RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

I just heard from a reliable source that the first 1992 Firebird built, the Jamaica Yellow 1LE Formula owned by PHS is going to be at Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach!

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...04%2f09%2f2009

Some of us know of a guy that is trying to bid on it, you know who I am talking about John...

TOM-1LE

JY and 1LE are a tempting combination! Although I think it would look better with black crosslace wheels.

I am curious to see what this car goes for, in the current market.

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

You know it's really up in the air. Does the current economic state really effect the majority of the cars sold on BJ? While granted, it has hit almost everyone, but BJ has never really been a good indicator of the real market value of our or any other cars. I would dare to say that it will end somewhere aroud $30K. I doubt that it will go much higher unless one of us shows up with a ton of money. The collector market just hasn't really touched our cars like the 60's and 70's A-Bodies and older Mopars. Also it seems that whenever a nice, rare ThirdGen comes accross BJ the true 3rdGen fans are just not there and a run of the mill collector buys it for a bargain bc no one is there to start a bidding war.
I knew GM was putting a lot of the Heritage cars on the block, but I did not know this car was part of it. Last I heard Jim Mattison was gonna try and keep this one.
We'll see.

t_towner

I was hoping this wasn't going to sneak up on the board until after the auction. (ha)

Would sure look good next to #1 1LE from 1991 but funds are kinda tight, I really don't need another and I sure don't want to step on the toes of the new owner!

BTW, the front fender has been professionally repainted. (not that it really matters.)

L695speed

If it was the 1LE JY TA which I believe is one of one. I would rob the bank and be there in a heartbeat.....and have T_towner banned from the auction That is unless he already has it.....

okfoz

I suspect it may still be a one of one.

&*%#!$&%* Where is that lost winning Lottery Ticket?

It literally breaks my heart that I cannot bid on it...


John

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Hmm. Frankly I have no real interest in 1992's, but it does sound pretty darn rare, just from the color/1LE alone. I wonder if I could buy it just for resale down the road. Pretty huge risk, for a car I'd never drive, but if the economy picks up, I could see the demand picking up. Anyone know how many miles on that car?

GT

t_towner

I don't really have the funds to purchase the car but I'd find them just to make sure this car doesn't go to a flipper trying to make a quick buck.

I don't want to ruffle feathers but this car deserves to go to someone who will take care and appreciate what it really is vs being purchased for a quick buck.

My 0.02 worth.....

Bowtiebruiser

Hell I'm not a big fan of the Poncho cars but I'd buy it just for the heritage behind it, a reminder of a bygone era

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'd love to have that bad boy...... Its soo much like the car I wanted 2 order.back in late 91 early 92.
I sooooooo wish my car could have been ordered and built....
I think I have the closest thing to what I wanted though so I'm happy.... for a while! lol

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

I agree with Greg completely. Please keep in mind, this is the First Firebird built in 92, VIN 2000001, Owned by GM since new, Jamaica Yellow, 1LE. Combine all that together and this should only go to a home equally as good as the home it is coming from. It needs to be properly taken care of and shown, and most of all preserved in it's current state. If someone buys it and drives it I may just loose my mind! Or whatever I might have left of it.
That is my .02

Firebird89ws6

What does the 1LE come equipped with? I'm fairly new to 3rd gens.

hawksthirdgen

Hey guys want to make a quick post to let all of you know HAWKS will be at BJ in april trying to add this to our stable of rare and low mile third gens so all of you rest easy knowing if it is at all possible it will be coming to a home that will truley appreciate the rare bird. It sure would look good sitting beside firehawk #24.
Wish me luck and thanks in advacne for your support.
Bruce
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com

okfoz

*****

Good luck with that... I thought you were SELLING cars to buy that special one... I must tell you that this is counter productive to achieving your goals.

John

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Good Luck Bruce and to all who are going for that car !!
This should be VERY interesting to see how this turns out!!

CaliChevyLover

the show is 10min from where im at...so ya i think i'll be goin

92RS(real slow)

good luck bruce hope you get if you do you gotta post up some pics, it would deffinently look amazing next to the firehawk

Bowtiebruiser

Good luck Bruce

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

I see it get 40-45k. Any one know the mileage on it?

okfoz

I think closer to $15K in this economy.

John

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I know the economy is in the dump but ya think its guna go that low?? Im hearing/thinking its worth 30??

t_towner

I'm by no means the expert on third gens but I'm willing to spend a bunch more than 15k.

Heck a Firehawk sold for 50k and was on the market less than 48hrs before a heafty deposit was put on the car........

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

If its out of the GM Historical collection i would have to believe it goes for way more than 15k..

okfoz

I guess you are probably right... 15K is probably low, I think it would surprise me if it went much over $30K... Definitely not $40K, there was a 92 Z28 that I seem to remember at the climax of the car craze a few years ago that sold for $42K and still is sitting on a dealers lot.

Remember (not to be a pessimist) all cars were at one time once owned by GM... Technically. This one is a really nice collectible, it will be interesting to see who gets it... I told Bruce I get first dibbs on it if he ever decided to sell it.

John

1991Formula350

It is going to be interesting to see what it goes for, It is a beautiful color, but it is a 305. Either way, this is a classic period! I will be the first to say if I was loaded I would have a garage full of these in different colors, maybe one day, never know. I just hope the buyer takes care of it. Put some R15's on it with yellow trim, that would be killer. Andrew

avro206

but it's a 305??? So....what. On a driver involvement scale---a manual trans (TPI) 305 is more fun to drive.

And only a hair slower then a 350.

This car is perfect. Love the rims with the yellow

Firebird89ws6

My 89 has a 5 speed and TPI. What is the difference between the 1LE and a regular formula with a 5 speed and the same 305?

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

the suspension, bigger brakes, aluminum driveshaft, a more Hi-po car. the 1Le Rpo code.

t_towner

IIRC that 1LE Camaro sold in 2006? Yes, that was WAY over market (and still is,) not to mention it went to a dealer. It was just a garden variety 1LE (relatively speaking.)

Compare to this yellow Formula.....a unique, somewhat historic car, #1 and only one. There are certain guys who don't really care what the "market" is, they just want it. In the grand scheme it doesn't matter if it's $30k or $50k, it's still the only one. A collector will pay above market just for the gotta have it factor.

Also, 2006 was just a few years ago yet firehawk prices have more than doubled in that time frame?

okfoz

1) Actually the JG1 Alum Drive shaft was available separately.
2) Beyond common thought the HP is identical to any other LB9/M5 from 1992. I have heard that these cars are like a COPO cars of the late 60's. BUT they did not have the extra power like those cars. As I understand it Many did get the benefit of specially balanced and blueprinted engines that ultimately feel more powerful. The extra performance comes from the car being lighter.
3) Larger FRONT Brakes, 1989_, only 1988 got larger rear brakes too... I will give that one to you.
4) Suspension to my knowledge is basically identical to the WS6 cars from 1986 - 1992. There was a difference in the struts and shocks however. AND there is rumor of a slightly smaller rear sway bar for some of the later 1LE's. Apparently there was a little bit of "Push" with the 24mm bar, so they changed it to 23mm to help balance the car.
5) The only other change was the Fuel tank had baffles to aid in allowing more fuel to be usable. The 1990 + fuel tank actually has the same part number. However there are people who say the 1990+ normal tanks do not have the baffles...

Ultimately the 1LE package consisted of:
1) Larger Front brakes (1989 - 1992)
2) Special Struts & Shocks
3) Special fuel tank.

This is the JY car to own, no question about it. But the big bucks days have waned for the time being. Speculation aside I am curious to see what happens.

T_towner would be the best to actually give a synopsis of what exactly was changed.

John

CaliChevyLover

im plannin on goin so i will try and get pics if i can

1991Formula350

I will go and take some photos as well, post them up when I return. I need to see a hawk in person one day to take some also for my collection. Andrew

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

Ehh I was close enough though.

okfoz

John

avro206

thanks for more pics

okfoz

I JUST got off the phone with Jim Mattison..

Bad news for ANYONE interested in this car. Apparently GM had the car issued with a JUNK title. The car would NEVER be able to be driven on public roads, never to be titled as a salvage or other type of car. GM in all of their wisdom has done this to all of the other cars that were sold in Scottsdale, AZ. There are some Angry buyers out there that when they got the title back after BJ, they CAN NOT drive the car.

Jim told me that he was really interested in purchasing the car, but now that he knows that he could not drive it he is no longer interested. Nonetheless, he is quite disappointed.

IF you are still interested, they may have changed the status of the car, so contact BJ, and see what they say.

I guess at this point, It is worthless IMHO

Have nice day

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

wow. ALL of them are worthless.. what a way to get screwed at Bj if you were a buyer, I guess they figure that they will have an easier way to get them back later.

also can some read me the vin number out?
it looks like an L or some strange mark before the 2.

1G2FS23F0NL200001

I want to run a carfax on it.

avro206

This makes almost no sense. How can GM issue a junk title--IF it is not true. I am assuming it wasn't heavily damaged at one point--and thats a somewhat reasonable assumption.

It has not been modified correct? GM sold the one millionth Saturn made--was it"junk" too?

Seems like a really lazy, completley misleading thing GM is doing. Can't they just sell "as is" and level and cerfication/registration up to owners?

I wonder if you spent enough on lawyers this could be overturned. On the basis it is NOT junk

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

Well John, come on, worthless? Maybe its just me but I would not even want to drive it, in all aspects of the term - this IS a trailer queen.

So you're saying that the car cannot be registered? How does one prove ownership then? And how can they legally transfer the car?

This car has to go to a home where it will be preserved and I am somewhat shocked that Jim has lost interest in it simply bc it can't be titled and driven. If there is no interest in buying this car, then GM will just scrap it, how would everyone feel about that?

TOM-1LE

GM's legal department is funny about stuff like this. They seem hyper-sensitive about selling cars for road use that are modified or not absolutely brand new. This is why nearly all of GM's test cars, preproduction builds and engineering mules are sent to the crusher.

In this car's case, my guess is that GM's lawyers are probably afraid that to sell a car with 17+ year old original parts for possible road use creates too much of a liability issue. After all, the car might not be 100% roadworthy. So, they are selling it with a title that will allow the car to be displayed, but not driven on public roads.

If there's any good news here, it's that we don't have to worry about someone buying the car and driving it into the ground now.

TOM-1LE

A "junk" title is still a legitimate title, so ownership can be proven that way. You just can't get license plates issued for it.

The car is still valid property, just not for use on public roads.

JT

iTrader: (1)

I think this goes to back to one of those threads where there are X people on the "it's meant to be driven" side and X people on the "collect, show and trailer it" side as far as if the car is worthless or if it hasn't lost (much) value.

If it is going to BJ, it most likely will have no reserve as that is the case for most of BJs cars. A lot of GM's cars at the last BJ event were sold on bill of sale only. So someone will get the car and it won't get scrapped.

t_towner

Cars were meant to be driven....not be trailer queens.

I personally agree with John....it's absolutely WORTHLESS!!! Not worth a penny. No one should bid on it! (evil laugh!)

I'm actually going to call on it tomorrow and see if BJ will give me the actual scoop on what title it will come with. If you read the description on the BJ site I assume it will be a junk title.

I know no way around the Junk title but I'd still be driving it to shows!

Here's what BJ says:

"THIS IS A HISTORICAL VEHICLE. NEITHER GM NOR BARRETT-JACKSON MAKE ANY WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, CONCERNING THE VEHICLE, INCLUDING NO WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. BUYER WILL TAKE POSSESSION OF THIS VEHICLE 'AS-IS.' THIS VEHICLE HAS BEEN USED PRIMARILY FOR STATIC DISPLAY AND BUYER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING THAT THE VEHICLE COMPLIES WITH ALL APPLICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS PRIOR TO ANY USE OF VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS. "

Klortho

They did the same thing with 0001 Syclone, it sits in a junkyard with every body panel dented in heavily and no parts can be sold off of it.

If the car can't be driven, I'm with John and t_towner, it's worthless.

1991Formula350

So why are all the Firehawk owners storing their cars instead of driving them? Either way, that yellow car is just bad ash looking, totally beautiful. Andrew

gpdscott

iTrader: (1)

If you look at the Car detail's on the BJ wedsite, link in first post, Lot #11, the datail's say... " THIS IS A HISTORICAL VEHICE.NEITHER GM NOR BARRETT-JACKSON MAKE ANY WARRANTY OR REPRESENTATION OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, CONCERNING THE VEHICLE, INCLUDING NO WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. BUYER WILL TAKE POSSESSION OF THIS VEHICLE 'AS-IS'. THIS VEHICLE HAS BEEN USED PRIMARILY FOR STSTIC DISPLAY AND BUYER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING THE THE VEHICLE COMPLIES WITH ALL APPICABLE LAWS AND REGULATIONS PRIOR TO ANY USE OF VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROAD'S".. What I take from that is, if you get the car inspected and it passed, the car can be used. To me, I would not care about driving it, just to have it and haul it to show's..IMO

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

First off, T-Towner is kidding, he is just trying to convince everyone else that it is worthless so he can buy it for less...hehehe

JT, I'm not trying to start that conversation again...

John, still confused, why is it worthless

And what is gonna stop someone from driving it to shows or just as much as they please, until they get pulled over.

IMO, this has not done anything to the value of the car for me. But if everyone thinks it's worthless now then by all means, it's not worth a single penny, therefore I can buy it for my .02.

Cheers!

t_towner

This car IS worthless to the flipper and the casual bidder! Seriously...what can you REALLY do w/ the car other than keep and personally enjoy it?

However. for most of us on this board it will always be significant regardless what the title says.

1991Formula350

With money and connections the car can be titled, again, with MONEY. If someone has the money to pour into it I am sure they can afford to work something out. Andrew

RPM WOT L 98

iTrader: (3)

Ok, that is actually very good for the real enthusiasts here. This should keep the flipper and the casual bidder away from the car!
But here's a question. The person that buys it from BJ, he should still be able to sell it at some point in the future right? Even with a junk title? Otherwise, this means that the person that buys this car is the last owner? That doesn't sound right.

If the buyer can resell it in the future, then the only way that the status of the title can affect the value is if it is being sold to someone who wants to drive it. But in the "collector" crowd, it should still hold full value. This is not Carmax, we're not selling a 2004 Honda CRV, to a soccer mom who needs safe tires and airbags. We're literally selling a piece of GM history, and soccer moms should not be interested in buying it.

My 002 on why the title status should not affect the price.