I've always condsidered the IROC-Z to be a "legendary" Camaro.

They weren't particularly powerful by today's standards, but how many clean Iroc-z's do you see driving around nowadays? Sure, it's not rare yet, but given how many of them that have been checked out of life by their owners in the last 25 years, I would assume in another 25 years, they will be extremely valuable and quite rare.

I do understand that the IROC-Z WAS basically a marketing campaign to help sell what was really a "Z28". In the 80's, the IROC-Z was the car to have. One guy I know said when he was kid in the 80's they brought brouchures to school and during recess would take them out with them and many other kids would want to see them, and would even steal them from his desk during class!

Whether you consider an IROC-Z legendary or not is entirely based on your opinion of what you consider makes a car "legendary", but I'm hoping I might be able to get a few of your biased, but honest opinions. I asked on Yahoo Answers and 0 of 7 of the replies agree with me about it being an automotive "legend".

 

Camaro yes, IROC no.
Legends make an impact that are felt for generations. The first gen did that as a sales and culture success. Every generation including the 5th gen has benefited from the Camaro name, even during the dark ages (oil crisis years) when the car had a max of 140 hp & was a rolling pile o' crap.
Other American legends (IMO) are:
Corvette, Mustang, Impala, tri-five Chevys, Ford F-series, Hemi name, and so on.
IROCs were the cars to have in their time, but quickly turned into the mu!!et cars by the mid '90s. Late '90s Civic Si was a sweet car to have back then (according to pop culture), but has returned to its economy car status today. Si was a trend, not a legend. Trends change, legends don't. A '32 Ford coupe will still be worth a ton of money in 30 years, while a '99 Si won't. Same for the IROC. Once trendy, but too many made, poor reputation now and for the foreseeable future. Kinda like SS in the 4th gens, just no reason to pay a price difference vs the Z28.

 

Legend is a strong term. The car is never going to be a 69 Camaro to the rest of the world, and in general, the 3rd gen probably won't ever live up to the level of interest that the 2nd and 1st gen cars have.

 

I always thought the Second gens suffered from lack of interest, most people I know think they are ugly no offense to people who like them here. My mom had two, she loved her cars, she is biast and everything, but she will agree any day that the Thirdgens were much nicer looking and likes to steal mine when I'm not home . Some second gens look good, but I haven't seen many I liked. Just my opinion though.

 

After about 1974 the only things 2nd gens had going for them are the Smokey and the Bandit movies. That's not saying much. Anyone that's driven a 1981 Z28 with the 160hp 350 can tell you they're nothing to write home about.

When you talk to anyone and you talk about an IROC-Z they know exactly what you're talking about. We don't have enough time for me to tell you about everytime someone flipped over the somewhat boring 87 Iroc in the garage. Of all the cars I've owned, the one that always brings up nostalgic memories from other people is the Iroc. People remember those cars and love them (generally speaking, some people just like to complain). So while I don't know if I'd go so far to say they're legendary, they've certainly got a start, and come closer to that definition then any other thirdgen.

 

Again, I agree with Drew. If you say that you have an 80s Camaro, most people don't think RS or Z28, they think IROC-Z. The fact that people think like that mean that a legend is in the making.

 

IROC is a legend among Camaros. As much as i love my car i know the majority of people in the world don't think it is. The majority rules...

 

Some people think every 3rd gen camaro is an iroc.Kid I used to work with was like that.Every time I would pick up another 3rd gen he would say oh you got another iroc even though they were both sport coupes

 

i consider it i legend like the 5.0 mustang. Though they will never be as well known as the 69 ss 396, or the Boss 429, they have there place. However, most of the iroc is legend compared to the 69's fact.

 

Yes! Not just the IROC, but the performance models of the 3rd gen line in general. Properly equipped Z28's, TA's, Formulas, and IROC's. The third gen cars held the line for GM for a decade, and sold better then the 4th or, dare I say it, the 5th gen cars, too. I can tell you that I had an 82 Z28 as well as an 85 Mustang GT, amongst others, during the decade. Regardless of what side you were on (maybe both, like me!), there was nothing like trolling the streets looking for a race on Saturday night. The yearly updates between GM and Ford had us mesmerized as the "top gun" changed frequently. From the LG4 to LU5, on to the underappreciated L69, to the TPI twins, and from the 157 hp 5.0 of 82 to 175 hp in 83, on to the awesome 210 hp 5.0 of 85, then into the 200-225 hp efi fords from 86 on, the eighties were a great time to be a car person. Throw in other players like the Monte SS, Hurst Olds/442, and the pure evil of the Buick Grand National/T Type cars, and every weekend was a party! Central to all of this, the IROC was, and still is, an iconic car with relevance in its own time period, and beyond. That does, indeed, make the IROC and some of its contemporaries legends! Thanks, Rudy.

 

I consider the IROC to be a legend, I don't see any of them around here anymore, like absolutely no IROC's and about 3 or 4 third gens.

So to me it is a legend, and I always get excited when I see one, or another third gen for that matter.

I stopped in at Best Buy yesterday because I saw what I thought was an 83-84 Sport Coupe, not that I needed to go to Best Buy, but when the guy came out he told me it was in fact an 84 with 50,000 miles on it, and it was immaculate and original, it was in great shape.

The only downside to this story is that when he pulled away I noticed that his license plate said "I PITCH."

So I was like.....WHAT THE HELL!!!! But it was nice seeing the car! lol

 

DISAGREE! the iroc may not be legendary, but not too many were made. they were only produced between 85 and 90. they are an upgraded version of the z28 hence the Z in IROC-Z. they are getting harder to find, are worth more than an equivilent z28 and will certainly be worth more in time.

 

^Yeah, i didn't explain that too well.
'85 to '90 = 6 year run. That is twice the run of the first gen Camaro. Then instead of a HUGE amount of boomers wanting them, you've got lower population in the segment, plus half the segment by the '80s is interested in foreign cars. What that means is (compared to 1st gens), lower demand and higher volume, which equals lower prices. Our cars will not explode in value like the true legends.
You've gotta remember that we are enthusiasts and what we think is going to be different from the public's view. The general public doesn't know how to change their oil, or how brakes work, much less why specific models are desirable. I've been asked if my Camaro is a 2003 model.... They don't know it's a 'bird and have no idea on the year! THAT is the public that will determine the value and status of our cars. Not us, the ones that give a crap.

Here's a better example: music.
'80s music is crap, right? It's either synth pop junk (Cyndi Lauper) or butt rock (Poison, White Snake). It was HUGE in the '80s, along with bad hair, bad clothes, and a bunch of other stupid stuff. Sure, Cyndi has her fans, but outside those crazies, no one can remember what she sang. That's a trend, not a legend. Legend would be The Beatles or Elvis, recognizable by everyone, like the Corvette.
The OP asking on Yahoo Answers and getting a 0 for 7 gives a more accurate picture than an enthusiast site.

 

As usual, Drew is right on the money. You do know exactly what car is being talked about when someone says "IROC-Z".

 

I'm gonna start telling people that my car is a 2003 Chevy Camaro when they ask now lmfao!

I agree with what you say though, but to us, the enthusiasts, who actually know what they car is and the significance behind it, with them becoming harder and harder to find, then the car will be a legend among us.

But to people who don't care anything more about what kinda of gas mileage their gas gets, then they will never care, and thats whats torn the Industry apart, people don't care to go buy a new Camaro because its a Camaro, they buy it because it looks cool and the V6 still gets 29mpg, which is actually what the 3.1L V6 was rated for on our cars Jensen73110.

So maybe if we at least tell people that our cars get 30+ mpg on long trips, then maybe they would be more interested.

 

Legend maybe not, but the IROCZ name is one of the most popular models made. Everyone who knows what a fbody is should know about the Irocz. My car is becoming a 'local legend' since its got two turbos out the hood and running in the 9's. Alot of ppl seem to know about this car haha and its only been to the track 2 different days all of last year.

May never be as popular as the 60's cars but nothing will be since those are the originals. Can almost never top the original in anything.

 

I'd have to say the IrocZ is not a legend.

The Merriam-Webster definition for legend is a story coming down from past popularly regarded as historical but not verifiable, or, a popular myth of recent origin.

And this applies to a Camaro how?

 

I don't know if i would consider the IROC Camaro a lengend..In my mind not from a performance standpoint like the big engine 60's Camaro's...The name is certainly recognizeable to most people.

 

Initially, when I read the question, I thought, "no". But then I thought, I have a '63 pull-back full sunroofed VW, a white '84 Monte Carlo SS, and an L79, '68 Corvette roadster.
My black '85 1C5 California IROC-Z has garnered way more attention through the years than the others, for whatever reason. Does that make it a legend, or a legend in the making? I don't know.

 

It's not like the original muscle cars were all that fast folks. The real torque monsters couldn't stick to the ground with vintage tires, and they were a very small fraction of the total cars. When you talk to people that were actually around in those times, and you hear the real stories, they'll tell you that maybe one person they knew had a 440 mopar or a 409 Chevy, or a 454 Chevelle. They'll tell you how terrible they were to drive, and how other guys with small blocks would often trounce them because the SBC got traction when the big block didn't. Those cars aren't all that legendary because of real world performance. They were legendary because of badging, word of mouth, and impression. The IROCZ is the same way. People think or expect that they're ALL fast. Even look at the people that are talking trash, they'll say "My XXXXXXXX (insert crapwagon of your choice) beat a 91 Irocz". Why would they even use that as an example if it wasn't a car people think is fast? I'm not going to waste my time saying I raced my Irocz against a 4cyl econobox.

"Bitchin' Camaro" may not be on par with the Beach Boys singing about a 409, but the IROCZ was a big deal at the time and will be remembered that way. Just like the 5.0 Mustang, Grand National, and the ZR1 Corvette. Damn near every other 80's performance car is forgotten. They're the legends of their time.

 

(emphasis added)

See the difference? Legends of their time (the '80s), not just legends then and now (first gen Camaro, Stingray, ZR1, tri-five Chevy, etc).
IROC-Z = Bandit TA of the '80s.

 

You would be shocked to know how ignorant the current and next generation is of the classic cars. You're forgetting to account for time, and what constitutes legendary status. When the offspring of the generation that was in their teens during the late 80's/early 90's reaches driving age, and their parents tell them stories about what was a hot car, what are they going to be talking about? For most of us it was the late 60's early 70's 'classic' cars our parents told us about. As those kids get out of the house, and the parents start having a bit more freedom to relive their youth, what do you think they'll be looking for? It took 25-30 years for the 'muscle' cars to really be much more then just old used cars. So look the F out, cause it's coming. Figure another 5-10 years and if it's going to happen, you'll see it. Personally I think it's already starting to happen.

It won't be as notable because there's no baby boom, and the newer cars are faster now, and there's the import movement that will also steal some of the thunder, but I think you'll see a shift in the next few years.

 

Drew, i understand what your saying but 80's cars just don't command the interest the 50's 60's early 70's cars do. A unmolested 3rdGen at a car show[mine included] is looked at from a interest standpoint because #1 you don't see many in nice condidtion & #2 people say "I had one of those when i was in school or i had one back then" but i don't hear people say "Boy, i sure wish i could buy one or i wish i had my old one back" like you hear them say about the earlier cars....As to the kids today. Well, i have two teenage boys and they look at my IROC & Formula and show no interest at all....They love their imports....

 

I would say they're legendary amongst 80's cars, and probably will turn into a legendary car as my generation, I'm 27, get older and talk about the Iroc their mom had (in my case) or they saw, etc. The same way a 426 Hemi was made legendary. That engine is talked up so much, but if you look, no Hemi car has high miles on it, because they smoked when cold, until the rings warmed up, etc. My dad has had a few Hemi cars, and he was never a fan, his 383 cars would always beat them. I have a lot of friends that always bagged on 80's Camaro's, talking about how lame they were, etc, until I showed up in my 86 Iroc. Every single one of them loves my car, people in parking lots come over and look at it, and ask me about it, and it's not all that nice really, it's got clear peel on the roof, and drivers door, rock chips in the black paint, etc. It doesn't even have the Iroc stickers on it anymore, just Z-28 badging. Everyone assumes it's an Iroc though, as those are the cars they remember from the 80's as being fast. Could it become a legend? Probably. Is it one today? Not really.

 

They only made them from 85-89. All the 1990 models were made in 1989 before the end of the year. Now that I think about it, some of the 1985 models had to have been made in 1984.

Legend or not I love this car!

 

Often times I mention I'm working on an '85 Camaro, People don't know which body style that is, but as soon as you say IROC-Z they know what you're talking about, because its the flagship of a third gen Camaro. Personally I think it will, a Camaro is a Camaro, and in my opinion a legend by default, If I say RX-7 or RX-8, most people don't even know what make that is...but say Camaro and they know the make, very few cars, let alone performance cars, have a lineage that goes as far back as a camaro, or dare I say it a mustang. And another thing to consider, is that the late 60s muscle cars, probably took more than 18 years to become really sought after, figure the average car lasts probably 10-20 years depending on usage, so it really doesn't start to get rare until then, and if its not rare, then its not highly sought after, I think in time third gens will be, because the 2nd generation went through the same thing, but now its a pretty rare car, in fact so rare, the last time I remember seeing one on the road was back in like 6th or 7th grade, and it had probably been restored.
So to answer the question, yes, I think Camaro's in general are And yes firebirds, but imo they get a lot less glory, despite being very similar, I think in the end people remember Camaro because its a chevy which has always been ahead of pontiac in the popularity contest, production numbers are also a factor in it I'm sure.

 

I think they made about 170,000 IROC's from 1985 to 1990 which is about 34,000 per year. How many are left now?

Personally, I think the IROC is more of an icon then a legend. Everyone knows what one is and fact is they are getting rarer and rarer every year. I think that improves value and might add to the "legend status"...Only time will tell.

 

Oh, and that being said, its as of 2010, 18 years since the end of production, and the 3rd gens are starting to get hard to find, especially nice ones, and I've been pricing the things since before I could drive, so for probably 5 years, and they have started to go up a little bit. Even a solid DD with no major work needed and just a v6 will run about $1k now, I paid $750 for mine, and it needs some work, I overpaid a little bit, but I wanted something I could work on, and engine option aside it had all the right options, non power locks, non power windows, no cruise control, no hatch motor(just a release switch) but with T-tops, dual exhaust tips, and the 3 piece spoiler, they just look weird to me without them.

 

Yeah, I'd buy that.

Ah-ha, yes. I think that is more accurate. Legend is a strong word with a pretty specific meaning. Icon more aptly describes a popular car.
Legend, not so much. Icon, definitely.

I still disagree with the investors saying "Any minute now!" for the tenth year in a row, because there are 191 3rd gen Camaros on Autotrader right now, and a decent condition v8 will cost ya all of $2000.

 

And a few years ago you could find them in the hundreds.

 

Ok, years ago, GM did a consumer survey where they took a group of people, young, old, women, etc and showed them 4 cars. All 4 cars were different generation Camaros. They were asked which of these 4 cars was a Camaro and the overwhelming response was directed at the IROC-Z. Scott Settlemire of GM has even stated that his favorite car was the IROC-Z he had many years ago.

For those of you not old enough to know about the 80's, the IROC-Z WAS the car to have. If you had one, you were envied by most of the other car guys except the 5.0 crowd. Because of the desire to have one back then, that generation will always remember the IROC-Z as the car to have. That's what legends are made of. My son is 12 and enjoys the 80s cars because of me. I've had an 86 Olds 442 and the IROC-Z during his lifetime. He wants a 3rd gen or a Buick Grand National. How would he know about these except from his dad. There are other kids out there today that also will want one beause they heard how great the car was in the 80s. As was said, Just watch.

SOmething else alot of you don't know. The "legendary" 69 Z28 is no faster than my 87 IROC-Z. I've raced them and it was too close to call. The 89 or 90 might beat out that legend. Plus, it was the Heartbeat of America!!!

 

I don't think we're gonna convince each other, but...

Rarity doesn't determine value either. Example:

Opel GT


Musclecar era, beautiful, 100,000+ made, 40 years old.

On eBay for $4,000.

 

well I have to say my opinion changed after reading this thread. Well I think the IROC is overrated and I do prefer the look of the RS. Do this tell someone you have a Z28 RS or SS camaro and everyone will likely have a different view of what these cars look like 1st 2nd 3rd 4th or even 5th gen body styles. But tell someone you have a Yenko camaro and they will picture a beautiful 1st gen, tell someone you have a smokey and the bandit trans am and everyone sees a 2nd gen from the movies, tell someone you have an IROC camaro and everybody pictures a 3rd gen camaro well I know the 3rd gen is not the most desirable camaro that has been made (in other people's eyes not mine) everybody will always see a 3rd gen camaro when you say IROC in their mind. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who had a really fast IROC.

As I stated earlier you can say camaro or almost any other model line and everybody gets a different picture in their mind. Also I think the IROC is overrated and prefer an RS. In my opinion THE IROC-Z IS A LEGEND.

 

My friend had an Opel GT in high school. That thing wouldn't do 80 MPH going downhill. It was fun to drive, though.

 

I think the main reason I'm arguing is I don't want prices to rise. If butthole collectors start getting into our generation, you'll see prices rise. Good for sellers, but bad for the everyday dude. Collectors are the reason I can't buy a nice 1st gen. But anyone can buy a 3rd gen in good shape. Even the prices for parts will rise, and finding one in pull-a-part or salvage will no longer happen. Collectors ruin the hobby and turn the cars into a garage ornament & investment. That sounds fun....

I think I'm gonna go put a Ratt sticker & naked lady mudflaps on my car to keep the stereotypes alive....

 

quote=jensen73110;4449673]Camaro yes, IROC no.
Legends make an impact that are felt for generations. The first gen did that as a sales and culture success. Every generation including the 5th gen has benefited from the Camaro name, even during the dark ages (oil crisis years) when the car had a max of 140 hp & was a rolling pile o' crap.
Other American legends (IMO) are:
Corvette, Mustang, Impala, tri-five Chevys, Ford F-series, Hemi name, and so on.
IROCs were the cars to have in their time, but quickly turned into the mu!!et cars by the mid '90s. Late '90s Civic Si was a sweet car to have back then (according to pop culture), but has returned to its economy car status today. Si was a trend, not a legend. Trends change, legends don't. A '32 Ford coupe will still be worth a ton of money in 30 years, while a '99 Si won't. Same for the IROC. Once trendy, but too many made, poor reputation now and for the foreseeable future. Kinda like SS in the 4th gens, just no reason to pay a price difference vs the Z28.[/quote]
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Good thread!
Looking back in 1987 I had bought my first NEW car. It was a 86 IROC
off the show room floor. I remember people back then saying it was the car to have.. IROC IROC IROC!!
All you hear. I had one. But driving one, im like what is all the hype really about?
It sucked as far as being fast! My gf's NEW Mustang LX at the time blew my doors off.. I am like wtf here??
I don't care for fords too much but I wanted something faster than the IROC!
lol...190 hp? come on!
Anyway....
I have had EIGHT first gen camaros. The guy that posted above is right on the money. Collectors have made the first gen market very very hard to find a first gen these days plus parts for first gens being high.
BUT as much as I love first gens I love the third gen too!
I have had two 86 IROCS. Both 305 TPI. I have had a total of
five third gen camaros... I love the third gen camaro period.
After all the performance cars that I have, I can say the third gen drives more comfortably than any other generation other than maybe a 4th gen.
I had a 4th gen TA. As far as second gens, no camaros but I had three second gen TA's so its the same thing. Fun cars but no "umph"
I can float back and forth with a first gen and a third gen all day long and be happy. I would consider a first gen fbody to be a legend. The IROC?
Like the poster above I would call it an ICON.
I love my 85 "z28" vert that I have now. It's an Antique no doubt, but I choose the term "Classic" as antique just sounds old.
The 85 has 83k miles on it now but the car drives like a new car.
It is no slouch even at less than 200 hp. Its a V8!
But like someone pointed out above, people younger than me (im 46) tend
to say...hey hows your IROC doing? Im like wtf? Its not a IROC but its a z28..but i understand since I have had both types of cars.
Speakin of z28, i think its going to be 60 today here in dallas!
Might be a good day to drop the top on my third gen "IROC"....LOL

 

I think you've got that backwards. Prices go up because of supply and demand. If everyone that has/had an Irocz took care of it, there would be a large enough supply that there wouldn't be much demand. However, if people keep thinking they're worthless, and chopping them for parts, the supply gets smaller, and the demand gets higher.

If you've ever tried to sell a thirdgen, or related parts, you can't help but notice that the average thirdgen owner is a cheapskate. I have no qualms whatsoever about pricing these cars and parts out of range for those people because they're the ones that can't afford to keep these cars nice anyway.

As long as I'm on the soap box, and not to get off topic... Has anyone else noticed that fairly solid (definitely restorable) cars get scrapped often for just a few parts? Most of the time the majority of parts go to waste. The seller makes a few dollars more then if they sold the car complete, but the world loses another Camaro. In a way this forum supports that. There are more then a couple butchers who buy rough project quality thirdgens and part them out here in the classifieds and on ebay. It seems like exactly the opposite of what this forum SHOULD be doing.

 

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jongaron.../0/0kT4nhjMXJ0

What a waste.

 

Retards, just a little time and effort, could have been a decent ride

 

Why....of all the POS commonplace worthless sedans they had sitting there they had to do that to a perfectly good IROC-Z....

 

That car probably ended up in the junkyard because the engine, or transmission went bad, and the cheap *** piece of crap that owned it could buy another one for less then it'd cost to fix it.

 

i agree the Iroc is a legend, nobody thinks IROC was the international race of champions, they think IROC thats a Camaro, and not just a camaro, one of the most well known camaros(that could be good or bad) but it is still the most recognized camaro of any time, even little kids(under 8) know my RS(since 89 has the "iroc" look) is a camaro, but you show them a 1st gen sitting next to another Muscle car of that era and they just look at you like your stupid because either they are both camaros or neither of them are, its rare to find another 80's early 90's car that looks similar to the IROC-z (ill give you the daytona because my little cousin screams iroc when he sees a daytona still and hes 6)

 

This is the best post. Dude, I am one of who you speak. I owned a 86 TA. I always wanted a TPI (mine was carb car) but it looks liked a bat out of hell. I would race GNs who would beat me, but they always told me how bad my car was.
Now I am 42. I have money saved up and against the wifes wishes I bought a 88 GTA 5-speed with 20K on the clock. I know there are many men like me who want one but are waiting till the kids graduate from College. I just did it early cause I could. I bought her for 10K and know that she will rise in value. She even has the original tires... and those of you who know the classic market, the 5-speeds the glory. its a 305 but with only 10HP less than the 350 but is MUCH more fun to drive. any MUCH rarer... only 806 made that year. and its black with t-tops.

I also owned an 83 camaro before the original TA and it had a V6. loved the cars looks, but always liked the interior of the TA much much more. Try one at night. its a freakin light show with its "floating" tail lights (neutral density they were called by pontiac), low fog lights and the whole cabin lit up in an fire orange glow (see pic below)

It is going to be a great time in 10 years...
I guess I am a "rich guy " for paying 10K for a car that sold new for 22K

 

and damn this is a good price!!

http://www.cars-on-line.com/43437.html

 

Damn, that is a good deal!

 

The IROC-Z is a legendary car in automobile history because they were something that 98% of cars never get to be, the iconic and most popular car of their day. On top of that, Third Gens in general were amazing cars for that time, especially when the 350 was brought back and the LB9/M5/G92 cars. They were thoroughly modern and advanced, helped bring back performance, and introduced handling that many performance cars today cannot quite match. They outsold their competitor and were a successful venture overall.

Also, anyone that was around in the 80's can easily remember what the most desired cars were, and that was the Third Gens. Everyone wanted one, especially the IROC-Z. I remember the neighborhoods being loaded with them and they were owned by all kinds of people. Alot of people with good jobs that dressed in suit and ties even. The upper level cars were not cheap for the time. As kids, when we saw these cars, we were in awe. Everyone said, "I'm gonna own one of those someday!" I was obviously very serious when I said it LOL. Sometimes though, we didn't know if we'd get the chance, as people wanted them so much that they got stolen constantly and were often driven very hard. That's what happens when you give a fantastic looking car alot of TQ and exotic car handling at musclecar prices. When I drive my car or take it to a show it gets alot of attention. People really enjoy seeing it and I like hearing their comments and listening to their admiration. There has been no bigger hit or frenzy with the public for a performance car until the 5th Gen came out, yet another Camaro. Everything you're seeing with those cars, the attention, the desire, magazine coverage, awards, sales, envy, etc., Third Gens and the IROC-Z were double it. The values have gone up and will continue to do so, especially if the economy turns around. A few cars stand out in Camaro/automotive history for different reasons, and without question, this is one of them.

 

The lady who owned my third gen before I bought it spent over $10k trying to turn an 86 z28 and a 87 rs into an iroc-z clone.

 

Sad. buy them in good shape. never have to restore or convert. Saves money in long run. few can restore a car well and turn for profit. depends on the car of the resto.

 

Here's a better deal... '86 Iroc-z Black/Red with 40K miles... $6,000!!!

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false