I'm not sure if this can be answered or not, but here it goes: A guy wants to sell me what he says is a 1982 IROC Z Camaro. I know enough about Camaros to know that the IROC Z model was not produced during '82, so I did a little research. In doing so, I came across this website, and looked at the pictures of Camaros from '85 to '88. I found that the best match was an '88 IROC Z, but I still noticed a few differences, such as the IROC Z logo on the car this guy wants to sell seems to be higher on the door than the one I found on this website. I only have a few pictures to go by right now, and I would like to know if I can tell for sure if he wrote the date wrong or if it's a clone of an IROC Z. I included the picture from this website and the two that were relevant from the car he's trying to sell. If it's impossible to tell from these pictures, is there a way I can tell for sure in person? Thanks for the help!
*Edit: I got the VIN number and looked it up. I explain this in the last paragraph below. It definitely isn't mistake on the year, just an IROC logo on an '82 unfortunately. He has agreed on $1500 for a price, and claims it runs fine. There's no title, and it's missing a driver's side T-Top. My real question is, is this worth buying? How much would it cost to replace the T-Top? I don't know a whole lot about 3rd generation cars like this, but I'm trying to learn. Any help is great, thanks!*

I found out today that the car in question has "Limited Edition" on the door handles. I did a little more research and again wound up here, but a lot of what I found suggested that the Limited Edition was a dealer-added piece with no real meaning, an aftermarket piece from Walmart, Autozone, etc., or, in a few cases, people claimed that it was an actual Limited Edition model for whatever reason. I'm inclined to side with the car dealer or aftermarket side, because, from what little I know and what little else I've researched, there doesn't seem to be anything special about the car. This makes me think it's a clone of an IROC Z...the guy did say it was registered with the county as an '82, and the man he bought it from claimed it was an '82 IROC Z. Any more knowledgeable opinions are greatly appreciated, I'm simply making an educated guess here.

Also got the VIN number today. decodethis.com said that itwas a 1982 305 v8 Camaro with a base trim level. A second website, (mylocalford.com), said the same thing, except that the model was a Camaro base/z28. Do these mean the same thing? Is it a basic z28, or was there a basic Camaro model that could get z28, RS, and Berlinetta packages? Other than that, everything agrees with each other. I also found both of these sites from this forum under various VIN number decoders, free VIN report posts, etc. Thanks for the help!

 

yeah that's about what you get for $1,500...
smart of you for doing your homework but the current owner is dreadfully misinformed about what he owns and I wouldn't give any credit to anything that he says.

what are your plans if you buy this car?
do you plan to daily drive it until it bites the dust?
it's certainly not worth putting any money into...

if you want my honest opinion... roughed up third gens like that make me cringe.
I understand the fact that not everyone has $7,000-$10,000 lying around to buy a clean one but I just don't think that cars like that are worth the money and time, sorry.

 

You are correct; the Iroc wasn't available until 1985. Your example looks like an 82 Z28 (based on the lower, gray ground effects), but even at $1,500, you are going to have to - at a minimum - spend double that amount right from the start. Hopefully the new quarter and hood were installed correctly and there isn't hidden damage from the assumed past collision. A set of correct rims will be at least a hundred bucks. No left t- top essentially means half of your roof is missing and who knows how much water the carpet already drank. New paint is needed and I still haven't seen under the hood or inside the car.

Also, based on his "claims", bring the car to a mechanic with at least a $20.00 bill and get two things: an honest professional opinion and also a look at the underneath. Since these cars are low to the ground to begin with, you never know what may lurk below. Kudos for educating yourself first!

Here's a GM photo of what the Z28 looked like in 1982:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...mb=MgXBqP1yhwt

 

Yeah, I'm really looking for a daily driver that I can drive until I get the money/chance to restore it. I'd like to keep one of these as long as I can, get it back to near original condition if possible but still actually use the car, as apposed to making a show car out of it or parking it and not driving it. Unfortunately, cash is a little tight, and it's probably stretching it to find a working 3rd gen for $2000 or less. I'm a little wary of this one simply because he never looked into it and assumed it was a '82 IROC. I would at the very least like to replace the driver side t-top and get that IROC logo and the limited edition stickers off and get a new paint job and resale it. By that time, I might have the cash to buy a better condition car. I havr no experience in restoration at all though, so I'm not sure how much this would cost, or if it's even plausible to do while still driving the car daily. Honestly, I just want a 3rd gen Camaro in decent condition to drive. I guess this isn't the one though lol. I am curious as to the difference in the Base trim level vs the Base/z28 trim level though. That threw me off a little.

 

Comments like this really get under my skin. This is a 3rd gen ENTHUSIAST site, not a "late 3rd gen Z28 and GTA" enthusiast site.


Bottom line is, if you like the car and are willing to spend the asking price on it, go for it! Don't let anyone else tell you if YOU like the car or not. You have done your research and are aware that the car is not what the seller thinks it is, so you know not to expect a perfect condition real IROC-Z. Just look the car over real well and decide if you are willing to fix whatever you find wrong or don't like.

 

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I'd pass just on it not having a title. If the hood and Dash are in good shape, give him $500 as a parts car. That's about all it's worth

 

I can understand your opinion because of the title issue, although I do not understand your reasoning based on price.

In the modern general used car market, ANY car that runs and drives OK and has heat is worth at least 1K. It is not out of line to ask $1500 for a running/driving V8 Camaro.

 

Where in my post did I state that he should go shop for a "late 3rd gen Z28 and GTA".
I only stated the fact that the specific car he's looking at is a pile.

 

There's a lot of cars here in the south you can't give away for $500 that don't have AC, and those HAVE titles.

You ever tried to get a title for a car that doesn't have one?

 

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The rims and most of the cosmetic stuff like a new paint job could wait for me; I plan on getting a running car and slowly restoring it over time instead of all at once. The IROC logo would come off right away of course. He says, (again, going on his word here, which, I believe he was lied to and never looked anything up to begin with, so..I don't think he's giving me false info on purpose.), that a tarp has been over the car to cover the missing t-top, and that it's been in his garage, therefore no rain damage. I won't know for sure until I see it in person, which won't be until next weekend. My original point in posting this was to find out how to tell if it was truly an '82 z28 or a mislabeled IROC. I kind of answered my own question by looking up the VIN number though. I'd also like to know, based on the condition it's in, if this car or another similar to it would be worth buying as a daily driver.
Now, let me get this all straight. The general consensus seems to be that it isn't; at least, replacing the t-top combined with the missing title, lack of credibility of the seller, and general questionable car condition suggest that it's more trouble than it's worth, or more money than I have and that's worth putting into the car. Am I correct?
This leads to my, (hopefully), last question lol. Is it plausible to find a running 3rd generation Camaro for at most $2000 that could be used as a daily driver? I would love to restore a car, but I need s car to drive as well. Unfortunately, I can't seem to do both. A running restoration project would be fantastic, maybe one that doesn't need a whole lot of work, seeing as this is my first time trying to do something like this, but is that even a possibility? The majority of the cars I've found on craigslist for around $2000 are either too far gone to restore, (i.e. parts cars), or too much for me to handle restoration wise, as in, in need if motors/transmissions/generally too poor condition to drive without a lot of monry and time first. Again, thanks for all yall's opinions! This really helps.

 

You didn't exactly state it, but your price range of a worthy car did state it for you.

I agree with it being a parts car due to the title situation. From what I got out of the response, the price was too much even if it did have a title. Obviously, prices vary in different areas of the country. Around here, that's a good price as long as there's no rust holes big enough to toss a cat through.

Title aside, there's nothing that's been said that means the car cannot be a DD (unless I overlooked it). We do not know how it runs and drives, who knows, it could drive great. Put a t-top on it. Wrong decals and ugly wheels don't mean the car isn't DD worthy.

Maybe I'm biased though. My DD is a rusty old pickup that's 5 or 6 colors, contains parts from several trucks, burns oil, and the AC is inop... but it runs and drives perfect and does a wonderful job transporting me 60 miles a day.

 

I may be asking too much, looking for a decent condition 3rd gen Camaro for that low if a price. I'm beginning to suspect that, but like I said: I'm still pretty new to the restoration deal, and I'm not really sure what a good price is for different conditions. Am I asking too little money for too good of a car? Or do I just need to look more. That's really what I need to know.

 

You sound exactly like a friend of mine, what with your truck and all. I almost would've mistaken the description as being his truck, except he finally had his a/c fixed a few months ago :P
Mileage wise, the Camaro has 153,000 miles on it.
According to him, at least. That's another thing I'm not sure about: how many miles should be expect from a decent condition 3rd gen?

 

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I did look into the title problem, and according to Georgia state law at least, and car grom 1985?-195* is title-optional, meaning one isn't needed, but you can get one. Anything older that 195* doesn't need a title. Anything newer than 1985 has to havr a title.
I can't remember exactly when in the '50s it changes or when in the '80s it change, but I do know that a 1982 is within that optional range. Some one please correct mr if I misinterpreted that, but to my knowledge and research that's correct. In the absence of a title, a bill of sale is sufficient for cars older than that 1985-ish mark. And I eas afraid of that, essentially buying a project car. I'd like to get one that doesn't need a lot of money to get running, since this would be my firzt restoration project. I kind of want to start small. I'm not afraid of a little work, I simply don't have the money to do anything really serious or major to a car at the time, unfortunately. If I could make a living restoring cars though, I would be all for it

 

In Ohio, it's nearly impossible to get a title for a car that doesn't have one.

Have the car looked at and see how it drives. Then decide if you are willing to deal with getting a title. You may drive it and decide right then it's not the car for you.

 

Honestly it's pretty hard to tell you if it's worth buying without knowing how it runs, take it for a spin & have a mechanic look it over for you, if it's in good shape, then it's probably worth it, just make sure you'll have enough $ on hand for whatever repairs show up after you've driven it a few days. One thing my dad taught me that seems to be pretty true in my experience is whenever you buy a used vehicle expect to put about $500 in it right away.

And I have to agree with 86blackiroc, my DD is rusty old truck (doesn't even have a/c) that I picked up for $1300. Does it look like much? No, the paint is faded, the cab corners & rear wheelwells are rusted out, there's a few dents in it. Does it run good? Hell yeah, the motor/trans were rebuilt 80k ago and they're still in great shape which is what really matters for a DD. That and brakes, which is where most of the $500 I referenced went to.

 

also, has the front end been replaced? When I se a car with a front clip that doesn't match the rest of the car, I start thinking that it's been in a pretty serious wreck

If you are talking restoration and just not making it look pretty, those seat are not third gen seats, they are 4th gen seats. For a restoration, you'll have to find real seats from an 82, and that can be very difficult. As they are now, they look decent, and for just a driver they are close enough.

 

^^
That brings to mind another thing you'd want in a daily driver, comfort. In my experience, swapping 4th gen seats in is one of the easiest ways to get a more comfortable seat, so as long as you're not a stickler for originality, you'll probably be glad that's already been done. Another thing to consider is that being an 82 chances are it won't have an overdrive tranny (unless someone's swapped one in), which would affect the gas mileage some.

 

As the old saying goes, this one would be "penny wise but pound foolish." Restoration costs mount quickly. A paint job alone is 3-4k for heaven's sake. Add interior, mechanicals, and other things in and before you know it, you'll have 15 grand into it.

Squeaky clean, low mile '82s can be had for about 7 grand nowadays. Why buy a clunker when you can get a mint one for a fraction what it would cost to restore this?

 

Thanks for all the opinions and information, really helps. I may be going to see the car in person tomorrow, so all the questions should be answered then. One other thing though: I've done a little looking around, but I can't seem to find a complete t-top for sale for a driver or passenger side on an '82 Camaro. Everything I find is either seals or repair kits, no actual glass. Anyone know where I can find a complete t-top? How much do y'all think one would run?

 

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Thanks man! I found a set of two locking t-tops without a key for $75 and with a key for $125. That's exactly what I was looking for

 

Why? Because not everyone wants to (or can) spend 7K on a minty car that's going to get dings and scratches as a daily driver. Believe it or not, some folks are quite happy with a car that looks just decent and only took about 3K out of their wallet to get it there.

One more thing. Spending 10-15K completely restoring a car only worth 7-10K is not the worst investment a guy can make. It's not nearly as bad as financing a new car (but you almost never hear people saying that's a bad idea).

 

Often, an old car is where a guy learns the value of money and how to make smart investments. Some have to learn this the hard way on their own, and that's fine. I'm just relaying my experience. I'd save up for the better car, especially since these cars are really in the tank value wise right now.

 

What's your point? Cars and hobbies are not smart investments and buying an old car to fix up is not a mistake to be learned from. It's just something that a person chooses to do for their own satisfaction.

 

There are smart investments in the car hobby. There are also mistakes. Of course, the terms are totally relative in that context, but there are "efficient" ways to enjoy old cars.

The best one I've learned is to start out with a car that doesn't need a ton of work just to get to a good starting point. You're going to spend enough as it is without having to correct or fix a lot of things just to get a decent base to start your hobby, which you will likely have to do with a $1,500 car unless you get real lucky.

Can't afford $7k? Ok, how about saving up a little longer and go $4k for a nice solid RS instead of a Z28 or IROC? It just makes sense, even taken as a given that cars aren't smart investments (which all of us in the hobby know and accept).

 

I sat no title, no deal unless it's a very cheap parts car.

 

A couple things I see. The driver's side has different rims that the passenger side. That's plainly obvious. But, the driver's side also has 1982-84 ground effects, while the passenger side has 1985-1990 ground effects. The IROC-Z logo on the driver door is also placed very incorrectly compared to the passenger side. The differences between the driver side and passenger side would have me concerned that possible major damage has occured and was repaired. If this is the case, who repaired it and how good of a job did they do? Since they couldn't get the decals to be consistent, or even get the correct ground effects to match, I'd stay away from this car as a daily driver.

 

Note the difference between pic 1 and 3. #1 was taken 6 years ago. Car looks considerably different in the other 2 photos. Looks like that 6 years was spent traveling to the gates of Hell like in the movie "Event Horizon"!

 

For $500 This would make a good parts car for the daily driver you want. I did this with a car i'm restoring right now. I've saved way more than the $300 bucks I paid for it. The only issue is what to do with the frame. It's hard to find these cars in great condition unless the owner really took care of them.

 

Pic # 1 is of thr closest match I could find to the car on this website. The last two are the actual car in question.

 

ohhhhh. I was going to comment that they aren't even the same car. The 2nd and 3rd pic don't have door moldings, different ground effects and then I noticed the difference in the rear spoilers. There were two different sizes and pic 1 has the larger one compared to pic 2 and 3. Now I know why.

 

I know I didn't really get your point, but I think you missed mine too. Some people get their satisfaction from taking a POS and turning it into something nice with their own two hands. Sure, over time it will take much more cash than buying a nice car to begin with, but it's not always about the car's value. It's about the hobby and the effort you put into it.

That's why it's wrong for guys to look at a couple pictures of a ragged out third gen and just say "that's not worth fixing" or "that should be a parts car". There's always people out there that are willing to fix it. Also, I'm not talking about this car or this thread in particular, it's just a discussion that pops up fairly often.

 

I do see your point. It is an ongoing debate to be sure. I just can't forget the 1969 Camaro SS I had back before they were worth anything. It was temptingly cheap and looked good superfically but it turned out it had a bent subframe and wouldn't align within factory specs, butchered wiring, bondo everywhere, an engine that burned oil and had a cracked cylinder head, and all kinds of other "foundational" problems that I personally took no pleasure whatsoever in dealing with.

Next thing I knew, I had 8 grand into the thing (a ton of money back then) and sold it for 3k (with freakin' pleasure I may add!). I found myself wishing many, many times during the process that I'd bought a "grandma special" 307 Camaro and just worked off that.

I suppose if you're mechanically handy and know what you're getting into, sure, why not? To each his own, but a guy like the OP, who appears to have limited funds and admits he's new to Third Gens, might be better off with a more solid car to start out with. That's all I'm saying!

 

Yes, and I agree with you there. But the same old saying still goes, you can't always judge a book by it's cover. When there are so many unknowns, it's not fair to write a car off because of a couple pictures and a clueless owner's description. Sure it could be a real pile that needs a lot of attention, but it might not.

Our '88 Iroc is a good example. It was a trade deal, but the guy was asking 2K for it, and that was after his 16-year-old brother in law had got a hold of it. It had fairly large rusty patches, had been spray painted (horribly, no prep or masking) with crappy gray primer, and the headlights and condenser had been removed to turn the poor car into a "race car". It didn't even run when we got it. Most members here would have called it scrap based on it's looks. But you know what, after a starter, plenum gaskets, tires and exhaust it was a great running car that drove down the road very nice. It was extremely reliable and it turned out to have a reman motor and a rebuilt tranny. With no money being spent on repairs we were able to focus on other comfort and cosmetic items. Now it's a great looking car with a straight and rust-free body, presentable interior, cold AC, and fully functioning power options. And yep, total investment is about what it would have cost to just buy a nice car to begin with, but this one is much more fresh and it's a great daily driver. It's also one more 3rd gen still on the road.

 

It varies state to state, but getting a title for a car that does not have one is usually a LARGE pain. Been there, done it. Cost me ~$400 or so and took the better part of a year to get sorted out in which the car had to just sit while it waited on paperwork. Would I do it again.... maaaayyybe for the right car. But I'd just as soon keep searching. $1500 would be a alright price for a 82' tarted up with IROC stickers, the wrong year hood, and ugly wheels provided it was rust free and otherwise unmolested. But without a title I see it as a parts car, sadly.

 

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