was just done 2 mounths ago - the owner told me it was faded and the car had a few door dings. The under side is as clean as I have seen - but the items needing repairs is probably the deal breaker. Just want the best car for my money - would like a car to atke to local cruise nights / shows.

Thanks again,

 

I responded to your previous thread in the Electronics forum about the digital dash. Two of my Third Gens have the digital dash and when the engine is first started, the oil pressure display will show no reading because its "off the scale" due to fast idle and thicker oil making the oil pressure around 60 PSI (max the display can show). Once the fast idle comes down and the engine heats up the oil, the oil pressure display will then show a reading.

If the oil pressure display is "seeing" oil pressure reading above 60 PSI (the max it can display) it simply won't show any segments. In a sense, it will appear to not work.

When you first turn the key to ON, engine OFF, do all the segments in the oil pressure display light up? After a few seconds, all segments should disappear and you then should see the red (bottom) segment on for 0 PSI. Do you?

The operation of the oil pressure display/sending unit is fairly simple. You can help pinpoint the issue by disconnecting the oil sending unit wire and grounding it. Then turn the key to ON, but engine OFF. This should result in a 0 PSI reading. If you still see no reading on the oil display, then there is a break in the circuit, or bad ground, or the oil pressure display is faulty.

According to Frankie's figures, slightly more than half of the 1988 GTAs came equipped with the digital cluster. The digital dash was also an option in 1987 on the GTA/Trans AM and 1986 Trans AM as well. The most common issue I've seen with the digital cluster is the odometer readout being garbled.

 

Thanks for all the help. When the car is first started up the guage lights up and pointer shows high gauge reading - then the pointer falls down and completely off the gauge. Yes, the odeometer reading also has a few burned out segments on 2 separate columns. Do you think a 8K car should have these kind of issues or am I asking for too much in this price range?? How much does it cost to rebuild the a digital dash?

 

I would be curious about a few things.

1) What kind of paint did he use. El Cheepo crap, or did he spend the money on Sherwin-Williams, Dupont, or PPG? I suspect if he intended to "Flip" the car he probably settled on a lesser grade.

2) Does he have BEFORE pics, and some pics during the repaint.

One thing that I know is that the nice cars are becoming fewer and fewer... Although the price does seem a little high with the economy the way it is and the time of year...

I have to ask, Does it have Factory T-tops? I suspect not for 1988, but you never know...

John

 

3 years ago I went looking for a third gen. I went and looked at a GTA that was beat to hell. The guy had just put in a new engine and trans, but the tire were bald, the interior looked like crap and the spoiler was cracked. He told me 3000.00 and I laughed and wished him luck. 2 weeks later, after reality had set in, he told me to make him a offer. I had already paid 1600.00 for a Firebird in perfect shape. Not a GTA, it was a Formula, but in good shape. Give him a couple of weeks of staring at for sale sign. He may not want to sell, he may figure if he sells it he will get X or he will just keep. Good way to get the wife off your ***.

 

Personally, 2 of the three issues are not even a concern. The windshield and the headliner. The headliner foam deteriorates over time and starts to drop. My 87 with 14k miles lost the foam in the visors. It happens, even on a mint show condition car. I bought my car for $10k and it had a check engine light, tranny leak and needed new tires. The miles were low and I knew the issues weren't that extreme when I bought the car.

Back to the issue of show quality and problems... My car has needed a new fuel pump, tires, belts, hoses, visors, AC recharge, EGR, Ujoint, Rear main seal and fuel pump relays! The car is 22 years old, expect some things to need repairs.

 

Here is how the digital cluster, normally, behaves during key ON, engine OFF and then initial engine startup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxiAcQ1GsU

You can see when the key is first turned ON, engine OFF, all segments in the oil pressure display (4th display from L-R) will illuminate. Once that occurs, on both of my Third Gens with the digital dash, the oil pressure display pointer drops down to the red zone - if you wait before starting the engine. You then hear the system beep from the cluster to alert the driver of a gauge out of range (0 PSI).

Once the engine starts, as you can see, the oil pressure display drifts in and out on the top range because the oil pressure display is only capable of display ~60PSI.

You said that it reads high, then falls off. How long does that take?

 

Hi the owner seems to be very honest about the car - he had the car painted by a local shop known for high quality custom work (autorama cars - high dollar restorations). He gave me the shop owner name and encouraged me to call and ask any questions I want about the paint. Also said the owner will warranty the work against any defects since the paint is new.
I watched the vidoe of the digital dash and this car starts out the same way with a pointer at the top but then it just drops down to the bottom and disappears not to return. The motor sounds good - no knocks ticks or smoking. No "T" tops on this car - the owner has come down from $8500 to $8000 but says it is his bottom line. I still think I will pass on this deal.

 

Honestly, if the car is as nice as you say, and you can get some information backing up that the car is not a repainted rustbucket, then 8K may not be too far out of line for the car.

My main concern would be the paint, the Windshield, headliner and the Dash are all minor things. Personally it would depend on a few things...
1) are you interested in the car for yourself or to just flip it.
a) If your interested in it ONLY to flip it then $8K is out of line
b) If you want a nice car then it does not sound out of line.

Keep in mind that there are MANY MANY people here that started with a lesser car and then thought they could "Fix it up" by themselves only to have $20K into it. Heck if I had to do it all over again, I could have saved myself a TON of money by buying a car all DONE... Unfortunately I would not know what I know.

2) How mechanically inclined are you? If you have owned a 3rd Gen before then that is one thing, if your new to them that is another.

Where around Detroit is it? If it was not too far away I might be inclined to look at it myself and tell you what I thought. I am in Flint, so preferably North West side... Not saying I will, but I would consider it if it was close enough.

John

 

I would be buying the car to keep - weekend show and cruises. Dreamcruise and other events. I don't plan on selling the car but would like to be able to get most of my money back out of the car if needed. I just don't want to pay 8K for a car that is really worth 5K. I have seem some 4th gen cars arount 8-9K but they have higher miles and are not mint. The car is in Shelby Twp - just north of Sterling Hgts
Does anyone know of a better car for the money for sale?

Thanks,

 

I just bought my black 88 GTA Notchback 350TPI for $6200 from a local dealer. They wanted $7,000 but we talked them down. The car needed some things when I got it. What was wrong with it was that when you braked, the front end wobbled around,and it had a horrible stopping distance. I had to run a red light the front brakes were so ****ed up that I couldn't stop in time... The engine started up ruff, when it did start, and the headliner was sagging. The dealer was awesome enough to replace the front calipers and brake lines, and payed a local interior shop to replace the headliner with new stuff. Then I had to pay $1,300 to have the engine checked out, refreshed, and the fuel pump replaced. Then there were a couple of dings and imperfections on the paint. I payed $200 to have all but one ding that isn't possible to get out because of location taken out at dent doctor. The car came with an aftermarket pioneer head unit, and Boston acoustics speakers. And also, that Digital Dash is ANNOYING AS ****. All it does is beep because i wants me to replace every single light bulb on the car.... But now the interior is mint, the exterior is almost mint, and its awesome. Oh I had to replace both fog light lenses and bulbs to, but now they are Christal clear, and bright white. Now I need new pads for all the brakes because they are starting to squeek. But just besides the occasional little squeek from the brake pads, the car drives like a million bucks now the engine purrs, and it handles great. If I were you I would probably buy the car. Especially if the underside is clean and it has new paint. It must be a ****in looker. OH and my cars oil pressure gauge is some how screwed up to. It just stays up around 60lbs at all times. anyway Test drive it before you buy it, and make sure you are happy. Oh make sure that the headlights go up and down to. the driver side motor just went on mine, and needs to be rebuilt. I'm just giving you an idea of what I got with my money, and it was well worth it.

here is a video of my car before I had the dings and the fuel pump fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq0GxGWviw0

 

offer 5k and walk away, something tells me he will call u within a day to come and get it.

 

That is just it. Finding nice Third Gens is almost impossible any more. Look on Autotrader.com that's probably your best bet.

MI is a lousy state to live right now!

John

 

Maybe the car is not that far off in price after all - it has a new master cylinder, fuel pump and filter, and both headlight motors have been rebuilt ( all this work was done just before paint - Oct). I could not drive it due to poor weather the day I looked at it. The owner claims car is quick - what kind of performance do the 88' with 350 motor and 3:27 axle have?

Thanks,

 

Stock form around 15 Seconds in the quarter better if tuned... The 88 & 89 actually had the best cam, it was more agressive than the 90-92...

There is a ton of things you can do to improve performance.

 

You paid $6200 for a car that ran rough and needed $1300 in work to run right?

 

BTW, in regards to the cost of the repairs. If the owner doesn't have insurance on the car and won't get the windshield replaced for free, then wait until you have it insured and get it done. The headliner can cost anywhere from $100 to $350. I called around in my area and mobile headliner repair people were quoting me $150 for headliner, visor and sail panel work. I found a shop that does custom interiors for show cars and such and was quoted $300. I'm willing to use the pro at the higher cost than a guy that works out of his truck and low ***** the industry. You get what you pay for. I'd say if the car looks new, then $8k isn't bad at all.

When listening to people here, you need to consider what they think is mint condition. I hear people say that a car is in near mint condition and then show pictures of what I believe to be average for a 20 year old car. It might be in above average shape, but not near mint. Mint condition is assembly line new. I would consider my car in near mint condition as it does have minor flaws that most overlook, but they are there. So when comparing someone else's "near mint car for X dollars", you need to see the other car and compare for yourself based on your opinion of mint. The term mint comes from the coin collectors and shows a coin that has not been touched or is assembly line perfect. Unless a car shows like it just came of the assembly line, "mint" might b a little overstated.