scottmoyer

I was looking at another forum and there was a link to a Super Chevy article that performed dyno tests on a couple of the beloved Muscle Car Era super cars. People always say that our cars aren't "muscle car worthy" and overly praise the earlier cars ability to outperform anything from the 80s.

Most people praise the '69 Yenko Camaro with it's 427 as having 425 horsepower, or the '70 Chevelle SS 454 with its 450 horse engine. The article dyno tested these two monsters, in their stock, original form and found the Yenko made 288hp and 361 torque and the Chevelle made 283hp and 320 torque.

I was recently reading another article that said the 5th gen Camaro was the first Camaro since 1970 to report similar hp values. I found that article humorous since the editor knows that the hp ratings changed in the early 70s and he decided to continue with his erroneous comments.

Nice to know that 80s cars weren't that far out of line with the "Muscle Cars" of the 60s/70s.

bjpotter

And don't forget our cars are lighter. Power to weight ratios close the gap in performance even more.

FormerL69

iTrader: (2)

Time has a funny way of distorting things, doesn't it? Third gens, even the early ones, represented a return to performance in the 80s that had been largely missing for the better part of a decade.

And they could actually go around a corner in without scaring anyone.

The 60's muscle cars were great straight line performers for their day. There's no arguing that. Thankfully the third gen engineers upped the ante across the board. The team looked beyond the "how big of a motor can we stick in it to make it go fast" mentality that seemed to be all anyone cared about in the 60s to make a car that performed really well in all areas. It was a huge leap.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Links?

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

A few 80s cars were up to par with the 60s- early 70s muscle era. Mid to late 70s even the corvettes were no match for a higher optioned 3rd gen like an L98 or 5.0 H.O 5spd or TPI car. Still I wouldn't take a 3rd gen and go trying any 70 442s or 454 SS Chevelles any time soon. Not in stock form. I did race my dads stock 69 Chevelle SS 396 with a mid-high 13sec GTA I used to have and surprisingly pulled him. But had he had slicks and lower gears it wouldn't have went down.

bjpotter

Speed in a straight line was the hallmark of the Golden era of factory built hot rods. I loved them then and still do. However the 3rd Gen's for me were about handling and power through and out of curves.

In the mid to late 70's my father sold equipment for an Italian company out of Milan. The owner had a Ferrari and knew how to drive it. He took me for a ride in the mountains. Two lane roads at high speed, around curves with large drop offs. At one point he hit the brakes hard and stopped. "Brad, Brad is it not beautiful" he asked. My heart and body were still recovering when I nodded yes. Again he hit the gas and off we went to finish the most scary and exciting ride I had ever had to that point (I was 14-15 at the time).

The next time I got that feeling was behind the wheel of my first 3rd Gen. That memory is the reason I bought my second 3rd Gen. I just couldn't enjoy driving without that feeling of control and speed.

scottmoyer

I forgot to add the article.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/add...car-dyno-wars/

I think it was Motor Trend magazine from two months ago or so that did the comparison for the 5th gen.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

As far as all around fun to drive cars man a 3rd gen 5spd HO car is one of the most enjoyable ive ever drove. The sound, the torque, the way it handled the curves effortlessly man I loved it. The scariest or should I say worse driving experience ive had is in a 62 corvette..No power steering is no fun to me.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Too bad they didn't have your car to put on the chassis dyno Scott. I'd love to see what it would pull.

scottmoyer

Probably similar to the 57 Chevy at 158hp!!!!

bjpotter

Have you ever dyno'd the Firehawk? I would love to know what a TTA dyno's at as well.

CPC Norwood

For example the 1969 Z/28 in stock form ran anywhere from low 15s to mid 14s. in the 1/4 mile. That is clearly 305/350 IROC territory and the L-69 HO too.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

It seems that the difference is explained pretty well in the first few paragraphs, Chevrolet's ratings came from engine dynos, not chassis dynos. So, yes, you had a 450 hp motor in your LS6 Chevelle, but you also had a lot of parasitic losses connected to it lol. There's also gotta be some factor into how old the cars they tested in the article were.

Cool information nonetheless, I'd still take a 69 RS Z/28 over my 83 Z28 any day, BUT my 83's what I got, and I'm quite pleased (plus, who has 60k sitting around? lol)

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Those cars were all overrated in power and perception and ours underrated in both. They were rated in gross power. The thing is they were easy to make faster and cheap to mod. They were considered fast in those days because everything else was so insanely slow lol. By the time the Third Gen was around for a while it was matching and surpassing many of the cars considered "fast" in the 60s. Low-mid 14s and 6 second 0-60s were actually rare back in the musclecar era. Only a handful of cars could do that or better and they were the exception. Our cars are better in every single other aspect of performance and quality. Those cars started rusting in just a few years of being outside and are light years behind in tech. I'm a fan of many of those cars but what's true is true. Perception is very off from reality regarding this, but I believe that it's changing slowly and will continue to do so.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

It's hard to say (which further points out your perception statement) but yup, agree.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

The 3rd gens benefited largely from the evolution of tire technology & the difference between old & new is like comparing the Wright Brother's airplane to an F-22 Raptor.

Take a set of 16" aluminum IROC wheels clad in modern rubber and bolt them on to an older car (like many did in the 80's) and you have a completely different animal. In keeping with the same theme, take a set of F-60 14 Firestone Wide Oval bias ply tires and stick them on your 3rd gen & see how confident of your car you are! I have a feeling it won't be the performer it used to be.

I like them both, and for completely different reasons. Running a low 13 second quarter (hoping for high 12's) in my 71 GT-37 in Pure Stock trim is quite a thrill. Shooting the apex on a twisty road early on a crisp Sunday morning in my Z-28 is as well.

bjpotter

GCrites80s

Another thing about the old muscle is that they were very dangerous and scary to drive fast on the street. Especially racing against some old 1920s gow job that was straight out of the '50s. All that fear, death and destruction pushed the lore to the max.