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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
It's not exactly news that GM likes to keep thirdgen camaros around for experiments. There have been several photos and articles over the years showing in some cases the same exact car with multiple drivetrains and paint jobs. It's probably not a coincidence this car is yellow just like the Ramjet car.
Really though, what other vaguely modern GM better represents the typical GM project car? Anything newer had half the engine hidden under the cowl/windshield, and was a gen II or III or whatever ridiculous technological marvel they're onto now. It's a logical test car for the same reason it's a popular project.
I was on the hot rod power tour back in 2004 and it was sponsored by GM performance parts. They had a yellow thirdgen with them that at the time was sporting a ramjet 350 motor. Could be the same car I saw in 2004 with the latest crate motor setup they are planning on offering.
I was on the hot rod power tour back in 2004 and it was sponsored by GM performance parts. They had a yellow thirdgen with them that at the time was sporting a ramjet 350 motor. Could be the same car I saw in 2004 with the latest crate motor setup they are planning on offering.
I saw it to and went for a cruise in it. In the engine compartment I noted a few spots where the paint prep wasn't the greatest and the yellow had popped off. It was glossy white under the yellow. I'd bet money it was one of the heritage prototypes.
How can they have cars like this used as test mules on their proving grounds, but produce the current car with that crazy high beltline? You'd think the goal would be to build something that looks even better than a 3rd gen.
Put this body on the 6th gen chassis, maybe make a few very small tweaks just to say it's not an exact copy. Modernize the interior with better materials. Build it.
How can they have cars like this used as test mules on their proving grounds, but produce the current car with that crazy high beltline? You'd think the goal would be to build something that looks even better than a 3rd gen.
Put this body on the 6th gen chassis, maybe make a few very small tweaks just to say it's not an exact copy. Modernize the interior with better materials. Build it.
High belt line = improved crash standards. My guess anyway.
High belt line = improved crash standards. My guess anyway.
I've definitely heard that theory. Over at gminsidenews.com, there is a member who used to work in design at GM, for both Cadillac and Pontiac. He was gone before the 5th and 6th gen cars were rolled out. He said that the beltline was a stylistic choice more than a safety requirement.
I drive an ATS coupe Same chassis. The beltline there isn't overly high.
This car has been in the GM stable as a test mule for a long time. I remember reading an article about it, but I can't seem to find it now. I believe it is a 1987 and it was never sold to the public. This may be the car that was originally used to develop the ZZ3 350/HO conversion kit.
There is another thirdgen test mule in the GM stable. It's a 1992 RS with no rear spoiler that was the original prototype for the 25th Anniversary Heritage Package, which was supposed to be an LT1/6-speed. At the time, it was white with black stripes and black Trans am crosslace wheels. It was later painted yellow and was used for the Ramjet turnkey crate engine testing.
Using the thirdgen platform for crate engine testing makes a ton of sense. In this case, my guess is that they are testing one of the supercharged LT-based plug and play crate engines. The add on hood bulge was probably done for clearance reasons.
You have to wonder when someone takes a look at the yellow Camaro, and then looks at the current one or the 5th gen, if they think, "What the hell are we doing?"
According to someone who worked at GM Design, the high belt line is there because Ed Welburn thought it was cool. Nothing to do with crash standards.
I think its cool. Love the old school tires too. Low profile tires are common and boring. Not to say that I don't appreciate a great, modern performance car, but third gen's are cool just the way they were designed.
I think its cool. Love the old school tires too. Low profile tires are common and boring. Not to say that I don't appreciate a great, modern performance car, but third gen's are cool just the way they were designed.
3rd gen tires were probably considered low profile in their day. 245/50-16. I guess they're better performing, but a little more profile, in my opinion, is a nicer look.
I'm having second thoughts about low profile tires. Drove my ATS in a construction zone the other day where the workers left a large seam in the road between the new road and the old. It said "bump" on a sign next to the road. Felt like I hit a wall. Sidewall torn, being replaced right now. I've read many other accounts like this, though the problem seems to be worse with run-flats rather than just standard low-profile tires.
According to someone who worked at GM Design, the high belt line is there because Ed Welburn thought it was cool. Nothing to do with crash standards.
Ah, then ole Ed really needs to rethink "style".
To me, all the new cars have gotten huge yet the insides feel really cramped. Also, the tail end of the new cars have gotten very tall to the point it's hard to see rearward out of the car.
Seems like two different cars here. The SuperChevy article is about a 92 Heritage car, this deal looks to be a late 80s model. But as that article says they're on the look out for suitable test mules in those years.
Seems like two different cars here. The SuperChevy article is about a 92 Heritage car, this deal looks to be a late 80s model. But as that article says they're on the look out for suitable test mules in those years.
That’s correct. There are 2 different thirdgen test mules that I was referring to. Both are yellow, so it can be a bit confusing. The 92’ has surfaced a couple of times, and this one, which I believe is an 87’ has come up before as well.
Regarding the mules thing and why 3rd gens, for what it's worth.
In the late '80s back before I even bought my first Firebird in 1990, I had a neighbor in Virginia that built and raced his own cars. He bought used 3rd gen f-bodies then modified them for the track. He told me that it was the best platform for racing on the market. He believed that it was the toughest and also the best handling chassis available, and could handle very high-powered engines.
Just his opinion, but he had 3-5 cars at any one time, so he must have had some idea of what he was talking about. He also used whatever car he was working on for regular driving, so I'd often have one of his cars sitting right next to mine in our parking lot, with his number, a big painted "53," on the sides and roof.
Based on that, maybe I can see why 3rd gens would be around as crate engine test mules.
Patrick, I can solve this mystery for you. And so I shall.
This is an engine test mule for GMPP. And how can I tell that? Because third gen Camaros are available with the garbage engines by the truckload, cheap, and therefore the #1 target market for a $12k drop-in 5.7L V8 to replace the Iron Puke? DING! And they built a million of them. No, literally one million of them - well, 1.5 million to be exact. But I digress.
The other probability is that it’s a suspension test mule. I’m skeptical only because GMPP doesn’t do those for anything but current generations. But it is most definitely a GMPP car. How can I tell you this for certain? Rear passenger bumper. That’s a GM Performance Parts badge. I’d bet the ones on the rockers are too.
Every one reads really hard in to this, it makes sense they're testing a crate engine or connect and cruise package GMPP. Those probably still have to be road tested for some engineering data generation right? Used in soft ware calibration or some sort of validity testing of the components/software in a real word situations. Going to have to put it in some thing? If it was a first or second gen Camaro people would be like oh cool, GM is testing crate engines with a 1st Gen, Heritage, no one would bat an eye.
Maybe its a LT2 crate engine test. A 490hp LT2 crate engine sounds like a nice drop-in. Specially once you add headers and a nice intake kit. Probably get 530-540hp crank out of it without ever pulling the valve covers.
How can they have cars like this used as test mules on their proving grounds, but produce the current car with that crazy high beltline? You'd think the goal would be to build something that looks even better than a 3rd gen.
Put this body on the 6th gen chassis, maybe make a few very small tweaks just to say it's not an exact copy. Modernize the interior with better materials. Build it.
Some mules just need to test drivability of a powertrain, not suspension, interior, etc.
Originally Posted by dmccain
Id bet its an LS or LT watever style crate engine setup they are testing. Probably a drop in plug and play kit. Probably sell like hotcakes too.
The 2020 LT2 should be an easy certification, with the 20xx LT1 kit already having an E.O. I need to read up more on that cert.; I'm getting local peer pressure to change my plans from Gen IV to V.
Originally Posted by Tootie Pang
From the comments on the Jalopnik site link... 7/15/19 8:52pm
Patrick, I can solve this mystery for you. And so I shall.
This is an engine test mule for GMPP. And how can I tell that? Because third gen Camaros are available with the garbage engines by the truckload, cheap, and therefore the #1 target market for a $12k drop-in 5.7L V8 to replace the Iron Puke? DING! And they built a million of them. No, literally one million of them - well, 1.5 million to be exact. But I digress.
The other probability is that it’s a suspension test mule. I’m skeptical only because GMPP doesn’t do those for anything but current generations. But it is most definitely a GMPP car. How can I tell you this for certain? Rear passenger bumper. That’s a GM Performance Parts badge. I’d bet the ones on the rockers are too.
Sounds like a Californian who gained experience on the internet. Ohnoes, now I should limit myself to 1975 and older only.
Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
Maybe its a LT2 crate engine test. A 490hp LT2 crate engine sounds like a nice drop-in. Specially once you add headers and a nice intake kit. Probably get 530-540hp crank out of it without ever pulling the valve covers.
495hp in the C8, I believe. They got creative with the accessory drive; I'm waiting for someone to try and swap that into a third gen or other platform.
07-16-2019, 05:49 PM
